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Barrage Balloons - 11/30/2007 9:25:26 PM   
msieving1


Posts: 526
Joined: 3/23/2007
From: Missouri
Status: offline 		Just wondering, has anyone tried modeling barrage balloons in any mods. I was reading some about the RN attacks on Sumatra in 1944-45, and it seems that Japanese balloons presented a significant problem for the attacking aircraft, forcing them to alter their attack routes and downing several planes. I suppose you could treat them as an AA weapon, with a ceiling of about 6,000 feet or so.
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RE: Barrage Balloons - 12/1/2007 6:50:44 AM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		It would require a device. And it would require some sense of its effect values. Have not figured this out yet.

If 100 aircraft fly into barrage baloons at or below their altitude, how many would abort? How many would be damaged? How man destroyed?


Sid

< Message edited by el cid again -- 12/1/2007 11:55:31 AM >

(in reply to msieving1)
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RE: Barrage Balloons - 12/1/2007 1:12:47 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		Barrage Balloons were organized in squadrons by the UK - 2366 balloons in August 1940 were organized in 52 squadrons = 45.5 each. They were organied in batteries by the US. Interestingly, there were 45 in a battery. The UK crew was 16 - women! The altitude was about 5000 feet in WWII (half that of WWI) - 1524 meters in the UK case.

During a German attack on the Barrage at Dover, 40 balloons were destroyed: so were 6 aircraft. The defense were able to restore 34 of the balloons in one day.

During the blitz, 102 aircraft struck barrage balloons. Of these 66 either crashed or had to make forced landings.

During the later V-1 blitz of London, 1750 balloons were organized to defend the city. They are officially credited with 231 kills!

At Normandy, the US fielded the 32nd Antiaircraft Balloon Battalion (ULA) (Colored)

ULA = Ultra Low Altitude

US Army FM 4-117 is on Barrage Balloons.

Balloons could be tithered to landing craft - typcially 1 per LCT (the British name; US craft were redesignated LSM)



< Message edited by el cid again -- 12/1/2007 1:19:07 PM >

(in reply to msieving1)
Post #: 3
RE: Barrage Balloons - 12/2/2007 9:42:55 AM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		A barrage balloon device needs a range of 1 - because 0 does not work - and in RHS it is interpreted as 500 yards (the average of 0 to 1000 yards).

It needs a soft effect = 0, a anti-armor value = 0, a penetration = 0.

Load cost = 16.

Altitude 5029 feet.

Accuracy = 400.

Effect = 100.

Armor also = 0.

But the wierd feature of the device is you must set Ammo = 1 (PER baloon: a unit with 6 vessels has 6 shots; a land battery has 15 shots). This is because - if a target comes within range - the baloon will no longer be functional. For one thing, the balloon releases a panel so it automatically deflates and desends. For another the cables explosively release - and sometimes have explosives on them (but anyway their weight will tend to bring the aircraft down, otherwise damage it). Each time the ship replenishes - or a land unit resupplies - it will "reload" (reinflate) the aerostats.

< Message edited by el cid again -- 12/2/2007 10:42:59 AM >

(in reply to msieving1)
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RE: Barrage Balloons - 12/2/2007 12:11:36 PM   
Historiker


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Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		The high effect will assure that a hit plane is shot down?

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(in reply to el cid again)
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RE: Barrage Balloons - 12/2/2007 11:49:17 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		Only if the plane is "in range" - which is almost never. And "insure" is an overstatement: a relatively high % will be shot down: it appears on the raw data that the % is awfully high: of 102 aircraft that hit barrage balloon cables, 61 crashed and the rest were damaged (which is far better scoring than AA shells usually achieve). 231 V-1 KILLS are attributed to balloons - just over a single target (London). I set this so that the chance of hitting is high and the chance of fatal damage is high - but the chance of being in range is almost zero - and the chance of being hit at all is zero if you fly at 6000 feet - which oddly is code default bombing height - but the balloons only reach 5029 feet in WWII (half as high as WWI).

(in reply to Historiker)
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RE: Barrage Balloons - 12/4/2007 11:34:47 AM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		It appears that barrage balloons were only forming up in the USA when the war began (1 Nov 41 date of formation in North Carolina for several), but were hastily organized. Originally, there was a plan to equip battalions with Very High Altitude balloons. These could work at 15,000 feet. They required excessive expense and gas and manpower - and were found not to be required (apparently based on British experience). The program then reorganized with Very Low Altitude balloons. These at first were used defensively - notably at San Francisco, Los Angelus, Seattle and Panama. Later they were used offensively - covering landings. It is not clear if any land units served in PTO other than in defense of US territories in the Western Hemisphere? None is listed as having served farther West than Hawaii. But photographic evidence indicates they were flown from LCT/LSM type vessels - and so I have put them in that application. I will also add them to AA defenses of certain ports. A battalion originally had 3 lettered companies - each with 15 VHA balloons - later 18 VLA balloons. Apparently at least one unit reorganized to test four company organization.

The first unit was the

301st Separate Coast Artillery Barrage Balloon Bn - and it reached the Panama Canal Zone on 30 Dec 1941. The unit had been forming up since 1 May 41.

The 302nd served for training in Tyson Tenn - at the Barrage Balloon Training Center.

The 303rd was the first to operate - at Bremerton Washington. It was sent there on 20 Dec - but what day it became operational is not recorded (other than that it was first, before 30 Dec when 301st came up).

The 304th defended Seattle - from 15 Jan 41.

The 305th defended Hawaii - from 16 July 42.

The 306th had undefined CONUS duties.

The 307th defended San Diego - from 28 May 42.

The 308th defended Keyport Washington - from 30 May 42.

The 309th defended Mare Island (San Francisco) from 28 Jun 42.

The 310th defended LA - from 23 Jan 42. It was joined by the 311th one day later.

The 312th had unspecified CONUS duties.

The 313th defended Panama from 15 Jun 42.

There was no 314th.

The 315th to 319th had unspecified or East Coast duties.

The 320th deployed to ETO for many operations - and went to Hawaii on 6 May 1945.









< Message edited by el cid again -- 12/4/2007 11:47:49 AM >

(in reply to msieving1)
Post #: 7
RE: Barrage Balloons - 12/4/2007 1:43:29 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		For the experiment I stood up battalions of 36 barrage ballons per Japanese AA brigade, regiments of 108 per Japanese AA division, and 6 ballons per LSM unit.

Also the US Army Coast Defense Artillery gets 11 battalions:

2 each at Seattle and Los Angelus; 1 each at Pearl Harbor and Panama (disabled at game start they will repair up early);

Plus the 307, 308, 309, 313 and 320 th battalions. 4 of these appear in 1942 at San Francisco, Seattle, San Diego and Panama. 1 appears in 1945 at Seattle - and is the only one assigned to a command other than Western - except in those scenarios where Allied pp permit them to pick the command (PPO, EOS and EEO) this unit is assigned to Pacific Fleet - because it went to Hawaii. It appears at Seattle because that is where it entered the theater - and we know the date it appeared there.

Each battalion has 54 VLA balloons.

(in reply to msieving1)
Post #: 8
RE: Barrage Balloons - 12/5/2007 3:07:45 PM   
saj42


Posts: 1125
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Somerset, England
Status: offline 		Are you sure about balloon use on LCTs?
I've definately seen pictures of them on LSTs (Normandy / Solomons etc)

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(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 9
RE: Barrage Balloons - 12/5/2007 6:57:31 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		A barrage balloon site had photographs of them over LCT/LSMs (LCT is the original UK designation, adopted by the US, later changedd ONLY by the US to LSM) at PTO landing sites. No mention was made of LST usage - although of course it would be possible to rig them. In this case, for technical reasons, the values work better for 6 ship units than they would for two ship units. The chances of flying within 1000 yards of one of six balloons is statistically probable.

(in reply to saj42)
Post #: 10
RE: Barrage Balloons - 12/11/2007 7:41:12 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		Revising CAIO (from CVO) I found British LCTs which I could not find when I did the balloons - I thought perhaps there were none in theater. So I will add a balloon per craft (i.e. 6 per unit of 6 craft) - and this will be part of a courtesy update issued with CAIO. [I am doing a Level 7 AIO in parallel - as it was accidentally lost in updated form - but there is more to it - so it will come out tomorrow - probably - while CAIO releases essentially now - after validation testing and packaging]

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 11
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