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AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues [OUTDATED]

 
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AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues [OUTDATED] - 12/7/2007 4:20:17 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline 		[OUTDATED]

This is for all general questions regarding Air War matters in the Admirals Edition. Don't ask very specific questions, for screenshots, specific unit data, etc. It's not that we don't want you to have them, but we don't want to promise something specific now that's not going to be in the final product.

This thread is for the discussion of Air Team enhancements to the AE Expansion of War in the Pacific.

Please take discussions of the ramifications of logistics modeling and OoB accuracy to the appropriate AE thread. if none is available in the AE sub-forum consider starting one in the main forum for the pontification of any theories not related to the discussion of AE Air War Enhancements.

Thank you.

Edit: I forgot to introduce myself. I am the Air Team Lead and I am wholly unqualified for this position.

My role is that of design and injecting reality into Air Combat. michaelm as you know him here is my Air Team Coder. He is my personal hero and deserves all the credit...

There are others, but I will defer to their judgement as to when they will join this party. When they do I'll spout on about how great they are too.

A quick word on scope.

We had a lot of items we wanted to get in. However if we tried to do EVERYTHING we wanted to we'd NEVER finish. So when I say "OTS" I am saying this was "Outside The Scope" of this project.

SAIEW = SAME AS IT EVER WAS

< Message edited by Daniele -- 11/9/2016 3:31:41 PM >

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 4:20:48 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		That sounds familiar...

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 4:25:49 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline 		Not to be too general, but hows 'uber cap' being addressed? Will Kami's have a better chance of getting through now?

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 4:27:38 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		Ok

1) Will there be some sort of "diminishing returns"-factor for those gigantic airbattles where 300 fighters on each side square off?

2) Can there be some sort of setting along the lines of "push through at all costs" or "limit losses" to give the player some sort of control over his airunits so they dont continue their mission if they are faced with 100s of enemy fighters (ie to avoid ambush-situations where on player has flown in hundreds of fighters to ambush a bombing run)

3) flak? Will it be like in nikmod or stock?

4) Can we add some sort of function where base forces are required for effective operation of a certain type of aircraft? Im thinking of how to get rid of the current situations where US 4E bombers are being operated on a lvl 3 airfield in the NEI by a dutch base force.

5) Stacking limit on aircraft in bases?


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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 4:37:59 PM   
drw61


Posts: 894
Joined: 6/30/2004
From: South Carolina
Status: offline 		1) "configurable resize for squadrons" could you expand on this one?


2) I've got to ask...500 plane types... can we get a listing?

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 4:38:07 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
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From: Pax River, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

Not to be too general, but hows 'uber cap' being addressed? Will Kami's have a better chance of getting through now?


We attacked the UberCAP problem in several ways...Not to get too general

1. Air Attacks are resolved by Raids now rather than by the Target. Stricter Coordination rules combined with player selected altitudes will make it more difficult for Bombers with widely varying performance to be over the target at the same time. Smaller raids.

2. CAP is determined by a %CAP as usual, but not all these A/C will be overhead ALL the time. Only a fraction will be up and in a position to attack. The rest will be either rearming, refueling, or on standby to relieve the Airborne CAP.

3. CAP relies on detection of a raid. The tpye of a/c and the raids speed will give a time til target which will be checked against by the CAP's Rate of climb. This among other things will determine how successful the CAP is getting into a postion to attack effectively. Obviously Radar will help with "First Detection".

4. A/C will be less available. The days of having 100% servicable rates are over. You are now in the true South Pacific.

< Message edited by TheElf -- 12/7/2007 7:36:48 PM >

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 4:38:29 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline 		Can we get a screenshot or description of the new pilot experience types?

Does this mean you cant create ace Japanease pilots by having them strafe a bypassed Dutch base 1000 miles from the front line?

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 4:40:55 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply Elf. Great to finally have the 'uber cap' addressed.


quote:

ORIGINAL: drw61

1) "configurable resize for squadrons" could you expand on this one?


2) I've got to ask...500 plane types... can we get a listing?


Along those same lines, do the Allies finally get some more recon planes?

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 4:47:25 PM   
Panther Bait


Posts: 654
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

3. CAP relies on detection of a raid. The tpye of a/c and the raids speed will give a time til target which will be checked against by the CAP's Rate of climb. This among other things will determine how successful the CAP is getting into a postion to attack effectively. Obviously Radar will help with "First Detection".



Does this mean that the "every CAP squadron attacks every bomber squadron" mechanic has been revised? That alone would have a huge impact on uber-CAP

New Question - I've recently been reading Morrison's books on the Phillipines and Okinawa. It seems the Kamikazes were much more effective near land masses which degraded the RADAR coverage of the fleet. Will RADAR performance be degraded near land, i.e. coastal hexes?

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 4:53:46 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
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From: Pax River, MD
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quote:

1) Will there be some sort of "diminishing returns"-factor for those gigantic airbattles where 300 fighters on each side square off?


Yes. If you manage to create an Air battle that size. Try not to think of Air Battles now as one battle and then it's over. There will be opportunity for several raids against the same Hex with the CAP being able to replenish and relaunch. Air battles should now have a more tactical or localized feel.

quote:

2) Can there be some sort of setting along the lines of "push through at all costs" or "limit losses" to give the player some sort of control over his airunits so they dont continue their mission if they are faced with 100s of enemy fighters (ie to avoid ambush-situations where on player has flown in hundreds of fighters to ambush a bombing run)


No, but we did address this issue with stricter coordination checks. Failed Escort Rendevous and and MORALE will play a part in the decision to continue to the target.

quote:

3) flak? Will it be like in nikmod or stock?

The air team did not touch flak except in Naval TFs. Attacks on ships are vulnerable only to the AAA from the quadrant the A/C is approaching.

quote:

4) Can we add some sort of function where base forces are required for effective operation of a certain type of aircraft? Im thinking of how to get rid of the current situations where US 4E bombers are being operated on a lvl 3 airfield in the NEI by a dutch base force.


Light Bombers, A subset of Level Bombers, are the only LBA that can fully operate from level 3 AFs





< Message edited by TheElf -- 12/9/2007 12:42:35 AM >

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 4:55:41 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison
quote:


Can we get a screenshot or description of the new pilot experience types?


Nope. Read my first post.

quote:

Does this mean you can't create ace Japanease pilots by having them strafe a bypassed Dutch base 1000 miles from the front line?

You better believe it. But you Can create some Ace Japanese Strafers.

Welcome to the South Pacific.





< Message edited by TheElf -- 12/7/2007 4:56:20 PM >

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 4:56:52 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
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From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

Thanks for the reply Elf. Great to finally have the 'uber cap' addressed.


quote:

ORIGINAL: drw61

1) "configurable resize for squadrons" could you expand on this one?


2) I've got to ask...500 plane types... can we get a listing?


Along those same lines, do the Allies finally get some more recon planes?


Yes. They get Tac Recon (a new class) capable of combat, and new camera devices.

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 4:57:47 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		Has there been any alteration of the air search mechanism to more accurately reflect the directional nature of an air search by a single a/c (does a single PBY still effectively look in every hex within a radius equivalent to its range?)?

Is there any ability to air search and hence air strike naval targets at night (without the assistance of a friendly submarine)?

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 4:59:36 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Good question on air search Spence. Intrigued by this also..........

Also can you change weapon loadouts a la BTR?

Can you list the different areas of pilot experience?

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:02:50 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
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From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Nope. Read my first post.



What? We have to read? I thought we only had to ask

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:03:51 PM   
Charbroiled


Posts: 1181
Joined: 10/15/2004
From: Oregon
Status: offline 		1. Are pilots transferable between units?

2. Do pilots still rotate "home" after an extended period, and if so, do the go back to the same type of unit when rotated back (i.e. fighter pilot to fighter units).

3. Can specific types of ships be targeted or prioritized for targeting (i.e. attacking the landing TF as opposed to hitting the carrier TF with 200 plane CAP).

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:04:43 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: drw61

quote:

1) "configurable resize for squadrons" could you expand on this one?


As the war progresses Air units Max Strength changes. An example would be USN fighter Squadron going from 18 to 27 to 36. These changes are date-based and can be accepted or declined by the player.

quote:

2) I've got to ask...500 plane types... can we get a listing?


No, maybe at a later date. Just rest assured we are covering all the bases...


< Message edited by TheElf -- 12/7/2007 5:09:37 PM >

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:08:43 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
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From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Has there been any alteration of the air search mechanism to more accurately reflect the directional nature of an air search by a single a/c (does a single PBY still effectively look in every hex within a radius equivalent to its range?)?

Is there any ability to air search and hence air strike naval targets at night (without the assistance of a friendly submarine)?


Yes and yes, but there are still no player-selectable directions.

Air search is affected at night by moonlight. Strikes may launch and be successful under higher light levels.

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:10:25 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Speedy

quote:

Also can you change weapon loadouts a la BTR?


No.

quote:

Can you list the different areas of pilot experience?

• Air attack
• Air defensive
• Naval bombing
• Naval torpedo
• Naval search
• Recon
• ASW
• Transport
• Ground bombing
• Low level naval bombing
• Low level ground bombing
• Strafe


< Message edited by TheElf -- 12/7/2007 5:11:22 PM >

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:11:54 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Damn, Elf, you're getting some good questions!  Good answers so far, too. 

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:14:25 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
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From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: Charbroiled

quote:

1. Are pilots transferable between units?


Not Specifically, but they are transferable between pools. Once in another pool they may be redrawn to other units.

quote:

2. Do pilots still rotate "home" after an extended period, and if so, do the go back to the same type of unit when rotated back (i.e. fighter pilot to fighter units).

Yes and yes. Once a fighter pilot always a fighter pilot right? (sorry personal joke...)

You can change one type to another, but only by upgrading an Air unit to a new type (ie. Fighter to DB). Once you do though your pilots Ground attack skill will be that of a fighter pilot...not good.

quote:

3. Can specific types of ships be targeted or prioritized for targeting (i.e. attacking the landing TF as opposed to hitting the carrier TF with 200 plane CAP).


No.



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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:14:56 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
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From: Pax River, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Damn, Elf, you're getting some good questions! Good answers so far, too.

Thanks

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:16:23 PM   
Yakface


Posts: 846
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		How is air-recon being handled?  Do the Allies still get the advantage of seeing what aircraft the Japanese have at a base whereas the Japanese only see what was there before the Allied order phase?

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:16:26 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Will there be any way to select target types for your various bombers??  It is really frustrating to send my Dutch and other early war LB on naval attack to have 250lb bombs bounce off BB's when there are plenty of AP/AK around that I truly want to sink.

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:21:01 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface

How is air-recon being handled? Do the Allies still get the advantage of seeing what aircraft the Japanese have at a base whereas the Japanese only see what was there before the Allied order phase?


Not anymore. “Air balance” is limited to current player.

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:22:26 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Will there be any way to select target types for your various bombers?? It is really frustrating to send my Dutch and other early war LB on naval attack to have 250lb bombs bounce off BB's when there are plenty of AP/AK around that I truly want to sink.


No. This would be an unrealistic control for an operational commander. Targets are still selected by mission type, not target type.

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:24:39 PM   
drw61


Posts: 894
Joined: 6/30/2004
From: South Carolina
Status: offline 		Will production of allied aircraft be on the map (disabled) and then start building up production on the date it is available.  (I hate it that on 11/43 I automatically have 250 SB2C Helldivers in production)

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:37:54 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline
quote:

Air search is affected at night by moonlight. Strikes may launch and be successful under higher light levels.



Does an airborne surface search radar (such as the ASV1 on the PV-1 Ventura)enhance "light levels" for the purposes of night search and attack?

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:39:15 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: drw61

Will production of allied aircraft be on the map (disabled) and then start building up production on the date it is available. (I hate it that on 11/43 I automatically have 250 SB2C Helldivers in production)


I'll let my OoB Maven answer that when he is ready.

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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/7/2007 5:39:45 PM   
Hipper

 

Posts: 254
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Status: offline 		Hi elf

do the brits get a functioning air to surface radar for their swordfishes - will it make a difference to night searches !

by the way Yipee !!!

cheers

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