RE: Operation Nakri Update October 16-November 9, 1943

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> RE: Operation Nakri Update October 16-November 9, 1943

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RE: Operation Nakri Update October 16-November 9, 1943 - 7/1/2008 4:35:56 AM

Blackhorse

Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
It is 21 km2 in size. If you smoothed out Mt Surabachi 250,000 soldiers would each get 84 m2 to themselves. Of course, a couple hundred aircraft, a couple of runways, ordinance, equipment, thousands of tons of fuel oil and av gas and a bunch of equipment might make things a bit snug.

There would never be enough fresh water. Prewar the island supported about 1000 permanent inhabitants farming sugarcane. I'm not sure how many desalinators it would take to keep 250,000 men from dropping dead of thirst.

By comparison, the island of Manhattan is 59 km2 in size, and supports a permanent population of 1,620,000 -- and probably more than double that, if weekday commuters and evening tourists are included.

The biggest problem isn't the size of the island, it's how to keep everybody supplied. WitP-AE won't completely solve the problem, but with overstacking penalties, and unloading rates linked to port sizes it will make it harder to 'overload' an island.

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Post #: 841

RE: Operation Nakri Update October 16-November 9, 1943 - 7/1/2008 5:03:58 AM

John 3rd

Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
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Thanks for the thoughts you guys. I am heartened to read so much agreement with my venting. I do look forward to AE correcting some of these. When that comes out, I will draw up a new set of House Rules and see what happens.

I need to do installments pertaining to the following areas: the Aussie reconquest of eastern Australia, CBI, and China. These will get done tomorrow I hope. Additionally I need to post my November 1st VP-Industrial Report. One fun thing I wrote down is the status of those Sentai and Daitai that fought for so long over Rangoon and where they are now. I thought it might be interesting to follow these units who have seen heavy combat and watch their changes, ups and downs, and new assignments.

Will do what I can tomorrow.

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Post #: 842

RE: Operation Nakri Update October 16-November 9, 1943 - 7/1/2008 5:52:08 AM

vettim89

Posts: 3615
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John, good to see you in better spirits. The problem is not with PT boats but with the accuracy of the torpedos. I am no modder but it just seems to me that it would just be as simple as making a Mk 13 Torpedo (PT) with a much lower accuracy. Destroyers had analog fire control systems to aim their torpedos. PT boats used the Mk 1 Optical Aiming System (eyeball) or TLAR (that looks about right).

I know you have been frustrated with some of the things Dan has done as far as exploiting the game system. Hopefully AE will fix some of this. The 400 k troops on IWO is no where near as bad as letting players build level 4 airbases on atolls Some of these islands had less than a squre mile of usable space - where exactly are you gonna fit a runway, service areas, fuel storage, and ammo dumps let alone 200 combat aircraft in a square mile? Here's hoping for AE

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Post #: 843

RE: Operation Nakri Update October 16-November 9, 1943 - 7/1/2008 7:41:40 AM

String

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To be fair, and I hope i'm not giving away any sensitive information here, your opponent didn't keep the battlefleet disbanded at Iwo. That is all.

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Post #: 844

RE: Operation Nakri Update October 16-November 9, 1943 - 7/1/2008 1:19:35 PM

Nemo121

Posts: 5821
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John,

Your CV action was succesfull but this was a battle of two phases.
Phase 1: CV action. Highly successful and very low losses.
Phase 2: Battlefleet bombardment. Your losses exceeded your results by a great margin.

If you'd stopped at Phase 1 you'd have had a great victory. By conducting Phase 2 you ended up with a draw. I'm not trying to be difficult with you and will keep my opinions to myself if you'd prefer in future but improving in terms of strategic command etc is about not only applauding the wins but also pointing out and learning from the mistakes.

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Post #: 845

RE: Operation Nakri Update October 16-November 9, 1943 - 7/1/2008 8:03:04 PM

John 3rd

Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
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Nemo,

Please feel free everytime to comment and/or through out your thoughts. I get frustrated and right now I AM frustrated with the game play right now. If you felt any of that was directed at you please do not take it so. Just feel like there is no way to actually do anything successfully right now.

In fact, I am toying with doing another raid towards Midway to see what I can bag.

Let me run the turn with Dan now and I will get back to updates on the AAR.

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Post #: 846

RE: Operation Nakri Update October 16-November 9, 1943 - 7/1/2008 8:30:33 PM

ny59giants

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John,
Since I don't read Dan's AAR since I took over your economy (I seem to have lost that job), I would say that he is getting ready to strike somewhere. I would be doing a lot of "what if" scenarios in your head and/or write them down. I would think of how you will counter any of those. As long as he just stays at Iwo Jima, its a pain, but not critical as you have adjusted to it.
I would prepare for a massive strike to hit him once he moves. I would say it will come out of Iwo Jima vs. from another direction.
Can you afford for your CVs to be out of position by a raid to Midway if he was to move on Luzon or somewhere else to the west while you went there??

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 7/1/2008 8:31:44 PM >

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Post #: 847

RE: Operation Nakri Update October 16-November 9, 1943 - 7/1/2008 10:42:30 PM

John 3rd

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From: La Salle, Colorado
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Michael,

You have been so busy with work and your other games, I didn't think you wanted to look anymore and provide me imput. You would be most welcome! My HI stockpile just broke past 200,000!

How about that?

I have been doing a massive redeployment ever since Iwo Jima fell. Nearly 200,000 troops have moved or are on the move. They have mainly been going towards the Home Islands and Okinawa:

1. At Okinawa there are 2 Inf Div in one hex and 1.5 Inf Div in the other. I have another on the way.
2. I have transfered 3 Inf Div to the Home Islands. They were practicully naked when he landed at Iwo.
3. The Philippines are OK.
4. Formosa is weak but should get better after another 10-14 days.

What is really getting me is that I might be out of position in Saipan with the Fleet. Any move he makes west/southwestward is a catch-up scenario for me. Since I am using my CVEs, the best speed I can make is 4/4. While that isn't terrible--it isn't too good either. However, by staying at Saipan he KNOWS my Fleet is sitting there as a Fleet-in-Being. Wherever he moves my ships will be able to come after him while he is away from his precious LBA umbrella. 'Tis a puzzlement...

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Post #: 848

CBI November 13, 1943 LOOK at all these Allied Troops! - 7/2/2008 12:06:30 AM

John 3rd

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The following screenshot lays out the Allied attack from one end of the Indochina to the Indian Ocean. I don't know if the Allies/British were so incompetent during the war that they couldn't seriously drive the Japanese out or what but I cannot fight the pressure of 116 units attacking throughout the Japanese line!

If my count is correct then there are nearly 1.2 million Allied troops attacking or threatening to attack along the Hanoi to Port Blair line!

I spotted Dan's Invasion Force November 10th heading for Port Blair. I moved aircraft in anticipation of some serious bloodshed!

On the 12th a group of my planes assaulted the British Fleet (Indomitable/Formidable and a BB). The attack was by 110 Fighters (Jacks and Tony-C) escorting 48 TB. They ran into 112 Fighters (including P-38s) flying CAP. While my fighters gave themselves to the Emporer I had 42 Kates (Exp: 78) blast through to launch Torps!

NONE of them hit ANYTHING...

Losses amounted to 76 Japanese Fighters and 19 Kates for 37 Allied Fighters.

That night I moved 54 Betty, 81 Fighters, and 54 Helen into the base at Victoria Point for a dawn attack. Do the planes get off the ground PRIOR to the expected Allied bomber strike??? NO! I have 47 Fighters flying CAP against 43 P-38 and 104 Liberators. For 8 P-38s I lose a total of 122 aircraft (mainly on the ground). No comment...

Give orders for all planes to fallback to Singora and Georgetown.

Here is the current screenshot:

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 849

RE: Operation Nakri Update October 16-November 9, 1943 - 7/2/2008 12:09:06 AM

ny59giants

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Our game using Empire Ablaze is a slow paced game that has last priority. I made the commitment to assist you with your economy (at least until you get Tracker installed - hint, hint). I would say a game turn at least once (or twice) per week game turns wise is good. Even if they are just for Tracker, I can load them quickly.

My game vs Damain comes in second at its his only one and I like playing the Allies in the beginning.

Slowing down the flood is fun to me. I'm a better defensive player than an offensive minded one. I have played enough games as the Allies for the first few months, its easy to do.

You have multiple games going that are a lot closer to completion than out game. They come in before ours.

We were suppose to have installed Tracker over the last few days. Besides tomorrow, I should be able to assist, if needed, if its early in the day for the next few days. Plus, send me a turn from this game so I can take a look and post the stuff here for the other experts, especially Damian, to take a look at the economy. Hopefully, you have sent supplies to Balikpapan to ensure repairs were kept up.

FYI - if you haven't done so yet, I would do a Google search and install "Firefox" 3. It is so much easier and faster to use than IE7.

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Post #: 850

November 1, 1943 VP--Industrial Report - 7/2/2008 1:12:47 AM

John 3rd

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November 1, 1943
Victory Points and Economic Summary

Victory Points:

Score
Japan 43,116 (Down 1,012 Points)
Allies 24,356 (Up 2,137 Points)

Interesting Month! I lost all of Eastern Australia and had a major naval operation occur.

Ships Sunk
Japan 473�4,553 VP (up 731)�I lost 37 ships sunk during October. Exact losses were: BC Haruna, CAs Kumano and Haguro, 4 CL, 13 DD, 1 TK, 1 AO, 6 AK, 2 AP, 2 PG, 3 MSW, and 2 SS (I-18 and I-28)

Major Japanese Vessels Sunk to Date---CV Junyo and Hiyo, BB Fuso and Yamashiro, BC Kirishima and Haruna, 5 CA , 9 CL, 49 DD, and 30 SS (24 I-Boats and 6 Ro-).

Allies 756---9,002 VP (up 1,104)---Dan lost a total of 44 ships for the month of October. His losses were: CV Intrepid, CVL Langley, CVE Casablanca, BB Alabama, CAs Salt Lake City and Pensacola, 1 DD, 1 DE, 3 SS (Growler, Runner, S-32), 16 PT-Boats, 7 AK, 1 AP, 1 LCT, and 8 TK

Major Allied Vessels Sunk---CVs Enterprise, Lexington, Hornet, Wasp and Intrepid, CVL Langley, 1 CVE, BBs Colorado, West Virginia, Idaho, Tennessee, Arizona, Prince of Wales and Alabama, 11 CA, 7 CL, 50 DD, and 22 SS.

Manchukuo Garrison---8,082---Down 6---(8,000 Needed)
Political Points---1,033

Units Transferred:
China 39th Infantry Division to Southern Army
Manchukuo 4 Construction Btn and 1 Artillery Regiment to Southern Army

Industrial Report
Supply 2,421,279
Fuel 990,296
Manpower 834 (1,346,197)
Heavy Industry 15,171 (181,674)
Resources 19,502 (1,995,387)
Oil 2,270 (435,905)

Numbers continue to climb! Heavy Industry�s surplus rose from 116,000 to 181,000! Fuel rose some and I repaired 62 Oil Centers for the month.

Shipyards
Naval 1,366 (2,668)
Merchant 981 (2)
Repair 1,508

Battleships
Musashi (31 Days)---Accelerated

Carriers
Katsuragi (181 Days)--Accelerated
Kasagi (525 Days)
Aso (568 Days)
Ikoma (575 Days)
Ibuki (530 Days)

Launched BB-Hybrids Ise/Hyuga and 8 DD. As soon as Musashi is completed, I will accelerate the 3 CV and 1 CVL listed under Katsuagi.

Weapons
Armament 572 (67,499)
Vehicles 179 (7,987)

Have turned off about 50% of my armaments and vehicles to boost Heavy Industry.

Aircraft
Engines 2,183
Assembly 1,602+(130-Rd)

Assembly jumped over 100 airframes and research should begin to grow again as the late-war models start to get heavily researched.

Engine Production
Mitsubishi 652 (128)�Need 702�1,718 in Pool
Nakajima 1,199�Need 1,048---886 in Pool
Kawasaki 260---Need 290---191 in Pool
Aichi 72 (8)---Need 98---221 in Pool

These may be pretty close to final production numbers for the rest of the war. My Pools for Mitsubishi and Nakajima are climbing and Kawasaki will begin to climb as well as I shift some production away from the Tony-C to Frank.

Plane Production
Fighters Planes/Month (in Pool)
A6M2 0 (204)
A6M3 0 (18)
A6M3a 0 (83)
Oscar 0 (248)
Oscar IIa 0 (173)
Tojo 76 (2)
Tony 0 (192)
Jack 194 (463)
A6M5c 45 (80)
A6M5 214 (21)
Oscar III 22 (88)
Ki-61 Tony 290 (3)
N1K1 George 47 (0)---ONE month early!
Frank 1a 38-Rd (08/44)
Frank 1c 10-Rd (12/44)

I backed off the Jacks some because I need the M5 for the Fleet. Everything else is rolling along pretty well. Have been shifting around airframes a lot as I train in China and then go to a high supply base to new planes.

Bombers
Betty 0 (400)
Betty 2 74 (49)
Frances 89 (0)---Just went into production.
Sally 45 (136)
Helen 131 (118)
Peggy 56-Rd (10/44)
Lily 40 (84)
Nick-a 10 (13)
Nick-b 12 (0)
Val 0 (466)
Kate 0 (203)
Judy 98 (34)
Jill 120 (24)
Grace (6/44)

I cut production of Lily and Sally and bumped Frances and Peggy. Am exchanging Jills and Judys as fast as possible. Will add some research to those wonderful Grace�s!

Recon/Float
Emily 20 (1)
Alf 0 (14)
Pete 0 (70)
Pete A 0 (54)
Rufe 6 (8)
Glen 4 (41)
Dinah 0 (0)
Irving-R 35 (93)
Irving-S 23 (36)
Jake 0 (71)
Babs 0 (0)
Dinah-3 18 (3)

Emilys seem to be falling from the skies! I shut down the Jakes and add their numbers to Emily. Have a small Recon plane crisis so I bumped Dinah-3 up some.

Transports
Tina 0 (48)
Sally 0 (1)
Topsy 7 (9)
Mavis-L 5 (14)
Tabby 0 (100)

Shut down Tina and moved it elsewhere.

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Post #: 851

RE: November 1, 1943 VP--Industrial Report - 7/2/2008 2:21:46 AM

BLurking

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Just a suggestion, but in the later war years I found the Japanese heavy supply subs to be of great use - couldn't get enough of them. I accelerated them as much as possible, to the expense of every other ship class. CVs that arrived in '44, not so much. Pretty much target practice for the allies, and not useful for much other than raiding.

Couple of supply subs kept Singapore going until mid '45. Good stuff.

(in reply to John 3rd)

Post #: 852

RE: November 1, 1943 VP--Industrial Report - 7/2/2008 3:30:42 AM

John 3rd

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BLurking welcome to the AAR! I'll check those SS out. I've never used them so I look.

Michael---I will send you a recent turn in a few minutes.

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Post #: 853

RE: November 1, 1943 VP--Industrial Report - 7/2/2008 1:04:01 PM

ny59giants

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Now that I have received a recent turn, here are some screen shots.

The overview shows that John needs to send supplies to both Palembang as this base is below the magic level of 10k and soon to be Balikpapan as this base will go below 10 in just over one week. So, repairs are either stopped or will be soon.

John - there are 12k in supplies at Toboali; 37k at Batavia; 27k at Soerabaja; and 17k at Tarakan. Please send AKs to some of them to move supplies.

Extra Fuel - there is 22k at Shikuka; 18k at Konan; 16k at Hong Kong; and 30k on Hokkaido Island at various bases.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 854

RE: November 1, 1943 VP--Industrial Report - 7/2/2008 1:08:48 PM

ny59giants

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Next, we get a shot of air production and engines.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 855

RE: November 1, 1943 VP--Industrial Report - 7/2/2008 1:13:47 PM

ny59giants

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Now, we move over to R&D airframes. Please note I have highlighted the Grace.

John - you will need to address the supply issue at Sasebo for these to be repaired.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 856

RE: November 1, 1943 VP--Industrial Report - 7/2/2008 1:19:09 PM

ny59giants

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Down to the shipyards for a visit and we see the last BB is only 3 days away from completion.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 857

RE: November 1, 1943 VP--Industrial Report - 7/2/2008 1:23:44 PM

ny59giants

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Now, to the ground forces that will hopefully slow down the Allies.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 858

RE: November 1, 1943 VP--Industrial Report - 7/2/2008 1:33:49 PM

ny59giants

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Here is a list of ships overdue for upgrades.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 859

RE: November 1, 1943 VP--Industrial Report - 7/2/2008 5:06:21 PM

n01487477

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re: Economic Report
All looks good except Merchant Ship building ... this back up will continue, and I guess eventually those ships are just target practice for American aviators anyway.

You're still down 194 Oil Ctrs to break even, but it's getting there slowly ... I'm not sure I'd continue repairing those Res Ctrs, especially with the small supply on hand, but up to you.

I guess-timate your HI usage at about 11 K, so you are within good limits to continue expanding / horde HI until some HI plants get taken / damaged. But as is always, your main priority is to get those Oil Ctrs repaired and get an Oil surplus for '44 & beyond ... 200K HI is only 20 days without OIL. So listen to Michael here ...

Also, I just wonder why you have 80 Mitsubishi engine factories which are not building, especially when you are repairing another 100+ ? ... you are currently losing 174 a month, at least make it stretch out a bit ... (this will only cost you another 80*18/30 = 42 HI/day ... well worth the expenditure.

Also I notice that a lot of your grps need reinforcements, esp Jack,Tony, Betty and Nick need planes & you have some in the pool ...

As a side note, you've also got a A6M5 grp arriving tomorrow, but maybe not enough planes to fill it out ...

--- Damian ---

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 7/2/2008 5:11:15 PM >

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Post #: 860

RE: November 1, 1943 VP--Industrial Report - 7/2/2008 7:59:42 PM

John 3rd

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From: La Salle, Colorado
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Damian:

1. Those resources at Palembang and Balikpapan aren't repairing at all.
2. More supply is headed to both locations to keep repairs going.
3. I have been using EVERY M5 produced to go on the CVs for the Battle with the US Fleet.
4. Will check on the Mitsubishi...
5. I know that 200,000 won't last long but it sure is a lot better then where we were just 2-3 months ago!

Thanks for the thoughts!

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Post #: 861

The Coming Storm - 7/2/2008 8:02:05 PM

John 3rd

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Nemo---your whole philosophy about how to defeat the US Navy in 1943 MIGHT be put to the test over the next couple of days...

I mis-added the total fighter count on the screenshot. It should read 739.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 862

The Coming Storm, Order of Battle - 7/2/2008 8:39:01 PM

John 3rd

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Kaigun�Kido Butai
Final Order-of-Battle

This is the Operational deployment of the Japanese Fleet for the �final� battle. I list the number, type, and skill level of the Daitai on each of the CVs:

Kaigun

CTF-1             Adm Nagumo                           Total: 150 M5
CV Akagi         24 M5 (76)�27 M5 (77)        AA: 6008
CV Kaga         24 M5 (75)---48 M5 (80)
CVL Ryuho      27 M5 (83)

BB Ise, Hyuga
CA Atago, Chokai
CL Oyodo
DD 9

CTF-2             Adm Yamada                           Total: 124 M5 and 27 M3a
CV Hiryu         21 M5 (74)---27 M5 (72)        AA: 4560
CV Soryu         21 M5 (82)�27 M3a (67)
CVL Ryujo      28 M5 (78)---27 M5 (73)

BB Nagato
CA Tone, Chikuma
CL 2
DD 8

CTF-3             Adm Yamaguchi                       Total: 78 M5 and 61 M3a
CV Shokaku    24 M5 (75)---25 M3a (74)      AA: 5519
CV Zuikaku     24 M5 (76)---36 M3a (66)
CVL Shoho      27 M5 (75)

BC Kongo
CA Myoko, Takao, Maya
CL 1
DD 8

CTF-4             Adm Ozawa                             Total:   108 M5 and 27 M3a
CV Unryu        27 M5 (73)---27 M5 (70)        AA: 4679
CV Amagi        27 M5 (75)---27 M5 (75)
CVL Zuiho       27 M3a (75)

BC Yamato
CA Nachi, Ashigara
CL 1
DD 9

CTF-5             Adm Ishikawa                          Total: 54 M3a
CV Taiho         27 M3a (73)                            AA: 3241
CVL Chiyoda   27 M3a (74)

BB Mutsu
CA Mogami, Suzuya
CL 2
DD 9

CTF-6                                                             Total: 27 A3a�27 M3a
CVE Shinyo     27 M5 (71)                              AA: 2041
CVE Unyo       27 M3a (66)

CA Furutaka
CL 1
DD 7

CTF-7             Adm Yoshino                           Total: 5 M5---27 M3a
CVE Hosho     5 M5 (79)                                AA: 1682
CVE Chuyo     27 M3a (64)

CA Suzuya, Kumano
CL 2
DD 7

CTF 8              Adm Kusakabe                        Total: 24 M3a
CVE Taiyo       24 M3a (60)
CVE Kaiyo

CL 1
DD 6

I am trying to get another Daitai flown to Taiho and Kaiyo. Don�t know if I can yet so I will wait for the next turn�

All Fighters are set at 90% CAP at a Range of 1 with some M5 at 25,000, most M5 at 20,000, and all A3a at 15,000.

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Post #: 863

The Coming Storm, November 15, 1943 - 7/2/2008 10:27:51 PM

John 3rd

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Here are the movements and developments for November 15th. It appears that Dan is ignoring my advance from Saipan and is looking to hit Kadina or--less likely--Naha. The die will be cast by tomorrow.

I have moved nearly 1000 aircraft to Formosa and Southern Japan. They will wait for the carrier battle and then throw everything they have at the American Force...

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Post #: 864

NE Australia - 7/2/2008 10:43:07 PM

John 3rd

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From: La Salle, Colorado
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While waiting for the next turn I thought I would show portions of Australia.

Dan has moved up the coast slowly and reached the extremes. I hold Cloncurry with a token force to keep him watched and honest. If he choose to drive up that trail, he will find it rough going and will take FOREVER! If he does make that push then I will withdraw from Broken Hill and Adelaide so I can hold NW Australia.

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Post #: 865

Southern Australia - 7/2/2008 10:55:36 PM

John 3rd

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From: La Salle, Colorado
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...and the Southern portion...

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Post #: 866

"Just a bit outside!" - 7/3/2008 12:04:16 AM

John 3rd

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Dan and I miss contact by just 1 or 2 hexes! He is withdrawing as I expected he would. I'll give it a day and then move in to trip his attacks...

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Post #: 867

Moving along... - 7/3/2008 2:26:07 PM

John 3rd

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Getting ready to run my first turn today but have to caution everyone that I spend 50% of the day with my Father on Thursdays. He has had a stroke some years ago so I visit him on a regular schedule.

Nemo sent me a PM about using this opportunity to rebase the Fleet in Japan or Formosa and I had the same idea when I realized that Dan was probably not going to fight my Fleet. Some of my ships need repairs and as Michael demonstrated with his Tracker postings I have a bunch of ships needing upgrades. I will move towards Okinawa on this turn and then make a lunge towards Iwo Jima to see if I can trip an attack from his CVs. If neither is successful then I will retire towards Osaka and be able to spread the Fleet out around those ports for quick repairs and upgrades.

Nice thing about being right there, I shoudl be able to reform almost instantly whenever I need...

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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
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Post #: 868

RE: Moving along... - 7/3/2008 3:19:07 PM

bigbaba

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From: Koblenz, Germany
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i just wanted to say, that i am very impressed by your naval and air strength at this late time of the war...respect, john. i read your great AAR at work and wait for "the" battle.

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Post #: 869

RE: Moving along... - 7/3/2008 3:25:03 PM

VSWG