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Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please?

 
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Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please? - 12/11/2007 11:51:55 PM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		I don't care how many resources you pour into it, you cannot build a battleship in 1 month!!

Nor can you turn battleship production facilities into heavy bomber facilities in 1 month

so can we have some ability to put in delays for production or changing production please?
Post #: 1
RE: Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please? - 12/12/2007 12:01:08 AM   
IRONCROM


Posts: 679
Joined: 8/19/2007
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline 		 Better I think would be the ability to create longer construction times in the editor for user created scenarios.

I don't think i would want slowed construction on a random map game starting with nothing but an HQ.

Would be cool in a predefined scenario though.
IMO

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 2
RE: Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please? - 12/12/2007 12:03:06 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Yeah that's why I asked for it as an ability - an option if you will

An ability to have such projects held at a certain stage of construction would be good to IMO - construction of capital ships especially, taking years to build, was sometimes stopped then started again.

What bought it home to me was another game where the Soviets get a choice whether to build the battleships they had on the ramps in 1941 (Sovietsi Soyuz class - nominally similar to the Iowa's although we'll never really know.....)

< Message edited by SMK-at-work -- 12/12/2007 12:04:25 AM >

(in reply to IRONCROM)
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RE: Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please? - 12/12/2007 1:09:12 AM   
IRONCROM


Posts: 679
Joined: 8/19/2007
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline 		I like it.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
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RE: Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please? - 12/12/2007 1:19:39 AM   
rickier65

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Yeah that's why I asked for it as an ability - an option if you will

An ability to have such projects held at a certain stage of construction would be good to IMO - construction of capital ships especially, taking years to build, was sometimes stopped then started again.

What bought it home to me was another game where the Soviets get a choice whether to build the battleships they had on the ramps in 1941 (Sovietsi Soyuz class - nominally similar to the Iowa's although we'll never really know.....)



I'm not sure about starting and stopping, but couldnt you go into editor and only allow production of Battleships in one or two places, then set the production rate of those places such that it would take long time?

Not sure about starting and stopping, though it seems some action card system might be able to be used for something like that.

Rick

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 5
RE: Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please? - 12/12/2007 1:23:23 AM   
IRONCROM


Posts: 679
Joined: 8/19/2007
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline 		I believe your right.
Sound like a creative scenario designer can already do that.

(in reply to rickier65)
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RE: Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please? - 12/12/2007 1:46:14 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Possibly - I'm not that au fait with the game mechanics.

I see some locations in the game can be limited to supply/PP's, so I assume it's possible to limit a location to producing ships (or aircraft, or tanks or whatever), but most industrial locations would be producing several types of equiment - eg Leningrad produces ships and tanks and artillery and infantry at least, so can you ahve seperate production facilities all in one hex?

(in reply to IRONCROM)
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RE: Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please? - 12/12/2007 4:29:09 AM   
rickier65

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Possibly - I'm not that au fait with the game mechanics.

I see some locations in the game can be limited to supply/PP's, so I assume it's possible to limit a location to producing ships (or aircraft, or tanks or whatever), but most industrial locations would be producing several types of equiment - eg Leningrad produces ships and tanks and artillery and infantry at least, so can you ahve seperate production facilities all in one hex?



Not sure how that would work, since you could divert production from tanks to ships iof you do them in same production center. I'd have to mess around with editor to see what could be done. It occurred to me that you could probably create an item that had to be produced before you produced the battleship, like maybe the keel or somthing, this might allow you to have some startting / stopping ability, ie, build the keel, then divert production to other items, then go back and build the battleship. I don't know, just a wild thought

I havent played with editor to that extent yet.

Rick

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 8
RE: Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please? - 12/12/2007 7:57:35 AM   
Westheim

 

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From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

I don't care how many resources you pour into it, you cannot build a battleship in 1 month!!

Nor can you turn battleship production facilities into heavy bomber facilities in 1 month


The Chinese can.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 9
RE: Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please? - 12/12/2007 3:47:15 PM   
Ande

 

Posts: 197
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		you could have a actioncard system, first you need to buy a hull which is given to you 6 month after purchase for 8 pp, then you need to build the ship which takes fufther 6 months and another 8pp at this point you could have some choise, you could deside if you want a battleship or a carrier for example. This way caplital ships will always take atleast a year to construct capital ships but tthey will cost will be tha same, it could also be implemented that you need to control a certain city to construct ships where they show up when the're finished

(in reply to Westheim)
Post #: 10
RE: Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please? - 12/12/2007 4:28:28 PM   
Panzeh

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline 		While I can see the realism in not being able to change production on the fly, I kind of think that it's better the way it is because it's more transparent to the player.  Gearing limits and stuff like that tend to interfere with that in my opinion.  Different strokes for different folks, though.

(in reply to Ande)
Post #: 11
RE: Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please? - 12/12/2007 4:45:03 PM   
tweber

 

Posts: 1411
Joined: 6/27/2007
Status: offline 		I think there are 2 basic ways within the current game system to do gearing limits -

1.  Limit ship construction to certain types of locations and set production levels such that it takes a while to build a capital ship.  Pro- Works with current production system, AI will be able to use it within any changes.  Con- on large scale maps, you make need lots of ship yards and it might look strange.

2.  Use action cards to build your capital ships - Pro - less map clutter.  Con- I think this will be a lot of variables for the scenario designer to manage.  Also, you not need a separate construction mechnanism for the AI. 

I personally think it is a nice concept to add at some point.  I am working on a large, WiF like scenario for v1.1 that spans the globe.  It could be a variant at some point but there are lots of other things I am trying and I don't want to start with something too complex right off the bat.

(in reply to Panzeh)
Post #: 12
RE: Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please? - 12/31/2007 7:56:20 AM   
tweber

 

Posts: 1411
Joined: 6/27/2007
Status: offline 		I thought of another way to introduce production delays.  Suppose you are playing a scenario with 1 month turns and you want capital ships to take a year to build.  You could:

- Introduce a bunch of Sftypes call bb_keel_1, bb_keel_2, bb_keel_3, etc....
- Allow players the ability to only build bb_keel1
- Use the exec mutate to make each keel upgrage every month.  (e.g., keel 1 goes to keel 2, keel 2 goes to keel 3)
- When you get to keel 12, mutate the unit to the capital ship.

Nice thing about this approach is that the keel is tied to a shipyard.  Downside is that you may have to add a lot of sftypes.  However, you could reduce the number of sftypes by making the mutation random.  Instead of having 12 1-month stages with a 100% probability of going from 1 stage to the next, you could have 4 stages with a 33% chance of going to the next stage.  The expected duration of construction would be the same but there would be some variability.

Finally, if you make the probability to advance to the next stage a game variable, this could be something that is researchable with an action card (e.g., spend x for faster ship construction).

(in reply to tweber)
Post #: 13
RE: Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please? - 12/31/2007 10:53:53 AM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Hmmm, 1 year for a BB ?

Even more realistic nobody would build them. Simply a question of effectivity.
I could sink that ship easily by a few divebombers. It´s very vulnerable compared to the construction time.
And this will make it´s construction less interesting.

And the "production steps SFT´s" are nice, but you would need that for the other ship types also, or ?
So it would probably double the number of existing SFT´s.

Next thing is how that way could handle upgrades. I mean if you mutate would it mutate in BB II when researched ?

How about strategic attacks ? This could cause problems with the production schedule.
You could not simply mutate each turn when the production center is destroyed.
Just some points that could affect that idea to delay production.

(in reply to tweber)
Post #: 14
RE: Can we have some production delays in v1.1 please? - 12/31/2007 11:09:16 AM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		@SMK & tweber,

Hi guys!
The way to to make production more long term in an easy and balanced way is too:

1. Multiply all item production cost by 10 or 20

2. Multiply all item multiplier variables by the same ammount.

3. Make sure there are not to big cities on the map... Keep it to max like 5000 or 10000 point cities. 

kind regards,
Vic

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 15
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