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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/18/2007 7:16:48 PM

composer99

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The part about the SiF optional. SiF is mandatory in MWiF, is it not? Therefore the option should be adjusted so that the SiF text is the actual text.

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/18/2007 8:11:34 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

The part about the SiF optional. SiF is mandatory in MWiF, is�it not?�Therefore the option should be adjusted so that the SiF text is the actual text.

Yes.

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/19/2007 3:30:10 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Here is the first page I've done that includes a figure. Graphcis by Patrice.

EDIT: I see about 4 things that I need to change here. Sigh.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 12/19/2007 3:32:54 AM >

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/19/2007 11:05:10 AM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is the first page I've done that includes a figure. Graphcis by Patrice.

Steve, why not add a "4" number in the hex across the all sea hexside, so that you can say also that ZOC don't extend to "4" either ?

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Post #: 34

RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/19/2007 11:56:38 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is the first page I've done that includes a figure. Graphcis by Patrice.

Steve, why not add a "4" number in the hex across the all sea hexside, so that you can say also that ZOC don't extend to "4" either ?

My goal is minimal factual changes. I am messing with the cosmetic elements to make it easier to read (for me as well as for others). And I need to make edits to reflect the use of a computer instead of cardboard and paper. And I need to describe places where the game/rules have been changed. But beyond that, I am not trying to improve on the 'communication' of the document. In the Player's Manaual I will obsess about such things, but for the RAW to RAC document, I'll leave things as they are.

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Post #: 35

RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/19/2007 4:48:03 PM

SamuraiProgrmmr

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The rules page looks great!

Will there be hot links on referred to rules numbers to take you to that rule?

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/19/2007 7:13:44 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer

The rules page looks great!

Will there be hot links on referred to rules numbers to take you to that rule?

Thanks.

No.

What I am working on presently is RAC (Rules as Coded) which is a straight adaptation of RAW (Rules as Written) from the board game. People who are familiar with WIF FE know RAW because that is what they use to play the game. RAC is my attempt to duplicate that document only making factual changes to reflect the move from paper to computer. I am making much greater use of white space and adding color but otherwise I am leaving it as a simple document. It will not be printed, but come as a PDF on the disk. Adobe Acrobat has tools for finding things within a PDF file.

But the RAC is a secondary file/document. MWIF's primary documentation will be the Player's Manual, the outline of which I posted somewhere earlier in this thread (1st and 2nd drafts). But even here I do not intend to set up the hundreds (over a thousand?) hypertext links that this large book warrants. It would simply take too much time. I'll provide a glossary, index, and table of contents - which is pretty standard for published documentation.

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/19/2007 7:43:22 PM

brian brian

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Acrobat seems to be blowing the kerning (right word?) between characters in places, making words runtogether on occasion.

I'm confused about how you are going to replace "dice". Not having any experience with other computer wargames here
maybe adds to this confusion. But it would seem to be a frustrating experience to never know what the dice turned up
and just read the combat results the computer generates for you. This would seem to be true in many 'dice' parts of
the game - naval search dice, air combat dice. I mean when your opponent rolls a 2 in land combat you have a feeling
this is less likely to occur again. And yes, I know, a 2 or a 20 is equally likely on every roll in the game. But in practice
you don't see too many of them during a game. Some people play whole games without even rolling either one, so
one of those numbers, especially in land combat, is fairly memorable. A 1/10 split in naval combat is similar, though
more common.

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Post #: 38

RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/19/2007 9:56:29 PM

bredsjomagnus

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Great work so far with the manual. Nice with all the space. Makes it easier to read.

One question:
Will you be able to check out any charts for say strategic bombing or air to air combat before you decide to do the mission?

/Magnus

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Post #: 39

RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/19/2007 10:41:30 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Acrobat seems to be blowing the kerning (right word?) between characters in places, making words runtogether on occasion.

I'm confused about how you are going to replace "dice". Not having any experience with other computer wargames here
maybe adds to this confusion. But it would seem to be a frustrating experience to never know what the dice turned up
and just read the combat results the computer generates for you. This would seem to be true in many 'dice' parts of
the game - naval search dice, air combat dice. I mean when your opponent rolls a 2 in land combat you have a feeling
this is less likely to occur again. And yes, I know, a 2 or a 20 is equally likely on every roll in the game. But in practice
you don't see too many of them during a game. Some people play whole games without even rolling either one, so
one of those numbers, especially in land combat, is fairly memorable. A 1/10 split in naval combat is similar, though
more common.

Well, what you are seeing is WordPerfect (not a PDF), and the screen shot makes things a little fuzzy, especially the graphic. ADG used full justification, which is what is in effect in the actual document - I cut out 10 pages for testing purposes and the full justification command got lost (hence the ragged right edge).

Also you are at the mercy of how I am showing the page internally (using WordPerfect); this is draft which cuts some corners.

I have decided to go with .75 inch margins on the left and right and .5 inch margins top and bottom. That will leave plenty of room for punching holes in the printout if you want to print and bind your own copy. And by using smaller margins, I have reduced the number of pages to slightly less than 160. But I have all the figures to add yet, so the final page count will go up.

The colors do not print as darkly as I would like. They look fine on the screen but I want the hard copy nice too. I have to change the light brown (probably to rust) and the royal blue (for examples) to a darker blue. I'll see what that looks like next.
-----
There is a player interface setting to see all the dice rolls. That simply shows what the random number is - nothing fancy (e.g., with animated dice rolling around the screen with sound effects of "Baby needs a new pair of shoes!").

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/19/2007 10:44:50 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bredsjomagnus

Great work so far with the manual. Nice with all the space. Makes it easier to read.

One question:
Will you be able to check out any charts for say strategic bombing or air to air combat before you decide to do the mission?

/Magnus

Right now a PDF of the tables et al provided with WIF FE can be called up at any time. MWIF jumps out of the program to execute Adobe Acrobat, but that isn't a big deal. when you close ADobe Acrobat, you're back where you left in MWIF. I would like to improve the charts presentation too, but not for MWIF product 1. It would be nice to have, but not essential.

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/19/2007 11:20:56 PM

Froonp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian
I'm confused about how you are going to replace "dice". Not having any experience with other computer wargames here
maybe adds to this confusion. But it would seem to be a frustrating experience to never know what the dice turned up
and just read the combat results the computer generates for you. This would seem to be true in many 'dice' parts of
the game - naval search dice, air combat dice. I mean when your opponent rolls a 2 in land combat you have a feeling
this is less likely to occur again. And yes, I know, a 2 or a 20 is equally likely on every roll in the game. But in practice
you don't see too many of them during a game. Some people play whole games without even rolling either one, so
one of those numbers, especially in land combat, is fairly memorable. A 1/10 split in naval combat is similar, though
more common.

I'd suggest leaving the dices where they are in the document, as even computer wargames also have dices.
I'd even suggest that MWiF shows the die roll results when it roll dices, either as a simple number, or as an actual dice graphic.

(in reply to brian brian)

Post #: 42

RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/20/2007 1:51:47 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian
I'm confused about how you are going to replace "dice". Not having any experience with other computer wargames here
maybe adds to this confusion. But it would seem to be a frustrating experience to never know what the dice turned up
and just read the combat results the computer generates for you. This would seem to be true in many 'dice' parts of
the game - naval search dice, air combat dice. I mean when your opponent rolls a 2 in land combat you have a feeling
this is less likely to occur again. And yes, I know, a 2 or a 20 is equally likely on every roll in the game. But in practice
you don't see too many of them during a game. Some people play whole games without even rolling either one, so
one of those numbers, especially in land combat, is fairly memorable. A 1/10 split in naval combat is similar, though
more common.

I'd suggest leaving the dices where they are in the document, as even computer wargames also have dices.
I'd even suggest that MWiF shows the die roll results when it roll dices, either as a simple number, or as an actual dice graphic.

Well, I'm old school - I always think of a die as having 6 sides. But WIF using 10-sided dice, which I found confusing when they converted (originally it used 6-sided dice). So when the WIF FE manual mentions dice, I think the average person in the street thinks of the 6-sided dice used in the casinos.

For those reasons, I am going to replace the mention of dice with something about random numbers. Those have the advantage of being base 10 and talking about fractional parts is a lot easier too. And, once again, I prefer accuracy in writing; since MWIF will not use dice, its "No dice!" to dice.

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Post #: 43

RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/20/2007 4:45:32 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Here are a few more screen shots of the RAC document. I've darkened the color for optional rules to a dark red/rust. This looks good on both the screen and the printed page.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 44

RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/20/2007 4:47:42 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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I changed the color for examples to a darer blue. All screen shots by Patrice.

Attachment (1)

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/20/2007 4:49:32 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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3rd and last in series. This continues the discussion from the previous page about supply paths and has another picture.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 46

RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/20/2007 6:02:49 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Finished the first pass on the RAC.

Here is how the Index/Glossary will look. I never understood why they called it a glossary until I did this edit and found that there were definitions embedded in the fine print. I've colored them blue (which is consistent with how I am showing definitional items in the text).

Attachment (1)

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/21/2007 9:58:20 PM

Anendrue

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I like the font and color choices you have selected. If anyone on these forums can comment on the selection of colors for people with color blindness it would be nice to know we have a winner in all respects.

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/22/2007 12:31:15 PM

grisouille_slith

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quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562

I like the font and color choices you have selected. If anyone on these forums can comment on the selection� of colors for people with color blindness it would be nice to know we have a winner in all respects.

I'm agree with abj9562 - colors are well chosen and make the rules more easily to read.

Great job Steve!

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Post #: 49

RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/24/2007 1:57:16 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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A couple more pictures of the RAC document in development.

Attachment (1)

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/24/2007 1:59:46 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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2nd and final post in series. Patrice is doing all the screen shots for the RAC.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 51

RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/24/2007 3:47:21 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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One more screen shot from RAC before I turn my attention elsewhere. These are actual counter graphics, enlarged of course.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 52

RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/24/2007 9:58:34 PM

composer99

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Very nice, and may I say awesome screenshots, Patrice!

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/24/2007 10:49:44 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Here are the 3 latest figures for RAC.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 54

RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/24/2007 10:51:36 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Oops, I got them out of order.

Attachment (1)

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/24/2007 10:57:34 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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3rd and last in the series.

The orange and red are too close in color as shown here, but that won't matter during game play. The position of the indicators is more important. The one on the right is always supply: bright green for primary supply source (HQ after using supply point - optional rule), dark green for secondary (most HQs), yellow for out of supply, and red for isolated. Arrgh, I told Patrice red and it should be yellow!

The position for disorganized is one in from the left and any time that indicator is on it is orange and the unit is disorganized (face-down for those from the old school).

Attachment (1)

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Steve

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/26/2007 8:10:41 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Here is an example we had to rework a little.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 57

RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/26/2007 6:16:16 PM

Anendrue

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

3rd and last in the series.

The orange and red are too close in color as shown here, but that won't matter during game play.

I know this is not the correct forum for this; but, will there be a way to set our own color values within a csv or ini or other type of file?

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/26/2007 7:29:14 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

3rd and last in the series.

The orange and red are too close in color as shown here, but that won't matter during game play.

I know this is not the correct forum for this; but, will there be a way to set our own color values within a csv or ini or other type of file?

I started out with that objective in mind but reality interfered.

For the map, the terrain colors mostly come from bitmaps but I am using a separate program to merge the outlines of the coastal hexes with the terrain for the land portions of each coastal hex. So if you change the terrain bitmaps, none of the coastal hexes will match.

The units colors are accesible for change, but again, there is a problem with bitmapped images. The bitmaps use antialiasing to improve the clarity of the images (a lot). To do that, they have to be drawn against a fixed background. So if you change the color of the US units to a different shade of green, all the naval and air units will use the old one, since that is how their graphic images were created by Rob (at my request). I gave him specific colors for each major power, which he used as the backgrounds when creating the 2800+ bitmaps for the units.

All of this falls into what I consider a WIF design kit, and outside the purpose/goals of MWIF product 1.

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RE: What kind of manual(s) should we ask for? - 12/28/2007 12:12:49 AM

Anendrue

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Thanks for the info.

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Post #: 60