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RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/14/2007 10:25:46 AM

Adam Parker

Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
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Best AI in a game published by Matrix is SSG's "Battles in Normandy".

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 31

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/14/2007 1:35:56 PM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

Best AI in a game published by Matrix is SSG's "Battles in Normandy".

While I own and enjoy playing all of the games in the Decisive Battles series (including Across the Dnepr) and the AI can definitely be categorized as very aggressive, it is almost too aggressive for it's own good. It can easily be baited into overcommitting against a "vulnerable" unit and end up leaving gaping holes in it's lines or leaving itself totally out of position to counter my next moves. I would categorize the DB AI as "good" but not "great".

(in reply to Adam Parker)

Post #: 32

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/14/2007 5:22:11 PM

ravinhood

Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

Best AI in a game published by Matrix is SSG's "Battles in Normandy".

While I own and enjoy playing all of the games in the Decisive Battles series (including Across the Dnepr) and the AI can definitely be categorized as very aggressive, it is almost too aggressive for it's own good. It can easily be baited into overcommitting against a "vulnerable" unit and end up leaving gaping holes in it's lines or leaving itself totally out of position to counter my next moves. I would categorize the DB AI as "good" but not "great".

Yep couldn't have said it better myself. The Decisive Battles AI is far from the BEST that Matrixgames has. But, then again you have to consider the source of Adam he likes VISTA as well. lol

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 33

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/14/2007 7:13:35 PM

Veldor

Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mlc82

I'm like JudgeDredd in that the random/generic unit/faction/city names really put me off as well.� No idea why, I just don't like it (I'm thinking it's AT that I saw him mentioning this about).� That sort of thing is a real immersion killer for me.�......

Huh?

Advanced Tactics is the only game on the list that even LETS you play randomly created games in the first place. If anything about that randomness puts you off just pretend its like every other game and that you can only play the fixed scenarios.

Then you still get more scenarios by far than the average game comes with, and certainly more variety (WWII, WWI, Civil War, Fantasy, etc.). All the historical scenarios have accurate names, units, and maps..

With supply and anti-supply rules as well as production and complex ZOC rules I don't think its really all that simple of a game. It certainly feels and plays like a wargame to me. There are certainly more complex games out there but the main strength in AT is how flexible and smooth it plays.

I think for a lot of people its their favorite Matrix Game, but the reason Im confident in recommending it is that whatever your likes or dislikes there is something in that game for everyone and while it may not ever rank as your most favorite game it will always be a game thats fun to play and (something that shouldn't be discounted) VERY easy to find opponents for.

Though of course your looking for single-player only... The one neat thing about the random games there is if you play with shroud on you dont have an advantage over the AI because you don't even know the layout of the map etc. Think of the random game as a bonus game for free. It plays entirely different from the fixed scenarios. The AI is currently being patched to address the main concerns players had about it in the fixed scenarios (How it used air units etc.)

Check out some of the AAR's (Maybe the one the talks about Amphibous Assaults and how to build forward naval ports and fortifications as part of island invasions)..

Let us know what you end up buying...

_____________________________

(in reply to mikul82)

Post #: 34

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/14/2007 7:15:54 PM

cdbeck

Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline

Well, if you loved Europa Universalis II, then EUIII with the Napoleon's Ambition add-on is a sure-fire success (not to steer you away from Matrix). Also, if your budget is lower, you could get Crusader Kings with the Deus Vult expansion for a bit cheaper to have some old fashion medieval fun (I am a medievalist and it gets my seal of approval).

For the price of Crusader Kings + Deus Vult, you could get those and come back here and get Tin Soldiers or Advanced Tactics - why not have the best of all worlds?

SoM

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 35

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/14/2007 8:28:28 PM

ravinhood

Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline

STOP PROMOTING PARADOX GAMES ON THE MATRIXGAMES SITE THANK YOU AND HAVE A NICE DAY!

Do you people not read the OP's TOPIC?? Did is not state BEST MATRIXGAME??!! Yes it did so SOM why are you promoting Paradox games and "going OFF TOPIC"? huh why huh? We all wanna know!!!

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 12/14/2007 8:29:09 PM >

(in reply to cdbeck)

Post #: 36

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/14/2007 8:39:59 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Ravinhood,

You really want to be a moderator, don't you?

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 37

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/14/2007 8:47:06 PM

ravinhood

Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline

Just practicing ;) Have a Merry Christmas

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 38

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/14/2007 10:14:01 PM

mikul82

Posts: 204
Joined: 3/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

Well, if you loved Europa Universalis II, then EUIII with the Napoleon's Ambition add-on is a sure-fire success (not to steer you away from Matrix). Also, if your budget is lower, you could get Crusader Kings with the Deus Vult expansion for a bit cheaper to have some old fashion medieval fun (I am a medievalist and it gets my seal of approval).

For the price of Crusader Kings + Deus Vult, you could get those and come back here and get Tin Soldiers or Advanced Tactics - why not have the best of all worlds?

SoM

I've got CK + Deus Vult and really like it :) EU III + NA will eventually find a place on my hard drive as well ;)

(in reply to cdbeck)

Post #: 39

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/14/2007 10:17:31 PM

mikul82

Posts: 204
Joined: 3/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor

quote:

ORIGINAL: mlc82

I'm like JudgeDredd in that the random/generic unit/faction/city names really put me off as well.� No idea why, I just don't like it (I'm thinking it's AT that I saw him mentioning this about).� That sort of thing is a real immersion killer for me.�......

Huh?

Advanced Tactics is the only game on the list that even LETS you play randomly created games in the first place. If anything about that randomness puts you off just pretend its like every other game and that you can only play the fixed scenarios.

Then you still get more scenarios by far than the average game comes with, and certainly more variety (WWII, WWI, Civil War, Fantasy, etc.). All the historical scenarios have accurate names, units, and maps..

With supply and anti-supply rules as well as production and complex ZOC rules I don't think its really all that simple of a game. It certainly feels and plays like a wargame to me. There are certainly more complex games out there but the main strength in AT is how flexible and smooth it plays.

I think for a lot of people its their favorite Matrix Game, but the reason Im confident in recommending it is that whatever your likes or dislikes there is something in that game for everyone and while it may not ever rank as your most favorite game it will always be a game thats fun to play and (something that shouldn't be discounted) VERY easy to find opponents for.

Though of course your looking for single-player only... The one neat thing about the random games there is if you play with shroud on you dont have an advantage over the AI because you don't even know the layout of the map etc. Think of the random game as a bonus game for free. It plays entirely different from the fixed scenarios. The AI is currently being patched to address the main concerns players had about it in the fixed scenarios (How it used air units etc.)

Check out some of the AAR's (Maybe the one the talks about Amphibous Assaults and how to build forward naval ports and fortifications as part of island invasions)..

Let us know what you end up buying...

Maybe I will have to try it out... I was thinking it was a randomized system set with WWII as a backdrop (but not any specifically die hard WWII scenarios) but able to simulate other periods as well. Not to sound like I keep bashing it (I don't know anything about the game besides what I've heard here so I'm really not!), but I also generally don't like game sets that try simulating everything from Napoleon to WWII... I just don't see how they can have the proper "feel" for the different periods, but if that one is geared toward WWII then I might really like those. I've always liked the 1930's to modern scenarios in TOAW, but couldn't ever really get into the ones set in WWI, or the US Civil War, or before just because the game system doesn't feel right to simulate those conflicts.

(in reply to Veldor)

Post #: 40

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/14/2007 10:21:40 PM

mikul82

Posts: 204
Joined: 3/2/2007
Status: offline

BTW, how is Harpoon: CE for us single player fans? I know it's loaded with scenarios and I recall liking the original. Any recommendation/warning on that one?

(in reply to mikul82)

Post #: 41

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/14/2007 10:26:36 PM

Veldor

Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

STOP PROMOTING PARADOX GAMES ON THE MATRIXGAMES SITE THANK YOU AND HAVE A NICE DAY!

Do you people not read the OP's TOPIC?? Did is not state BEST MATRIXGAME??!! Yes it did so SOM why are you promoting Paradox games and "going OFF TOPIC"? huh why huh? We all wanna know!!!

Just some excerpts from Veldor's "Forum Moderation for Dummies" Book (c) 2007:

Rule #16 : Don't yell at your forum's members with all caps and excessive exclamation points.
Rule #57 : Don't enforce a rule that doesn't exist.

_____________________________

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 42

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/14/2007 10:56:16 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mlc82

BTW, how is Harpoon: CE for us single player fans? I know it's loaded with scenarios and I recall liking the original. Any recommendation/warning on that one?

It's very good. Steep learning curve, but very good.

_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to mikul82)

Post #: 43

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/15/2007 12:45:43 AM

ravinhood

Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

STOP PROMOTING PARADOX GAMES ON THE MATRIXGAMES SITE THANK YOU AND HAVE A NICE DAY!

Do you people not read the OP's TOPIC?? Did is not state BEST MATRIXGAME??!! Yes it did so SOM why are you promoting Paradox games and "going OFF TOPIC"? huh why huh? We all wanna know!!!

Just some excerpts from Veldor's "Forum Moderation for Dummies" Book (c) 2007:

Rule #16 : Don't yell at your forum's members with all caps and excessive exclamation points.
Rule #57 : Don't enforce a rule that doesn't exist.

WeLl Go BaCk To YoUr FoRuM aNd TaKe YoUr MoDeRaTiNg FoR dUmMiEs WiTh YoU, tHiS iS a MaTrIxGaMeS fOrUm NoT a VeLdOr FoRuM.

(in reply to Veldor)

Post #: 44

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/15/2007 12:52:48 AM

Veldor

Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
WeLl Go BaCk To YoUr FoRuM aNd TaKe YoUr MoDeRaTiNg FoR dUmMiEs WiTh YoU, tHiS iS a MaTrIxGaMeS fOrUm NoT a VeLdOr FoRuM.

Was just practicing for that Matrix Games Internal Affairs Position. Have a Merry Christmas!

_____________________________

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 45

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/15/2007 4:04:09 AM

mikul82

Posts: 204
Joined: 3/2/2007
Status: offline

Just a quick update, I've been reading over Advanced Tactics and just downloaded People's Tactics to try it out. AT definitely looks more interesting than I've given it credit for! For those who have played with both, how does it compare to "Strategic Command 2" (the bundle pack including add on)? I wanted to keep this to just Matrix stuff since it's the MG forum, but SC2 is also on my near future buy list as I really liked the first one, and while SC2 and AT don't sound like the same level of game (I'd compare SC2 more directly to Grigsby's World at War or the Hearts of Iron games I think), they look kind of similar to me.

I'll try out People's Tactics tonight as an "alpha demo" of AT and let you guys know how I like it!

(in reply to Veldor)

Post #: 46

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/15/2007 4:12:43 AM

marcusm

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: G�teborg/Sweden
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The "generics" all depends on the scenario design.
TOAW3 scenarios can also be made generic if a designer chooses to do so.
AT makes me feel like a real commander of forces and that is a big immersion factor in my book.

Anyway, if you don't have TOAW3, why even look further? No wargame comes close in replayability (at least if you dropped AT).

Marcus

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 47

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/15/2007 4:26:41 AM

Hidde

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Just a brief comment - the Tin Soldiers AI is actually quite good and I find these to be highly enjoyable solo player games. I would start with Caesar and see if you like it.

Regards,

- Erik

I can't resist to take the opportunity to say that I really am sad that no more Tin Soldiers will be coming. Some sort of a more involved strategic layer and... but I'm dreaming.
I found it much easier to win in Caesar than Alexander. The AI should be the same so I simply got better I suppose

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 48

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/15/2007 4:40:34 AM

mikul82

Posts: 204
Joined: 3/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marcusm

The "generics" all depends on the scenario design.
TOAW3 scenarios can also be made generic if a designer chooses to do so.
AT makes me feel like a real commander of forces and that is a big immersion factor in my book.

Anyway, if you don't have TOAW3, why even look further? No wargame comes close in replayability (at least if you dropped AT).

Marcus

Oh I've got that one, and I love it... I've been playing with TOAW since it originally came out!

(in reply to marcusm)

Post #: 49

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/15/2007 4:57:05 AM

TheHellPatrol

Posts: 1588
Joined: 7/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

Best AI in a game published by Matrix is SSG's "Battles in Normandy".

That would be my choice, or Battles in Italy...there is no competition. As a side note i just bought another copy(physical-CD) of Battles In Normandy due to the Xmas sale/show support. Superb games....

_____________________________

A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau

(in reply to Adam Parker)

Post #: 50

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/15/2007 7:06:47 AM

cdbeck

Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline

I was going to suggest DL'ing People's Tactics as a trial run. Seriously, if you LOVE TOAW, then you will really like AT. I find that they play very similarly, with a tad more customization available with AT. With the ability to turn the map shroud on and have low starting tech, you get this Civ or Empire feeling as well. It is a jewel of a game, and currently my favortie Matrix title (and I own CoG, FoF, UV, Titans of Steel, Empire in Arms, Starships Unlimited (good game here too), Battlefront, Korsun Pocket, TOAW, CotA... geez this list is long... forgot the rest, but I know there are more).

Ravinhood, don't start on that crap... I see you mention Crusader Kings all over the place. It's Christmas, so I promise to be nice.

SoM

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to TheHellPatrol)

Post #: 51

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/15/2007 4:58:42 PM

marcusm

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: G�teborg/Sweden
Status: offline

I just wish SSG.s maps had the same clear graphics as TOAW3. I just
can't get past the "3d clutter". Like I said before. Matrixgames should hire GFK/JM as "map graphic experts".
They know how to make proper wargame(as in boardgame look) graphics.

Marcus

(in reply to cdbeck)

Post #: 52

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/16/2007 3:45:32 AM

sullafelix

Posts: 1520
Joined: 1/11/2005
Status: offline

�The main point of playing solitaire is whether you are playing a " game " or historical simulation. If you play against the computer and only try to use historical or semihistorical play then a lot of wargames are fine solitaire. If however you play them as a game and try to play like chess or checkers than you run into problems. Most of the games Matrix sells�AI's can handle you trying to play a simulation like strategy. If however you are one to exploit the game mechanics and will use unhistorical or even may I say shady tactics then the AI will not be a very good opponent.

I gave up playing against other people because so many tried to exploit the game mechanics and loopholes that I wasn't even remotely playing a historical wargame but just a what can we sneak through this time game. Exploiting bad rules and other things not covered to keep them playing what I would call honestly. The first and� by far not the most glaring was in some game a person taking Kiev for VP's with an antiaircraft unit! While it is true that the rules should have forseen such shenannigans. Some designers forget about these type of players.

So playing against the AI is a relative point of view. In my opionion of the Matrix games any SSG product has an outstanding AI, so do Panther Games. The rest are all fine depending on your play.

Sure some AI's do some stupid things, then again so do us humans.

I just saw this posted in the Guns Of August forum

"Hi, I wanted people's opinions on something that happened in my current game.

My opponent attacked one of my hexes and was repulsed, and his troops retreated into the Alps just across the German/Austrian border (which he had captured earlier). By fully stacking the hexes behind those border hexes, he has been able to maintain overstacked hexes in those mountain hexsides, then attack out of "7 stacking point" alpine hexes with 3 or more corps. And of course these overstacked Alpine hexes are impossible to retake with 2 attacking corps versus 3 defending corps in 3-4 point entrenchments. And because of the entrenchments and the natural mountain trench bonus they are pointless to bombard for the most part.

Have other people encountered this? It seems gamey to me and I don't like it myself. "

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. This post was about intentional overstacking.

< Message edited by sulla05 -- 12/16/2007 3:49:27 AM >

(in reply to marcusm)

Post #: 53

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/16/2007 3:56:10 AM

mikul82

Posts: 204
Joined: 3/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05

�The main point of playing solitaire is whether you are playing a " game " or historical simulation. If you play against the computer and only try to use historical or semihistorical play then a lot of wargames are fine solitaire. If however you play them as a game and try to play like chess or checkers than you run into problems. Most of the games Matrix sells�AI's can handle you trying to play a simulation like strategy. If however you are one to exploit the game mechanics and will use unhistorical or even may I say shady tactics then the AI will not be a very good opponent.

I gave up playing against other people because so many tried to exploit the game mechanics and loopholes that I wasn't even remotely playing a historical wargame but just a what can we sneak through this time game. Exploiting bad rules and other things not covered to keep them playing what I would call honestly. The first and� by far not the most glaring was in some game a person taking Kiev for VP's with an antiaircraft unit! While it is true that the rules should have forseen such shenannigans. Some designers forget about these type of players.

So playing against the AI is a relative point of view. In my opionion of the Matrix games any SSG product has an outstanding AI, so do Panther Games. The rest are all fine depending on your play.

Sure some AI's do some stupid things, then again so do us humans.

I really do enjoy "roleplaying" a lot of my games, and try not to use AI exploits. I love Europa Barbarorum for Rome TW even though I despise what the TW engine has become, and even enjoy roleplaying my generals/characters according to their traits in order to make the game more immersive. For example, if I have appointed a general out of desperation who is a tactical idiot but loves violence and gladiator matches, I'll roleplay him in the sense of turning any battle I fight with him into an orgy of carnage and death devoid of any tactics... This means one can actually lose against the braindead AI in a manner somewhat fitting with history, ie the over-aggressive idiot who marched his troops straight into the ambush at Cannae. I guess I'm just a die-hard history nerd ;)

I don't want something though that has a massive grand campaign which sees the AI doing stupid things halfway through, which is what I've heard about War in The Pacific (in all fairness I don't see how a competent AI could be programmed for such a game), or the HPS Panzer Campaigns games, which I enjoy but the AI only fares well in the smaller scenarios. I just don't have the patience to PBEM a massive grand campaign at the moment.

From what I've read here, I'm leaning mainly toward the Tin Soldiers games, Spartan (I have the other Slitherine games except for Legion) and also Harpoon CE and maybe Advanced Tactics.

As a side note, I've been drinking (I have the alcohol tolerance of a schoolgirl) tonight, and am barely fighting off the urge to just buy everything I've ever wanted off of Matrix right now. The only thing preventing me is the sheer hatred and wrath I feel toward credit card companies (especially mine), which is who would be profitting from such a purchase since my checking account won't be anything worth mentioning/using for another week.

(in reply to sullafelix)

Post #: 54

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/25/2007 8:21:58 AM

mikul82

Posts: 204
Joined: 3/2/2007
Status: offline

Quick update, I'll be getting my Xmas game tomorrow when my girlfriend is here to purchase it with me (I want direct download, ie "I want it now!").� One more day left to go of this nightmare of a holiday and then I'll finally be back to relaxing and playing games- I'm leaning heavily toward the Tin Soldiers games right now, just can't get enough Ancient era games.� I'll post tomorrow and let everyone know which I went with in the end. Thanks again for all of the replies!

< Message edited by mlc82 -- 12/25/2007 8:23:51 AM >

(in reply to mikul82)

Post #: 55

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/26/2007 5:17:08 AM

mikul82

Posts: 204
Joined: 3/2/2007
Status: offline

And I went with the Tin Soldiers games, will post later on and let anyone who's interested know how I like them- I'm downloading them now.

I am also drinking to celebrate the end of the worst holiday on earth for introverts like me, so don't be too surprised if I end up buying another game on my own as well ;)

(in reply to mikul82)

Post #: 56

RE: Best Single-Player ONLY MatrixGame? - 12/26/2007 1:53:51 PM

Rapstyle

Posts: 18
Joined: 12/24/2007
Status: offline

Hmhmhmmhmh,I donno.

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 57