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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/31/2009 4:13:35 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku

Will in AE aircraft continue to attack already sunken or doomed ships as they did in stock WITP? It is very frustrating when 50 aircraft attack some sunken CV (unable to find target) while there are undamaged cruisers or even battleships ignored. That frustrated me very, very often



I would support this! It´s annoying to see 80% of a strike doing nothing because they try to attack a sunken ship...

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Post #: 1081
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/31/2009 4:17:36 PM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		But! The sunken ship maybe not sunk already. I think planes tend to search for another target when target is say 80% damaged. But I was able to save such ship once I think. 

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Post #: 1082
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/31/2009 4:24:46 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

But! The sunken ship maybe not sunk already. I think planes tend to search for another target when target is say 80% damaged. But I was able to save such ship once I think. 



no! When see ship x in the replay and you get the message 4xbetty trying to bomb ship x and nothing happens then the ship is sunk. And you may end up seeing most of your strike trying to attack sunken CV when there are still a dozen cruisers in the TF...

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Post #: 1083
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/31/2009 4:27:57 PM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		in AE? or in WITP?
I have seen few times planes hitting the same target after few more havent find the target. Also those ships became target for subsequent strike. (I am talking about WITP)


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Post #: 1084
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/31/2009 4:43:34 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
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From: Austria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

in AE? or in WITP?
I have seen few times planes hitting the same target after few more havent find the target. Also those ships became target for subsequent strike. (I am talking about WITP)




in WITP. And what you describe is something I haven´t seen a single time in 5.000+ turns of witp.

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Post #: 1085
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/31/2009 4:46:27 PM   
CV Zuikaku

 

Posts: 442
Joined: 12/18/2008
From: Legrad, Croatia
Status: offline 		In WITP I'we seen dozens of aircrafts attacking ships which have suffered magazine explosion, and totally ignoring the rest of undamaged ships! It's a madness!

< Message edited by CV Zuikaku -- 1/31/2009 4:49:52 PM >

(in reply to Barb)
Post #: 1086
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/31/2009 9:30:40 PM   
Dili

 

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quote:

no! When see ship x in the replay and you get the message 4xbetty trying to bomb ship x and nothing happens then the ship is sunk. And you may end up seeing most of your strike trying to attack sunken CV when there are still a dozen cruisers in the TF...


There are several instances IRL that a target already hit is a magnet for bombs. There are also several instances that air groups don't find a target while in witp they seem always to find them.

(in reply to CV Zuikaku)
Post #: 1087
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/31/2009 9:36:44 PM   
CV Zuikaku

 

Posts: 442
Joined: 12/18/2008
From: Legrad, Croatia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

quote:

no! When see ship x in the replay and you get the message 4xbetty trying to bomb ship x and nothing happens then the ship is sunk. And you may end up seeing most of your strike trying to attack sunken CV when there are still a dozen cruisers in the TF...


There are several instances IRL that a target already hit is a magnet for bombs. There are also several instances that air groups don't find a target while in witp they seem always to find them.


Yes, but not after magazines exploded...
Yes, but not after the ship sinks... Here we have situation when the first strike sinks... eg. Zuikaku, and then second strike circle arround the TF trying to find Zuikaku and leaving other ships intact. That is not very likely to happen IRL...

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 1088
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/31/2009 9:39:21 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		I think the point is that the ship may be sunk in that the game has executed the attack that did the critical damage, but in effect the process is moelling that planes are preallocated to targets before any attacks are evaluated. I know they aren't in practice, but that is the process they are moddelling. In RL, the planes do not form up in neat groups of 4, wait for the previous group to attack, do an instant and complete damage evaluation, then pick the new target as soon as the primary takes 86.87657%  damage!. Also, even magazine explosions take 2 mins or so to sink a ship. Planes need to attack as quickly as possible if they are not to take higher losses. Normal sinkings can take hours after the attack and the later pilots dont know it has sunk. It is just the game and you do.
Think of the entire attack as nearly simultaneous, but you get to see the 'post strike evaluation' live as the bombs are delivered...
Please do not make air attacks any more clinical! Confusion and chaos are the norm.

< Message edited by HMSWarspite -- 1/31/2009 9:42:40 PM >

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(in reply to CV Zuikaku)
Post #: 1089
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/31/2009 10:50:14 PM   
CV Zuikaku

 

Posts: 442
Joined: 12/18/2008
From: Legrad, Croatia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HMSWarspite

I think the point is that the ship may be sunk in that the game has executed the attack that did the critical damage, but in effect the process is moelling that planes are preallocated to targets before any attacks are evaluated. I know they aren't in practice, but that is the process they are moddelling. In RL, the planes do not form up in neat groups of 4, wait for the previous group to attack, do an instant and complete damage evaluation, then pick the new target as soon as the primary takes 86.87657%  damage!. Also, even magazine explosions take 2 mins or so to sink a ship. Planes need to attack as quickly as possible if they are not to take higher losses. Normal sinkings can take hours after the attack and the later pilots dont know it has sunk. It is just the game and you do.
Think of the entire attack as nearly simultaneous, but you get to see the 'post strike evaluation' live as the bombs are delivered...
Please do not make air attacks any more clinical! Confusion and chaos are the norm.


Yes, that is a good point, but second strike sometimes comes in a few minutes and sometimes after 30 mins or an hour...
So, I am OK with first strike bombing the hell out of doomed ship, but second strike woul'd surely realize that ship is sunk

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Post #: 1090
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/31/2009 11:05:12 PM   
herwin

 

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From: Sunderland, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CV Zuikaku


quote:

ORIGINAL: HMSWarspite

I think the point is that the ship may be sunk in that the game has executed the attack that did the critical damage, but in effect the process is moelling that planes are preallocated to targets before any attacks are evaluated. I know they aren't in practice, but that is the process they are moddelling. In RL, the planes do not form up in neat groups of 4, wait for the previous group to attack, do an instant and complete damage evaluation, then pick the new target as soon as the primary takes 86.87657%  damage!. Also, even magazine explosions take 2 mins or so to sink a ship. Planes need to attack as quickly as possible if they are not to take higher losses. Normal sinkings can take hours after the attack and the later pilots dont know it has sunk. It is just the game and you do.
Think of the entire attack as nearly simultaneous, but you get to see the 'post strike evaluation' live as the bombs are delivered...
Please do not make air attacks any more clinical! Confusion and chaos are the norm.


Yes, that is a good point, but second strike sometimes comes in a few minutes and sometimes after 30 mins or an hour...
So, I am OK with first strike bombing the hell out of doomed ship, but second strike woul'd surely realize that ship is sunk


It's the game engine working as designed. I understand it's actually a rather crude line-up both sides and blast away system, and target reallocation seems to be something of an afterthought, despite that being the primary function of platoon leaders, warship division commanders, and air group commanders.

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(in reply to CV Zuikaku)
Post #: 1091
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/1/2009 12:34:25 AM   
Cathartes

 

Posts: 2155
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quote:

Will the Allied aircraft inventory include any of the many planes that never made it overseas? (The Buccaneer comes to mind)..
Just wondering if CONUS might be defendable with them, at player option.


quote:

Or the Skypirate.


No on both, but you could mod/add 'em yourself.

(in reply to CV Zuikaku)
Post #: 1092
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/3/2009 6:51:52 PM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		Is there a cap on total number of pilots as in Witp? I think that the total number is 20,000 in Witp, then you have the experanced pilots start to vanish. Is this still the case?

Thanks

(in reply to Cathartes)
Post #: 1093
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/3/2009 7:51:49 PM   
Cathartes

 

Posts: 2155
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		Been told that this won't be a problem in AE.

(in reply to NormS3)
Post #: 1094
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/3/2009 8:43:02 PM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		Had guessed as much due to increased number of aircraft, but thanks for putting my mind at ease!

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Post #: 1095
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/3/2009 9:51:58 PM   
Dili

 

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quote:

Yes, but not after magazines exploded...
Yes, but not after the ship sinks... Here we have situation when the first strike sinks... eg. Zuikaku, and then second strike circle arround the TF trying to find Zuikaku and leaving other ships intact. That is not very likely to happen IRL...


True the game should say the target is vanished. But then they might just turn back. One thing that happens in air-naval combat is that a Taskforces might just broke in small sets of ships that try to maneuver in many directions.


(in reply to NormS3)
Post #: 1096
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/3/2009 11:19:53 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Norm3

Had guessed as much due to increased number of aircraft, but thanks for putting my mind at ease!


Actually, AE will probably have LESS in the long run. In WitP once an air unit was in the game, it was in the game. In AE a lot of air units leave the game. Some leave and come back, some leave and other units come in, and some just leave. So over all in AE you "should" have fewer air units total than in WitP.

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Post #: 1097
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/3/2009 11:34:11 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
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quote:

Actually, AE will probably have LESS in the long run. In WitP once an air unit was in the game, it was in the game. In AE a lot of air units leave the game. Some leave and come back, some leave and other units come in, and some just leave. So over all in AE you "should" have fewer air units total than in WitP.


Is there any way to obviate that a player just waste(meaning: accepting much more casualities) in combat an unit that is retiring? Like for example making that it's pilots return to the database and that way it is "wasting" valuable pilots having that behaviour.

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 1098
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/4/2009 1:32:27 AM   
Cathartes

 

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quote:

Is there any way to obviate that a player just waste(meaning: accepting much more casualities) in combat an unit that is retiring? Like for example making that it's pilots return to the database and that way it is "wasting" valuable pilots having that behaviour.

Based on my reading of the manaul, a player can choose to thrash an air unit that is scheduled for withdrawal, but then that player has fewer airframes and pilots that get returned to the pools when that unit is retired.

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 1099
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/4/2009 2:09:33 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Thx

(in reply to Cathartes)
Post #: 1100
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/4/2009 12:18:18 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Will the Allied aircraft inventory include any of the many planes that never made it overseas? (The Buccaneer comes to mind)..
Just wondering if CONUS might be defendable with them, at player option.


Am I on somebodies' green button list??


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Post #: 1101
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/4/2009 4:14:42 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		Did someone hear something?

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Post #: 1102
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/4/2009 6:05:36 PM   
Cathartes

 

Posts: 2155
Joined: 1/5/2001
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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Will the Allied aircraft inventory include any of the many planes that never made it overseas? (The Buccaneer comes to mind)..
Just wondering if CONUS might be defendable with them, at player option.


Am I on somebodies' green button list??


You were not ignored. See post #1092.

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Post #: 1103
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/4/2009 6:17:53 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cathartes


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Will the Allied aircraft inventory include any of the many planes that never made it overseas? (The Buccaneer comes to mind)..
Just wondering if CONUS might be defendable with them, at player option.


Am I on somebodies' green button list??


You were not ignored. See post #1092.



Thank you....

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Post #: 1104
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/5/2009 8:09:44 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		A question on pilot fatigue: in WITP every pilot accumulated 1 point of fatigue for 1 hex he was flying, no matter if transfer, attacks or whatever. How will this be treated in AE when a hex is now 40 miles instead of 60? Still with 1 point of fatigue? Would mean that an AE pilot would accumulate 1/3 more fatigue than a WITP pilot for the same distance flown. I hope not.

thx

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Post #: 1105
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/13/2009 4:15:30 PM   
traskott


Posts: 1546
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline 		I don't  know if this question comes here or not  :

Asumming there are 500 types of aircraft models in AE, could we ADD more types (and graphics ) of planes ?

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Post #: 1106
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/13/2009 4:33:55 PM   
timtom


Posts: 2358
Joined: 1/29/2003
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline 		Right spot okay. There's 999 aircraft slots in AE. I'll leave it to your good self to do the math

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Post #: 1107
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/13/2009 4:38:39 PM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		(Eyes fall out, as brain expands at possibilities)

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Post #: 1108
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/13/2009 4:47:29 PM   
traskott


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From: Valladolid, Spain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: timtom

Right spot okay. There's 999 aircraft slots in AE. I'll leave it to your good self to do the math


Hummm.....

I hope they'll be easy editable.

Thank you

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Post #: 1109
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 2/13/2009 5:27:00 PM   
drw61


Posts: 894
Joined: 6/30/2004
From: South Carolina
Status: offline 		Could we get a look at the some of the new plane graphics?  I would love to see the different Hurricane types and the observation (O-47, O-49) types. 
Thanks

(in reply to traskott)
Post #: 1110
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