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RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues

 
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RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 9/23/2009 6:01:09 AM   
erstad

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

Now a very stupid question: How do you guys manage to get these quotes in such a nice white rectangle?
AvG


If you just want to quote part of a post, highlight the text, copy it to the clipboard and select reply. The highlighted text will apear in a quote box in the new posting.

Chez



Even easier - just highlight and hit "reply". No need to copy to clipboard (at least for me)

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 1681
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 9/23/2009 9:19:57 AM   
AvG

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 5/4/2005
From: The Netherlands
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quote:

Even easier - just highlight and hit "reply". No need to copy to clipboard (at least for me)


Will it work??

Check via preview.

And yes, it works. Even for me.
Thanks a lot.

AvG

(in reply to erstad)
Post #: 1682
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 9/23/2009 3:56:53 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
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You can also click on the 'quote' button in the row of buttons above the text box when you are typing in your message. This is useful when you paste information that you want to be set off if the white background quote-box.

(in reply to AvG)
Post #: 1683
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 9/24/2009 6:36:04 PM   
Montbrun


Posts: 1498
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline
v1084 - Unit 4293 - 34th BG / HQ Sqn - This unit has no W/D requirement.

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 1684
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 9/27/2009 3:46:34 AM   
drw61


Posts: 894
Joined: 6/30/2004
From: South Carolina
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On the Air Unit Information screen just above the commander is a listing of major skills such as Air, Defense, Strafing... It looks to me that these are the air commander skills and that it is always "None" unless the commander is also one of the pilots. Is this correct or will the major skills eventually fill in for all commanders? Also, in what ways do these skills help the air unit?

(in reply to Montbrun)
Post #: 1685
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 9/27/2009 5:26:50 AM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
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Wrong thread, deleted.

< Message edited by Buck Beach -- 9/27/2009 5:32:40 AM >

(in reply to drw61)
Post #: 1686
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 9/27/2009 6:03:35 PM   
guctony


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Simple question

I started a new PBEM second Scenario . Something confuses me while I try to plan a radical change in figter production. I am not sure to invest heavily on N1K1 -George. It seem a good plane but how about how many air groups I can convert to N1K1 if I spend alot of R&D for it .
On Air group reinforcement screen there is four group. Where can find that how many air groups will I be able to convert.

I cannot find it in Witpstaff or in scenario editor.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

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(in reply to Buck Beach)
Post #: 1687
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 9/28/2009 4:29:16 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
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quote:

Simple question

I started a new PBEM second Scenario . Something confuses me while I try to plan a radical change in figter production. I am not sure to invest heavily on N1K1 -George. It seem a good plane but how about how many air groups I can convert to N1K1 if I spend alot of R&D for it .
On Air group reinforcement screen there is four group. Where can find that how many air groups will I be able to convert.

I cannot find it in Witpstaff or in scenario editor.
Sorry for the spam in this thread ** cough *** WitpTracker-AE -- ahows direct upgrades with PDU OFF and also calculates those that are allowed with PDU ON.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 9/28/2009 4:31:39 AM >


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(in reply to guctony)
Post #: 1688
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 9/28/2009 6:46:29 AM   
Montbrun


Posts: 1498
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From: Raleigh, NC, USA
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There appears to be 2 x WCDR R.N. Batesons...




Attachment (1)

(in reply to erstad)
Post #: 1689
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 9/30/2009 7:42:03 AM   
Pascal_slith


Posts: 1651
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No RNZAF Hudsons were on Fiji at the beginning of the war.

Here is the quote from the Official History:

"On the day Japan entered the war, the RNZAF's first-line aircraft comprised 36 Hudsons, 35 Vincents, and 2 Singapore flying boats. Of these, six Vincents and the Singapores were in Fiji. Second-line aircraft, mostly used by the training organisation and available for operational use in emergency, comprised the following:

62 Harvards
46 Hinds
143 Oxfords
26 Vildebeestes
30 Gordons
13 Vincents
221 Tiger Moths
7 Multi-engined civil types (including 3 in Fiji)
20 Miscellaneous light aircraft (including 1 in Fiji)
1 Walrus amphibian

Personnel strength on the same date was 10,500 in New Zealand and 450 in Fiji."



Later in the Chapter there is a situation for 20 February 1942. I quote:

"On 20 February the operational strength of the RNZAF was: No. 1 GR Squadron stationed at Whenuapai, with 8 + 4 Hudsons;1 No. 2 GR Squadron at Nelson with 8 + 3 Hudsons; No. 3 GR Squadron at Harewood with 10 + 5 Vincents; No. 7 GR Squadron, which had recently been formed at Waipapakauri, with 12 + 6 Vincents; No. 4 GR Squadron at Nandi, Fiji, with 6 + 3 Hudsons; No. 5 Squadron, also in Fiji, with 4 + 2 Vincents. In addition No. 5 Squadron had three of the Short Singapore flying boats which had been flown out from Malaya at the end of 1941.2 These were old and in poor condition, but could be used for operations if required. This gave a total first-line aircraft strength of 32 Hudsons and 39 Vincents.

The training organisation had the following second-line aircraft which could be available in case of emergency: 4 Vincents, 61 Oxfords, 45 Harvards, 9 Fairey Gordons and 15 Hawker Hinds, giving a total of 134."


The Hudsons were sent to Fiji in early February.

"The most vital link in the defensive chain was Fiji. If the enemy established himself there he could dominate the whole of the South Pacific and would be in a position to launch an attack against New Zealand. New Zealand had done what it could to reinforce the colony by sending all its anti-aircraft artillery and a fair proportion of the available Hudsons, but the defences in the first few weeks of 1942 were much too weak to withstand a major attack.

Early in February a detachment of six Hudsons from No. 2 Squadron was sent to Fiji temporarily to strengthen the air defences in the face of what appeared to be an imminent threat of attack. They arrived on 11 February and were attached to No. 4 Squadron at Nandi."



URL: http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2AirF-c9.html and http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2AirF-c10.html






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So much WitP and so little time to play.... :-(


(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 1690
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 10/2/2009 12:24:18 AM   
faraonej

 

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OK, I've noticed that the Wirraway is now classified as a LB vice FB as it was in WITP...  This leaves the Aussies without ANY fightersupport whatsoever until the Boomerang shows up...

Was this the error I believe it to be, or do I need to be enlightened?  (I did find the editor, thanks!)

Luv the game so far -- cheers,
JF

(in reply to Pascal_slith)
Post #: 1691
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 10/2/2009 2:43:52 AM   
TheElf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: faraonej

OK, I've noticed that the Wirraway is now classified as a LB vice FB as it was in WITP...  This leaves the Aussies without ANY fightersupport whatsoever until the Boomerang shows up...

Was this the error I believe it to be, or do I need to be enlightened?  (I did find the editor, thanks!)

Luv the game so far -- cheers,
JF


Not an error.

_____________________________

IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES



(in reply to faraonej)
Post #: 1692
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 10/2/2009 3:22:05 AM   
faraonej

 

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OK... so lacking enlightenment, I sought my own...

"opondetta, Papua, 1942-12-12. Two RAAF Wirraway aircraft stand on the grass shortly after landing close together at Popondetta airstrip. Before Wirraway A2-103 (left) had come to a complete stop, its pilot, Pilot Officer (PO) J. S. Archer, had leapt from the aircraft and run across to the Control Tent where he had found the Control Officer talking to NX34655 Captain Alan Oliver Watson, Dental Officer with the 2/4th Field Ambulance. Puffing hard, PO Archer exclaimed excitedly, 'Sir, sir, I think I've shot down a Zero!' To this the Control Officer replied, 'Don't be silly, Archer, Wirraways can't shoot down Zeros.' 'Well, sir,' continued Archer, 'I went in to look at the wreck off Gona and I saw this thing in front of me and it had red spots on it, so I gave it a burst and it appeared to fall into the sea.' Within a few minutes, a dozen telephone calls from observers all around the Gona area confirmed Archer's story. While on a tactical reconnaissance mission over the Japanese ship wrecked in the sea off Gona, Archer and his observer, Sergeant J.F. Coulston, had sighted the Zero 1,000 feet below. After diving on the Japanese aircraft, they had fired a long burst into it with the Wirraway's two Vickers .303 machine guns, causing the Zero to crash into the sea. Archer was later awarded the DFC for his exploit. (Donor A. Watson)"  from http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-air-support/ww2-allied/wirraway.htm

and


(Photo source unknown. Please contact us if you deserve credit.)
History: Although the Wirraway (an Aboriginal word meaning "Challenger") was designated as the Royal Australian Air Force’s (RAAF) advanced trainer during World War Two, its usefulness as a makeshift frontline fighter was secured on 26 December 1942 when a converted example shot down a Japanese navy A6M 'Zero-Sen' fighter. Wirraways saw convoy duty from Darwin, in Malaya, New Britain and New Guinea until mid-1943.



Rapidly becoming a Wirraway Fanboy,

JF

PS -- "Get outta the CATWALK!!!!!"



(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 1693
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 10/4/2009 12:08:22 AM   
sspahr

 

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The USAAF has several fighters/fighter-bombersequipped with cameras fro tac recon work (the F-6D, P-39N2, etc.) but they show up as fighter or fighter-bomber units in the game, so they don't have a recon mission option.  Does the camera actually do any good for raising detection levels if they're flying non-recon missions?

(in reply to faraonej)
Post #: 1694
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 10/4/2009 12:15:20 AM   
sspahr

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 7/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: faraonej

OK, I've noticed that the Wirraway is now classified as a LB vice FB as it was in WITP...  This leaves the Aussies without ANY fightersupport whatsoever until the Boomerang shows up...

Was this the error I believe it to be, or do I need to be enlightened?  (I did find the editor, thanks!)

Luv the game so far -- cheers,
JF



The Aussies get three squadrons of P-40s and three of Spitfires in 1942 before the Boomerang starts to arrive. The Boomerang was actually used as a FAC and close air support aircraft, rather than as a fighter

(in reply to faraonej)
Post #: 1695
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 10/4/2009 12:48:11 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sspahr

The USAAF has several fighters/fighter-bombersequipped with cameras fro tac recon work (the F-6D, P-39N2, etc.) but they show up as fighter or fighter-bomber units in the game, so they don't have a recon mission option.  Does the camera actually do any good for raising detection levels if they're flying non-recon missions?



I had the same problem and got answers to it in an earlier thread. The deal is this: the code is written so that if the camera device has an effect > 0 then the air unit will have a Recon mission option. In the original release the cameras in those fighters and fighter-bombers had effect = 0. This was fixed in the patch.

If you install the patch and upgrade the data stuff when you then load your save game it should fix the problem. It did for me.

(in reply to sspahr)
Post #: 1696
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 10/4/2009 1:16:48 AM   
sspahr

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 7/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I had the same problem and got answers to it in an earlier thread. The deal is this: the code is written so that if the camera device has an effect > 0 then the air unit will have a Recon mission option. In the original release the cameras in those fighters and fighter-bombers had effect = 0. This was fixed in the patch.

If you install the patch and upgrade the data stuff when you then load your save game it should fix the problem. It did for me.


Thanks, I'll try that.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 1697
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 10/6/2009 12:13:28 AM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline
When an airgroup upgrades to a different plane type, are all the old planes suppose to return to the pool?

I have noticed a number of times where they do not - but not always. At first I thought it might be a supply issue similar to being able to disband a unit an have the planes return to the pool. But I just upgraded a Marine VMSB unit from one type of dive bomber to another and the old type *did not* return to the pool. The unit was at San Diego with over 100k supplies.

So is this intended? Do they show up later? Or is this a bug?

Thanks in advance.

Chad

(in reply to sspahr)
Post #: 1698
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 10/6/2009 2:02:08 AM   
erstad

 

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Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

I have noticed a number of times where they do not - but not always. At first I thought it might be a supply issue similar to being able to disband a unit an have the planes return to the pool. But I just upgraded a Marine VMSB unit from one type of dive bomber to another and the old type *did not* return to the pool. The unit was at San Diego with over 100k supplies.

Chad


There can be a delay.

(in reply to Chad Harrison)
Post #: 1699
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 10/6/2009 4:42:54 AM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

There can be a delay.



Variable upon . . . ? But should they all arrive? Reason I ask is I want to double check in my game that its WAD.

Thanks for the reply.

Chad

(in reply to erstad)
Post #: 1700
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 10/6/2009 11:46:34 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: faraonej
Although the Wirraway (an Aboriginal word meaning "Challenger") was designated as the Royal Australian Air Force’s (RAAF) advanced trainer during World War Two, its usefulness as a makeshift frontline fighter was secured on 26 December 1942 when a converted example shot down a Japanese navy A6M 'Zero-Sen' fighter. Wirraways saw convoy duty from Darwin, in Malaya, New Britain and New Guinea until mid-1943.




Could you find us at least one more example?

Dauntless' shot down Zero's too and B-17's shot them down as well...

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(in reply to faraonej)
Post #: 1701
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 10/6/2009 12:52:34 PM   
tanjman


Posts: 717
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: Griffin, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison


quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

There can be a delay.



Variable upon . . . ? But should they all arrive? Reason I ask is I want to double check in my game that its WAD.

Thanks for the reply.

Chad


From WitP AE Manual (EBook version), page 258, last paragraph:

The number of old aircraft being replaced in the group will be added back to the Aircraft Replacement pool, but they will slowly reappear with a delay of up to 7 days. A message will appear in the player’s Operations Report when they arrive. This is an attempt to represent the time required to repair and service the old aircraft, and to make them combat ready to be sent out as replacements.


_____________________________

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(in reply to Chad Harrison)
Post #: 1702
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 10/6/2009 2:40:56 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tanjman

The number of old aircraft being replaced in the group will be added back to the Aircraft Replacement pool, but they will slowly reappear with a delay of up to 7 days. A message will appear in the player’s Operations Report when they arrive. This is an attempt to represent the time required to repair and service the old aircraft, and to make them combat ready to be sent out as replacements.



Well by golly, someone is better at retaining information when they read through the manual than I am

Thanks for the reply and clarification.

Chad

(in reply to tanjman)
Post #: 1703
RE: Allied A/C prodcution rates - 10/6/2009 5:27:47 PM   
timtom


Posts: 2358
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From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline
General note: When reporting issues, please state which scenario the issue pertains to. Thank you. And keep 'em coming.

quote:

ORIGINAL: langleyCV1

In Scen 6 or 9 why is 488 Squadron still upgradeing to Dutch Hurricanes!

MJT


Clearly someone's been asleep on the job ;).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Splinterhead

AE was designed by committee and the air team, according to Tim-Tom, decided to make Dutch purchased aircraft Dutch aircraft even if most were IRL delivered elsewhere, because they could have wound up in Dutch service.


Actually it's the other way round :) - apologies if I gave the wrong impression.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roko

what happend with 4th Kokutai ( g4m ) in scenario 1 & 6 ?
i cant find it



The Takao Kokutai K-1 Hikotai detachment becomes 4th Kokutai. This isn't exactly what happened - 4th Ku's Hikotai was put together from two Buntai's of the Takao Ku and one from the Chitose Ku's attack Hikotai.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tallyman662

Air Team,

I have a question regarding the withdrawal versus disband function for some US air groups. I noted that some airgroups have both the withdrawal and disband option as part of their mandatory withdrawal date process. These are fine as is. There are some groups though that have only a disband option as part of their mandatory withdrawal process. Since you lose planes and pilots when you disband these groups, could the air team discuss the rationale between the two different types of mandatory withdrawal? The only reason I can think of with this variance is that we don't want thos pilots and planes to go back into the pool and still maintain historical accuracy of air groups in the US. Is there any thought about changing either the ability to withdraw or perhaps removing the airgroups as not relevant to the game? Appreciate your thoughts on this issue.

Pete


From an older thread ->

...underpinning the OOB design is a set of methodological guidelines which serves as rules-of-thumb when tackling the multitude of design decisions involved. Not only does this mean that the wheel doesn't have to be reinvented with every new unit, but it also ensures that there's one set of rules is applied to all, and hopefully leads to a structured design for which at least plausible defense can be mounted.

So, with the "useless" WC units, how does this methodology go? Well, the first question is whether we're dealing with a combat- or combat-support unit operating in a manner explicitly modelled in the game on-map. In the case of the "useless" units, the answer is yes - these were combat units either fully formed or in the process of forming, temporarily assigned to the defense of the US western seaboard at the outbreak of war. Once the press realised that invasion wasn't imminent, these units reverted to full-time training and/or transferred east.

The basic contention that these units are "useless" begs the question "to whom and by what definition". Some players might enjoy the attention to detail and historiosity (is that a word?) and think it a quality in itself, or take note of the woeful state of many USAAC units as a didactic point in its own right. And of course the a very slight chance that they might be used in other than a patrol capacity - a posibility which would only increase if these units were not there.

However accepting the basic contention that the air units in question are useless, the OOB designer is then left with the problem of formulation a workable methodology which can be applied across the board without prejudice. How do you define whether a unit is "useless" or not? If it's a question of location, should then the RCAF units go as well? What about Alaska? Exactly where does this imaginary line of "uselessness" run? Is it that they never left the US? Then what about units which never left metropolitan Japan, Australia, New Zealand or Canada? Is it the number of aircraft in a unit? Does this mean that all small or understrength units should be eliminated? How many aircraft is enough be "useful"? Same question with the short availability dates. So rather than make a number of arbitrary decisions on the behalf of the player, this OOB designer chose go back to the simple starting point: Is the unit in question combat- or combat-support unit operating in a manner explicitly modelled in the game on-map? If yes, leave the decision whether a unit is "useful" or not to the player.

Anyone is obviously at liberty to disagree, but there is - I believe - a considered reason for the current setup which has nothing to do with overblow egos or a lack of comprehension. That said on my personal top-three list of fix-its is making the withdrawal procedure automatic like the way it works for LCU's unless the player invests PPs to keep a unit in play, but I don't set patching priorities or do the coding so can only promise to push for it.

The total number of restricted WC air units called on to withdraw (this is, disband) is 65. This out of 2011 Allied units.


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2197214&mpage=2

quote:

ORIGINAL: afspret

Whats the story with ACUs in slots 1635, 1636, 1642-1645, 1647-1650, & 1652? They're all USN VF(N) Sqds or Dets and have 9999 for arrival dates.


Someone started fiddling with the USN carrier aviation OOB, then thought the better of it. For now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

I was going through scen 7 but assume the problem would be in most if not all of the long campaigns but in looking at the Marine air squadrons many of them are assigned to the USN Air West HQ but they come in at Pearl or even Nouema. Shouldn't they be either one of the Cent Pac or So Pac USN Air HQ's instead? Sometimes it was the first generation on the unit that comes in at one of the forward bases assigned to the west coast hq but then it's 2nd generation comes in at one of the west coast bases assigned to the west coast hq.


Will fix for patch 2.

quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

I noticed in the replacement pool that the Val upgrade sequence goes from D3A1 Val to D3A2 Val to D5Y1 Myojo, skipping all of the Judys. Is that intentional?


Yup.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The Beaufighter TFX - FB has an error in the drop tank configuration.

Not using drop tanks has Normal=Radar+Torpedo, Extended=Radar+Bombs

Using drop tanks has Normal=Radar+DropTanks, Extended=Radar+DropTanks+Bombs

Either have to add torpedo to normal or delete bombs from extended, I don't know which.


Arhh, drat. The difficulty is that the torp is slung under the fuselage as is the drop tank (= centreline). The bombs however are carried under the wings (= external). So to get round the inconsistancy you're seeing we'll have to define/fudge the TT/DT as "external", thus the code will call either the DT or the TT/bombs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CJ Martin

There are significant differences in aircraft ranges between the "stock" 8 Dec start and the "quiet China" 8 Dec start. From what I have seen so far, the "quiet China" ranges are less - in some cases hundreds of miles so.

So I ask TimTom - which set of ranges are more correct?



Hi Martin, how that's '43 mod coming?

The former. Slighty (just) puzzled why they should differ. Methinks me got a Scotsman to skin ;).

quote:

ORIGINAL: CJ Martin

I started poking around in these files to set the PH damage to match the stock 8 Dec files. I was also going to check the PBY max ranges, as they all seem off in AE. PBY's are incapable of self deploying to PH from the west coast in AE, and this is not historical. Given the newly aggressive AI subs (another change I am not fond of) and the inability to load air groups on more than one ship, this is a dangerous situation for the allied player.

-CJ


Hmm, the -5 should be able to reach PH but not the -5A prior to getting drop tanks. Will investigate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad Hunter

v1084 - Unit 4293 - 34th BG / HQ Sqn - This unit has no W/D requirement.


Wilco.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad Hunter

There appears to be 2 x WCDR R.N. Batesons...





quote:

ORIGINAL: Pascal

No RNZAF Hudsons were on Fiji at the beginning of the war.



The first ones arrive on the 9th, no?





< Message edited by timtom -- 10/7/2009 12:36:22 PM >


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(in reply to Splinterhead)
Post #: 1704
RE: Allied A/C prodcution rates - 10/7/2009 3:26:30 AM   
fbs

 

Posts: 1048
Joined: 12/25/2008
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Little typo.. aircraft type "Hurricane II Trop" instead of "Hurricane IIb Torp".

This is on Scenario #001, 1.0.1.1084.

Thanks
fbs

(in reply to timtom)
Post #: 1705
RE: Allied A/C prodcution rates - 10/7/2009 9:30:54 AM   
sspahr

 

Posts: 81
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fbs


Little typo.. aircraft type "Hurricane II Trop" instead of "Hurricane IIb Torp".

This is on Scenario #001, 1.0.1.1084.

Thanks
fbs


"Trop" is short for tropicalized, with the Vokes filter, so it's not a typo.

(in reply to fbs)
Post #: 1706
RE: Allied A/C prodcution rates - 10/7/2009 10:22:33 AM   
cantona2


Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sspahr


quote:

ORIGINAL: fbs


Little typo.. aircraft type "Hurricane II Trop" instead of "Hurricane IIb Torp".

This is on Scenario #001, 1.0.1.1084.

Thanks
fbs




"Trop" is short for tropicalized, with the Vokes filter, so it's not a typo.


Notice first spelling 'Trop' second spelling 'Torp'!

< Message edited by cantona2 -- 10/7/2009 10:31:45 AM >


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(in reply to sspahr)
Post #: 1707
RE: Allied A/C prodcution rates - 10/7/2009 2:17:18 PM   
timtom


Posts: 2358
Joined: 1/29/2003
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Tainan group should be the most or one of the most experienced and highest morale Japanese air groups at the start of the game...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2239930&mpage=1&key=�


It is top-of-line, isn't it?

One might wonder whether in some part the Tainan Kokutai's reputation springs from having received greater publicity in the English-speaking world than most through Sakai's book (nevermind that he didn't write it himself).

If the footnotes are anything to go by, the Wiki article is primarily based on Hata & Izawa's chapter on the Tainan Ku in "Japanese Naval Aces and Fighter Units in World War II". Hata & Izawa only states that the Kokutai was the "best known and...with the largest number of aces" rather than explicitly stating that the unit was the best of the landbased fighter units - in fact they also state that "compared to Tainan Air Group personnel, the ratio of senior, experienced personnel was higher [in the 3rd Kokutai]" (p.123).

Considering the four aces mentioned, only Sakai had previous combat experience as of December 7th '41. Sasai had only graduated from flight school that November. Nishizawa had yet to see combat and in any case wasn't assigned the Tainan Ku until April.
Ota, though having been assigned to 12th Ku in June '41, had seen no actual combat. In any case the Tainan Ku saw more combat than any other IJNAF fighter unit (such as they were) '41-'42, so it is perhaps not surprising if it came to have the "largest number of aces".

Looking at the some of the Tainan Ku pilots killed prior to the unit being posted to Rabaul suggests that the picture wasn't uniform:

Hatanaka, O.: Month graduated: 6/41 - Date of death: 24/11/41
Nakamizo, R.: 4/36 - 08/12/41 (ex-Kaga Kitai)
Hirose, Y.: 2/38 - 08/12/41 (ex-12th Ku)
Sato, Y.: 8/38 - 08/12/41
Kawano, Y.: 3/39 - 08/12/41
Aoki, Y.: 7/41 - 08/12/41
Higa, M.: 2/38 - 10/12/41 (ex-12th Ku)
Kuratomi, H.: 1/39 - 13/12/41 (ex-12th Ku)
Kikuchi, T.: 3/39 - 24/12/41 (ex-14th Ku)
Harada, Y. 5/33 - 24/01/42
Wakao, A.: 4/40 - 25/01/42
Seki, A.: 10/41 - 25/01/42
Sakai, T.: 8/38 - 29/01/42 (ex-12th Ku)
Kobayashi, K.: 7/41 - 03/02/42
Asai, M.: 7/38 - 19/02/42 (ex-12th Ku)
Ueda, M.: 10/41 - 24/02/42
Sakai, T.: 8/38 - 27/02/42

(Hata & Izawa, Appendix B, C)

Making a couple of presumptions about the data, of the 17 pilots, five were recent graduates and seven potential combat vets. That the picture wasn't entire monochrome is perhaps not surprising if one accepts Mark Peattie's argument in "Sunburst: The Rise of Japanese Naval Air Power" that "By the time of Pearl Harbor, half of the Japanese naval air service was, by its own reckoning, insufficiently trained, a situation that had lead to widespread allocation of inexperienced aircrews. Because the carrier units demanded the highest level of training, the could be supplied on at the sacrifice of the quality of many of the land-based air groups. At the opening of the Pacific War, for example, the table of organization for the first-line air groups was nearly complete, but if one looks at the composition, particularly those of the Eleventh Air Fleet, it is clear that they contained a fairly high percentage of aircrews assigned before their training was finished. In part this was a consequence of the recent commissioning of the carriers Shokaku and Zuikaku, which borrowed a number of the best air group leaders for their participation in the Hawai'i operation" ( p.166-7). It should be noted that the IJNAF's idea of "sufficient training" was a 12 months apprenticeship with a combat unit on top of basic flight training, at what point the pilot was considered combat-ready.




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(in reply to cantona2)
Post #: 1708
RE: Allied A/C prodcution rates - 10/7/2009 3:38:47 PM   
fbs

 

Posts: 1048
Joined: 12/25/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sspahr


quote:

ORIGINAL: fbs


Little typo.. aircraft type "Hurricane II Trop" instead of "Hurricane IIb Torp".

This is on Scenario #001, 1.0.1.1084.

Thanks
fbs


"Trop" is short for tropicalized, with the Vokes filter, so it's not a typo.



Ah.... sorry, forgot about tropicalized aircrafts. As I saw the Hurricane IIb Trop as an upgrade for a torpedo-carrying Vildebeest III unit, I thought it was the fighter-bomber with some sort of aiming device based on the torpedo-bomber aim.

Now that I think again of it, that wouldn't make any sense, hahaha.. I'm a moron...


Cheers
fbs

(in reply to sspahr)
Post #: 1709
RE: AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues - 10/8/2009 7:13:16 PM   
Montbrun


Posts: 1498
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline
v 1084 - Campaign Game - Unit 2660 "VMF-441"

No matter what I do, I can't get this unit to retain more than 20 pilots. I can fill the squadron to max planes (24), but the pilots don't hang around. The turn after I add pilots, they are gone. I'm not sure if they're returned to the pool or not.

(in reply to erstad)
Post #: 1710
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