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RE: Furyouka-Go OOB - 2/18/2009 7:36:10 AM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1238
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		a impressive armada.

one question about your homeland air defence, john:

i would think that you have base forces with typ 13 or typ 21 radar systems in the towns, or?

and how do you manage the fighter defence. do you set multiple fighter squadrans on "LRCAP" without a specific target and hope that they intercept enemy bombers flying to their targets in japan? or do you have specific targets for your LRCAP?

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 1681
RE: Furyouka-Go OOB - 2/18/2009 7:55:27 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

a impressive armada.

one question about your homeland air defence, john:

i would think that you have base forces with typ 13 or typ 21 radar systems in the towns, or?

and how do you manage the fighter defence. do you set multiple fighter squadrans on "LRCAP" without a specific target and hope that they intercept enemy bombers flying to their targets in japan? or do you have specific targets for your LRCAP?



the base forces get the type 13 air search radar.

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Post #: 1682
RE: Furyouka-Go OOB - 2/18/2009 10:27:07 AM   
Mistmatz

 

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline 		To quote a fellow reader of this and probably also your opponents AAR:




(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1683
RE: Furyouka-Go OOB - 2/18/2009 11:36:04 AM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

To quote a fellow reader of this and probably also your opponents AAR:






Do you wish to imply anything ? If so, let me know and I'll be gone from this thread.

I try to follow one rule for games with AARs for both sides: Once you start posting more than once in one, stop reading the other - so you make sure you are not the one who unintentionally leaks information. I am not aware of having read the other side since I picked up posting here.

Hartwig

(in reply to Mistmatz)
Post #: 1684
RE: Furyouka-Go OOB - 2/18/2009 12:22:55 PM   
Mistmatz

 

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline 		Hartwig, I don't want to imply anything. Actually I wasn't even refering to you. Perhaps a case of english not being my mother tongue. Sorry if I offended you or anybody else, it was definately unintentionally.

I just wanted to express the tension and fun I'm experiencing reading this thread and also the counterpart.

(in reply to modrow)
Post #: 1685
RE: Furyouka-Go OOB - 2/18/2009 2:27:12 PM   
vettim89


Posts: 3615
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

Hartwig, I don't want to imply anything. Actually I wasn't even refering to you. Perhaps a case of english not being my mother tongue. Sorry if I offended you or anybody else, it was definately unintentionally.

I just wanted to express the tension and fun I'm experiencing reading this thread and also the counterpart.


I read both AAR's and therefore normally refrain from posting in either other than posts like the one above to the effect of I am really having a lot of fun. I did enter the discussion in Dan's AAR regarding victory conditions but that had almost nothing to do with the actual play of this game. I think when this game concludes these two AAR's will live for months as we will all be free to speak and the discussions will go on for a while

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(in reply to Mistmatz)
Post #: 1686
RE: Furyouka-Go OOB - 2/18/2009 3:53:34 PM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline 		Mistmatz,

thanks for the clarification. I might simply have misunderstood - English is not my mother tongue either plus probably I am presently thin-skinned because I don't have a PBEM going and don't have the time to pick up a new one for 4-6 more weeks But then...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

Hartwig, I don't want to imply anything. Actually I wasn't even refering to you. Perhaps a case of english not being my mother tongue. Sorry if I offended you or anybody else, it was definately unintentionally.

I just wanted to express the tension and fun I'm experiencing reading this thread and also the counterpart.


I agree completely re. tension and fun. Excellent AAR by John.

Hartwig

(in reply to Mistmatz)
Post #: 1687
RE: Furyouka-Go OOB - 2/18/2009 4:34:34 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		You guys have no idea how fun it is for me to wake up, check the AAR and find that it has gone up 50-60 hits since I going to bed.  It is fun to know that a lot of people are enjoying my impending doom. 

TRUST ME--you will be rewarded with one heck of a swan song at the end of 1944! 

As to Bigbaba's question regarding CAP over Japan.  I should note that most of my army fighters are now back down to terrible experience.  Most are in the 50s now.  Only way to counter that is with numbers over the target.  I have about 50% of my fighters flying CAP 90% and the remaining 50% flying LRCAP Range 2.  This is effective in that nearly all of Dan's attacks go against the towns between Osaka--Toyama--Tokyo.  It has helped on Dan's multiple wave attacks.  His 3rd Wave is almost always without fighter escort and IF I can field a decent number of fighters for that attack I get pretty good results.

Castor was correct to bring to my attention the radar upgrade.  Though I have so-so pilots I am not getting bounced as often.

Vettim mentions a discussion of victory conditions on Dan's AAR.  This has been my basic fear for the last year.  He has been so fixated on how far down he was, then getting even, and now way ahead that I fear he won't try to finish me off.  He will just rely on his strategic bombers, sit back, and wait for the clock to run out.  That thought drives me nuts.  I am playing to win.  Even when I have lost I play to win.

Just witness events in about 4-6 weeks of gametime...





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(in reply to modrow)
Post #: 1688
RE: Furyouka-Go OOB - 2/18/2009 4:57:48 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

You guys have no idea how fun it is for me to wake up, check the AAR and find that it has gone up 50-60 hits since I going to bed.  It is fun to know that a lot of people are enjoying my impending doom. 

TRUST ME--you will be rewarded with one heck of a swan song at the end of 1944! 

As to Bigbaba's question regarding CAP over Japan.  I should note that most of my army fighters are now back down to terrible experience.  Most are in the 50s now.  Only way to counter that is with numbers over the target.  I have about 50% of my fighters flying CAP 90% and the remaining 50% flying LRCAP Range 2.  This is effective in that nearly all of Dan's attacks go against the towns between Osaka--Toyama--Tokyo.  It has helped on Dan's multiple wave attacks.  His 3rd Wave is almost always without fighter escort and IF I can field a decent number of fighters for that attack I get pretty good results.

Castor was correct to bring to my attention the radar upgrade.  Though I have so-so pilots I am not getting bounced as often.

Vettim mentions a discussion of victory conditions on Dan's AAR.  This has been my basic fear for the last year.  He has been so fixated on how far down he was, then getting even, and now way ahead that I fear he won't try to finish me off.  He will just rely on his strategic bombers, sit back, and wait for the clock to run out.  That thought drives me nuts.  I am playing to win.  Even when I have lost I play to win.

Just witness events in about 4-6 weeks of gametime...







John,

you can´t win anymore!

Seriously, the question of winning at this stage of the game can IMO only be asked in how does the situation look like in mid 45. Is it better for the Japanese than real life - then I would say YOU won, is it the same - then I would say it´s a DRAW, is it worse than in real life or is it a totally hopeless situation earlier than in real life - then I would say DAN won.

For me, the autovictory by points is nice, but not what should determine who wins. Of course the pure feeling who really won can only be agreed by the two players themselve I guess (with some feedback from the AAR contributors), this shouldn´t be a problem with someone that has played you for months/years and therefore was an honorable opponent.

Even if Dan sits back and doesn´t do much more than bombing Japan, if he succeeds in more or less totally destroying Japan´s industrial potential then IMO he won, no matter if you still hold the Philipines for example, or the Solomons, or some Pacific atolls. If your industrial output is down to 15-20% then who really cares if you hold Formosa? If you only see 2 out of 100 merchants return to Japan after being sent into the SRA to pick up oil/resources/supply then who cares if you still own Borneo?

You did a very good job in this campaign, hats off Sir, but IMO at the moment you´re struggling to avoid defeat. Why? Becasue the B-29, B-24, P-38 and P-51 are more and more bringing Dan into a war winning position.



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Post #: 1689
RE: Furyouka-Go OOB - 2/18/2009 5:27:10 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Of COURSE I can win!  There will be no defeatist talk around this AAR!  We have successfully lulled the enemy into THINKING he is winning.  BANZAI!!!  

Perhaps I am still suffering from Victory Disease?!! 

I concur with your thinking but I want to see the epic landings and truly get BEATEN by American strength of arms--not bombers dropping zillions of bombs onto Japan.  I want to still be around to see the mushroom clouds over Japan.  Now THERE is a sad thought...

Furouka-Go is a plan of desperate brilliance.  No one in their right mind would even contemplate this idea.  Just think of Hitler's position in France collapsing in July 1944 and he was already looking at a counter stroke at some place called the Ardennes.  Of course, OUR plan is far better and will--CERTAINLY--succeed where Hitler's didn't work out so well...



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(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1690
RE: Furyouka-Go OOB - 2/18/2009 6:23:18 PM   
Mistmatz

 

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline 		A game of this proportion is a completely different category.

After thousands of hours of gameplay, thinking about the game, e-mailing back and forth, experiencing moments of biggest joy and utter defeat you either win both or you loose both.

Personally I think you're both winners.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 1691
Nice - 2/18/2009 6:35:24 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Ahhhhhhhhhh....

Feel like we need a group hug!

Thanks though.

Just got a turn from Dan so will run it and see if there are any good screenshots within it.



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Post #: 1692
RE: Nice - 2/18/2009 8:40:57 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		I want a thread locked to John & Dan so we can have WAG's to the target of his push.

My guess is ........................................


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Post #: 1693
RE: Nice - 2/18/2009 8:52:53 PM   
dekwik


Posts: 90
Joined: 9/22/2007
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		Keep on fighting John. IMO a good Japan player doesn't concede until Tokyo is a green base. Even if it ends as a smoking ruin, if it's a Japanese smoking ruin you still win in my book
BANZAI!!

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 1694
RE: Nice - 2/19/2009 2:38:01 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		THAT IS THE RIGHT SPIRIT!  We are--after all--Samurai. 

To quote someone----"You can pry it from my cold, dead hands!"

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Post #: 1695
RE: Nice - 2/19/2009 2:41:24 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

I want a thread locked to John & Dan so we can have WAG's to the target of his push.

My guess is ........................................



How bout we take reader's bets and then--after careful review--I will make the announcement??!! That could actually be fun! Many of you have been long term readers. How well do you know the author of this AAR?

Lurkers--please come up from the muck--and place your bet.

WHERE do you think Japan's Operation Downfall is going???

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Post #: 1696
RE: Nice - 2/19/2009 3:10:38 AM   
vettim89


Posts: 3615
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

I want a thread locked to John & Dan so we can have WAG's to the target of his push.

My guess is ........................................



How bout we take reader's bets and then--after careful review--I will make the announcement??!! That could actually be fun! Many of you have been long term readers. How well do you know the author of this AAR?

Lurkers--please come up from the muck--and place your bet.

WHERE do you think Japan's Operation Downfall is going???


Ceylon.

A. Can only be retaken by amph assualt (i.e., Dan can't march there)
B. Completely cuts off Dan's SEAC offensive from their supply hub
C. Away from the huge USE CV fleet which could only intervene by either running the gauntlet through a huge zone of Japanese influence or by taking such a long tedious route as to arrive too late. Even if the LBA in the CENTPAC and SRA does not sink the USN carriers, it will dissipate the air wings. If Dan were to try to force the issue by bringing a bunch of CVE with VR sq, they again would slow the force down to the point where they would arrive too late.
D. The KB has a much better chance of defeating the RN than the USN
E. These bases are likely lightly garrisoned by REMF as the forward lines are far to the east of here now
F. Far away from the most likely points where Dan has his AV Support concentrated = minimal LBA interference
G. Can be attacked by a more stealthy route along the left map edge
E. Unlike other options, will force Dan to reverse course because if he doesn't he will have a million starving troops very quickly

I say this honestly knowing nothing about Dan's dispositions at these bases. For all I know, there are ten Divisions each at Trico and Colombo or there may be two BF's at each base. I really have no idea.

Assuming SGT Schultz mode - I KNOW NOTHING! NOTHING AT ALL

_____________________________

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Post #: 1697
RE: Nice - 2/19/2009 3:15:06 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		One vote for Ceylon!

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Post #: 1698
RE: Nice - 2/19/2009 4:56:30 AM   
Mad66

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 10/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

One vote for Ceylon!


Make that two.

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Post #: 1699
RE: Nice - 2/19/2009 8:05:05 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Where do we think you're going OR where do we think you should go?


I don't think you'll go for Ceylon as the Allies can just ignore you if you do... There are two airbases, they can gain aerial superiority and suppress two airbases easily enough if they want and your ground troops will be trapped.

India is something I think you'd like to go for. I think it is less achievable than you might think but I'm sure tis a glittering prize. The question really comes down to what you have available. I'm assuming you have about 1500 to 2000 AV in Java which escaped from Malaysia and rebuilt. IMO that's not sufficient to do more than fortify Java and northern Borneo and unless you can free 4,000+ AV you shouldn't go into India. Do I think you could free 4,000+ AV. Yes and under those circumstances India becomes somewhat doable.


With what you have available that readers are aware of the best you can do is take Burma out of the reckoning but I think that's still a bit of a reach too far for you unless combined with a serious resource bombing campaign of Malaysia to NECESSITATE sea resupply of Malaysia past Burma.


Basically though, it all depends on the land forces you have freed up.

1000 to 1500 AV makes Ceylon and Burma possible ( Ceylon would definitely not be a good choice here ).

4000 to 5000 AV makes India possible.

(in reply to Mad66)
Post #: 1700
RE: Nice - 2/19/2009 9:39:57 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		From Soerbaja???

India (Calcutta, Chittagong, Diamond Harbour, Coxs Bazaar, one has to be lightly held)

Perth, or a someone else did, Geelong & Melbourne.  Doesnt do anything, just for fun.


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Post #: 1701
RE: Nice - 2/19/2009 1:05:06 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		I say no to India and Oz as it'll just serve to get a large force cut off and eventually destroyed.  Now if we talk about something that will eliminate the Allied LBA attacks that are choking off the SRA it makes sense.  Without resources and oil Japan is doomed and with these she can continue to fight on, thereby possibly squeezing out a victory just by survival and elimination of Allied bases & assets.  It's as much a game of points as it is the quest for a marale victory.

Better to lose by going down fighting than by sitting back and dying a slow death.

BANZAI!


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Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 1702
RE: Nice - 2/19/2009 1:22:33 PM   
FOW

 

Posts: 499
Joined: 11/6/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		CEYLON

LBA won't be a big issue from Madras and other mainland based UNTIL BFs and Av Regts are moved by land back from the Malaya/Burma front lines. Moving by sea is possible but risky depending on how much LBA threat John is prepared to put KB under.
SLOC from Aden is cut.
Bring enough supply and AA units and Ceylon's reduction would be time consuming and slow forward operations.
Dan could ignore but resupply would be extremely hazardous.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 1703
RE: Nice - 2/19/2009 1:24:45 PM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline 		I doubt John has thought about the economic boon or bust of taking either India or Oz.

Neither of these places btw do anything for the economy - John needs Oil to survive, both India and Oz are net Oil loss nations. Burma has a little more but would be hard to hold.

Therefore (tongue in cheek)unless John wants to take on the might of Russia or invade the West Coast (both Oil rich nations) then this is nothing to do with economics but a whole lot to do with other aims and will hopefully hit the Allies where they are weakest - instead of going into the lions den.


Get some John ... Banzai!

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 1704
RE: Nice - 2/19/2009 1:48:18 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I would like to place my vote, but.....since I was part of the Naval General Staff that came up with this hair brain plan, I don't think Admiral Cochran-san would appreciate it. 

I just hope it doesn't end up like the plans of one of my favorite Looney Tune characters - Wild E. Coyote, GENIUS!!

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 1705
RE: Nice - 2/19/2009 1:54:34 PM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline 		Splitting hairs but wasn't it ... Wile E. Coyote ? Always liked Sylvester the cat or Mr Magoo ... so I hope this isn't "Thufferin' Thuccotash" ... [edit] of course Mr. M is more in keeping with my own ongoing PBEM.

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 2/19/2009 2:12:46 PM >

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Post #: 1706
RE: Nice - 2/19/2009 4:09:24 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

I doubt John has thought about the economic boon or bust of taking either India or Oz.

Neither of these places btw do anything for the economy - John needs Oil to survive, both India and Oz are net Oil loss nations. Burma has a little more but would be hard to hold.

Therefore (tongue in cheek)unless John wants to take on the might of Russia or invade the West Coast (both Oil rich nations) then this is nothing to do with economics but a whole lot to do with other aims and will hopefully hit the Allies where they are weakest - instead of going into the lions den.


Get some John ... Banzai!



Don´t know exactly about BigB 1.4 but even if India is a net oil loss place that doesn´t matter. You don´t have to bring in oil and will still get hundreds, perhaps a thousand? HI points every day with the oil that is produced there. You don´t lose a single oil point if he´s able to take India but would gain HI. But IMO it´s insane to think about an attack on India at this stage of the war. Would be fun, but would be more insane in the game than the Ardennes offensive in real life.



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Post #: 1707
RE: Nice - 2/19/2009 5:20:19 PM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

I doubt John has thought about the economic boon or bust of taking either India or Oz.

Neither of these places btw do anything for the economy - John needs Oil to survive, both India and Oz are net Oil loss nations. Burma has a little more but would be hard to hold.

Therefore (tongue in cheek)unless John wants to take on the might of Russia or invade the West Coast (both Oil rich nations) then this is nothing to do with economics but a whole lot to do with other aims and will hopefully hit the Allies where they are weakest - instead of going into the lions den.


Get some John ... Banzai!

Don´t know exactly about BigB 1.4 but even if India is a net oil loss place that doesn´t matter. You don´t have to bring in oil and will still get hundreds, perhaps a thousand? HI points every day with the oil that is produced there. You don´t lose a single oil point if he´s able to take India but would gain HI. But IMO it´s insane to think about an attack on India at this stage of the war. Would be fun, but would be more insane in the game than the Ardennes offensive in real life.

I take your point Castor -but just so you know (and I am looking at the data for BB1.5) India only has 90 Oil Cntrs (540 Oil/day) & 2260 HI at the beginning of the game(Once again I am not looking at John's game) ... so unless there is a load of Oil there already... but as I said in my original post answering Tocaff, I don't believe this about economics or a grab for Oil.

I don't know what he is thinking - but it is mighty interesting.

Sorry gang - back to regular scheduling.

[edit] just noticed I hit over the 1000 posts and gained another star almost 3 years to the day I joined this forum

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 2/19/2009 5:24:06 PM >

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1708
ASW Fracas and Movement - 2/19/2009 5:50:50 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Wild and crazy as the Fleet and Invasion Force gets into position. Dan and I only got two turns in yesterday and the day before so we haven't been moving too quick.

ASW Action:
Sept 15th LBA hits SS Statesman and SINKS it, ASW Cripples SS

Sept 16th LBA hits SS, SS Finback hits PC w/Torp but gets smacked by DC, SS Sea Dog hits PC with Torp and escapes with no damage

Sept 17th LBA scores THREE hits on SS around Java, SS Croaker hits a Jap mine, and an SS plants 2 Torps into an empty AP as it approaches Amboina to pick-up an Aviation Regiment for Downfall.


There is a bunch of information on this screenshot:






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1709
Scale and Scope - 2/19/2009 6:16:08 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Furyouka-Go
Order-of-Battle  

Nemo wants to know the scale of the Invasion.  Total Assault value is right around 3,300.  Another Infantry Division may be assigned if shipping is available.  These are the units detailed for the invasion:  

Headquarters
2nd Area Army, Command HQ
33rd Army HQ
21st Air Flotilla    

Infantry            (1725)
1st Guards Inf Div (450)                    
103rd Inf Div (410)
102nd Inf Div (325)                           
46th Inf Div (410)                           
1st/2nd Parachute Rgt (60/60)              

Armor             (1350)
1st TK Div (330)
2nd TK Div (354)
3rd TK Div (375)
2nd/4th/8th/10th TK Reg (75 each)  

Engineers            (100)               
21st Reserve Eng Rgt (40)                
4th Eng Rgt (40)                                                                           
  
Aviation            (150)
11th Aviation Rgt
28th Special BF
122nd IJA BF  

Crated Aircraft
4 Sentai of Frank
2 Daitai of Zero
2 Daitai of Peggy
2 Units of Topsy
2 Units of Tina  

Supply 100,000

EDIT: I have added the 102nd Inf Div to the Order-of-Battle

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 2/19/2009 11:32:28 PM >

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