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RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting

 
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RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/9/2009 10:32:59 AM   
Bliztk


Posts: 779
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Electronic City
Status: offline 		When I play the Allies, there is nothing that makes me feel happy that the Japanese doing offensives in China. Those divisions are not guarding Iwo, Saipan, Tinian, Okinawa..... 

Sorry for the hickjacking


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(in reply to SierraJuliet)
Post #: 1891
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/9/2009 5:53:45 PM   
FeurerKrieg


Posts: 3397
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

When I play the Allies, there is nothing that makes me feel happy that the Japanese doing offensives in China. Those divisions are not guarding Iwo, Saipan, Tinian, Okinawa..... 

Sorry for the hickjacking



Really? I suppose if you are confident of a stalemate maybe that would make you happy, but I think if I was Allied I would hate to lose China because then a lot of ground forces are free for Iwo, Saipan etc in late 43 when they are needed there the most. And I think AARs have shown a well planned Japanese attack can succeed in China within the first 1-2 years of the war.

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Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

(in reply to Bliztk)
Post #: 1892
The Hen House! - 3/9/2009 6:49:15 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		OK. The Fleet is in and can begin my move to its opening positions for Downfall.

The whole point of spreading the CVs out is that I will have exactly ONE DAY of non-interference! Banking on that means spreading out to do as much chaos, find targets, and sink ships as possible on DAY ONE! Day Two will see the Northern CV TF unite and the Southern CV TF unite as well. Based on resistance that day will be the decision to unify the entire Fleet together on Day Three.

Hope that makes sense.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 3/9/2009 7:38:50 PM >

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(in reply to FeurerKrieg)
Post #: 1893
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/9/2009 6:57:06 PM   
flaggelant


Posts: 262
Joined: 1/25/2009
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		Thnx for the more than complete answer john, detailed as allways

as to bomber/fighter opposition, do you expect any at all?
i recall to karachi having a static baseforce in stock games, but otherwise it looks like there would be entirely no aviation support on indian ground? only the soryu TF might encounter some from long range Burma planes

have you thought about raiding the ceylon repair docks (assuming theres something in there?) if there are no planes showing up to fight the KB?

(in reply to FeurerKrieg)
Post #: 1894
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/9/2009 7:44:22 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		MICHAEL????  Can you answer this?  Mike (the Former Retired Economics Minister and personal Therapist for the Emperor) has a solid grasp of this. 

I expect NO RESISTANCE on the first day.  Day Two will bring in very tired 4EB crews who have to make a long flight.  There is the very real possibility that Dan may choose to ignore my attack for the first day or two until he realizes the Invasion Force's scope and scale. 

This is the reason why I have an imbedded Fast Transport TF carrying the 3rd Cavalry Regiment.  This TF will spring ahead and grab Trivandrum so Dan cannot see ANY of the other units I am landing.  Should keep surprise on my side for the ground portion for a few days.  TRULY Hope Triv is empty...  If it isn't then I will make a massed landing to grab it.




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(in reply to flaggelant)
Post #: 1895
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/9/2009 7:51:29 PM   
Panther Bait


Posts: 654
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		Are you planning a port strike on Bombay?  Looks like possible shipping sitting in port there.

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When you shoot at a destroyer and miss, it's like hit'in a wildcat in the ass with a banjo.

Nathan Dogan, USS Gurnard

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 1896
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/9/2009 7:58:34 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I like that idea.  Could be part of the Day Two Tasking...

Any other ideas along those lines.  That is a darned fine idea I had not thought about...



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(in reply to Panther Bait)
Post #: 1897
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/9/2009 8:31:08 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		I would be shocked if there was anything in India other than Static Base Forces and Patrol Planes. With all that warfare in SE Asia, it's a for sure that Dan pulled out everything not nailed down. He probably thinks subs are the only Japs he'll see over there. Doesn't even look like he has patrol planes even, other than Ceylon.

John is right, no opposition. I wouldn't expect much in terms of targets in Bombay harbor though.

I think getting ashore will be easy, and you'll roll Southern India until some Allies show up to stop you.

Most of those towns in Big B, Mangalore, Pangim, Madras, Bombay, do have static base forces though, so you can expect aircraft as soon as he can shuttle them in.

Should be fun! I don't think Dan can starve you out, because you'll capture supply sources, and there are probably huge stockpiles down there as it is.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 3/9/2009 8:34:21 PM >

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(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 1898
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/9/2009 8:51:56 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I LIKE that kind of thinking My MOST ESTEEMED PARTNER in warcraft!  I am still buzzing over grabbing Wellington so easily in our game.

Think you are correct.  Just got another turn done and I-48 got that AK it hit the previous turn.  That makes 3 AK for her on this patrol.  The ships sunk carrying troops of the 82nd West Africane Inf Div.  Plan on that WHOLE convoy being sunk within about 5 days.

Had another thought and pulled 4 ships out of the Invasion force:  2 carry 20th Engineering Reg and 2 carry 1st Aviation Reg with about 3,000 supplies.  They will take Addu Atoll when Trivandrum falls.  My Emily can fly to the base and provide real recon and naval search.



< Message edited by John 3rd -- 3/9/2009 8:52:54 PM >

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(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 1899
Canton Seige - 3/9/2009 8:52:34 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Just so you can see:






Attachment (1)

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Reluctant Admiral Mod:
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(in reply to Bliztk)
Post #: 1900
RE: Canton Seige - 3/9/2009 9:00:44 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Thank you SIR!

Man, I cannot wait to read Dan's AAR when he see the convoys. THAT will be interesting. I can't wait! Get ashore!

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(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 1901
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/9/2009 9:03:03 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

MICHAEL???? Can you answer this? Mike (the Former Retired Economics Minister and personal Therapist for the Emperor) has a solid grasp of this.


The reason other potential landing pints were not choosen was the lack of BB's and the need to keep the few remaining CA's with the carriers. An attack on Colombo for day 2 or later is a possibility, but the focus will be getting the troops ashore, moving inland, and hopefully moving up the coast and taking Bombay. These all have to be done by land due to the static BF with their CD guns. There are over 300 Aviation Support in the 6 BF to be overcome. The best way will be landing with as little disruption as possible and unleashing the Armor.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 1902
RE: Canton Seige - 3/9/2009 9:11:05 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		You have no idea how much I WANT to pull the trigger right now!  I know I have gotten into the back yard but I want to get the Invasion Force as close as possible to Trivandrum BEFORE attacking. 

Preferably I would like to be 2-3 days out from landing when the Kaigun Strikes.  Theoretically that should be about Nov 3rd with the Landing on the 5th.  My Fast Transport TF will spring forward and take the target on the day when things open up.

Grabbing Addu will help take the Naval Search burden off of my planes as well.  I have 4 fully staffed Emily Chutai at Benkolen ready to go!

Just sent the October 31st turn to Dan and will do it before going to see Paula and tackling taxes tonight.  Will get another turn done this evening when I get back.  That should get us to November 2nd.  Figure ALL HELL BREAKS LOSE tomorrow readers.

This Operation will be a blast but I am letting you know that I expect to lose EVERYTHING!  It will not be the purposeful intention to have the Kaigun go down here but I intend to raise some hell and stick around a bit before heading for Soerabaja.  Once the Army is ashore it will be up to them.  Nothing more can be accomplished by the Navy from that point on...

Being hopeful....I have 100,000 fuel heading for Soerabaja just in case I can use it with a follow-on Operation in the Bay of Bengal.  Got to plan ahead...

(Would love to be a fly on the wall in Dan's AAR when Operation Downfall is revealed for the massive scale that it is!!  )


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(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 1903
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/9/2009 9:13:44 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

MICHAEL???? Can you answer this? Mike (the Former Retired Economics Minister and personal Therapist for the Emperor) has a solid grasp of this.


The reason other potential landing pints were not choosen was the lack of BB's and the need to keep the few remaining CA's with the carriers. An attack on Colombo for day 2 or later is a possibility, but the focus will be getting the troops ashore, moving inland, and hopefully moving up the coast and taking Bombay. These all have to be done by land due to the static BF with their CD guns. There are over 300 Aviation Support in the 6 BF to be overcome. The best way will be landing with as little disruption as possible and unleashing the Armor.




Speaking of the Devil! Shouldn't one of us be working? I'm unemployed and hunted by the LAW. What is your excuse Sir?

Seriously though...I think everyone is right. All that will need to be overcome for the first 7-10 days will be LBA and the Static units. I am landing with 100,000 supply so that should carry for a while and then we hope to grab as much as possible from the towns we capture.

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 3/9/2009 9:14:56 PM >

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(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1904
RE: Canton Seige - 3/9/2009 9:18:58 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


(Would love to be a fly on the wall in Dan's AAR when Operation Downfall is revealed for the massive scale that it is!!  )



I will be.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 1905
Medication Time - 3/9/2009 9:20:42 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Do you think he will need to take serious medication at that point??!!  

EDIT: Let us hear it for popcorn!!!

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 3/9/2009 9:21:01 PM >

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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
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(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 1906
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/9/2009 9:25:17 PM   
khyberbill


Posts: 1941
Joined: 9/11/2007
From: new milford, ct
Status: offline
quote:


John is right, no opposition. I wouldn't expect much in terms of targets in Bombay harbor though.

In every game I have played as Allies, I have lots of damaged merchant ships in Bombay and Karachi. Indian shipyards are not very efficient. There might be some nice targets there.

I have not read the whole AAR and this question might be addressed earlier; did you bring some Army fighters and bombers for CAP and spreading mayhem?

_____________________________

"Its a dog eat dog world Sammy and I am wearing Milkbone underwear" -Norm.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 1907
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/9/2009 9:31:40 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Speaking of the Devil! Shouldn't one of us be working? I'm unemployed and hunted by the LAW. What is your excuse Sir?


I had to use the alarm clock and get up at 5am to be in the office to deal with suicidal and homicidal children at 6am. I get done at 6pm. I've had 9 calls from our part of the state and all have required to me to send out counselors. I think 3 will need to be put in a psychiatric hospital. That was the easy part. Later, I have to put all my clinicial notes into the computer system. Thankfully, I don't deal with the adult population much...just the parents.

I will stop and get an "oil can" on the way home. A very large Foster beer.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 1908
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/9/2009 10:59:44 PM   
bbbf

 

Posts: 493
Joined: 7/16/2000
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		Ahh, Fosters, a beer so bad that even us Aussies couldn't drink it - that's why we exported it to the rest of the world!



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Robert Lee

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1909
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/9/2009 11:07:35 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		LOVE the Oil Can!!! Of course, I cannot since I am on Probation at the moment but can I sympathetically have a taste of yours??!! Sounds like a rough day.

Well let me show what a rough day is going to be on November 3, 1944. Here is the current status:






PS: Kyber I have 300 aircraft (Fighter/Bomber/Transport) being carried by a TF just passing Addu. It is running about 3 days behind everyone due to some very SLOW AK!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 3/9/2009 11:08:54 PM >

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Reluctant Admiral Mod:
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(in reply to bbbf)
Post #: 1910
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/10/2009 12:05:51 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		MIke, if you deal with their parents then you have my sympathy. The kids might be cracked but 9 times out of 10 ( the exceptions being true psychosis etc ) I felt I could do more with a "parentectomy" than I could with any amount of counselling and medications.

So, while I DO understand how you could feel low right now do you REALLY feel bad enough to subject yourself to a Foster's? I mean, sure, it might be better than American beer but that's like saying being burnt alive is better than being eaten alive by rats. Me I'd prefer to go out with a bit of coitus interruptus --- aka vodka, straight - no ice, no mixer, possibly with a bit of black pepper sprinkled on top. Now THAT will make you forget all about your work worries....

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 1911
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/10/2009 12:44:36 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Nemo--That is one of your funnier postings!  After six+ months of probation (sans alcohol) I would kill for a very good bottle of Travicello or a Spatlesse.


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(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 1912
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/10/2009 12:57:12 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I ended up changing my mind when at the store, but the size was more important....LARGE!! I got a 6-pack of Samuel Adams "Boston Lager." Back in the late 80's I use to drink a British labeled beer call "Samuel Smith," I think. It was near the top in expensiveness at the local beer distributor. Great for Sunday American football.

Nemo - I was doing triage for 12 hours and sending out counselors to determine the best disposition.  I had 11 calls and it looks like 3 were hospitalized. Many of the school now call us due to liability issues to let the "experts" determine the outcome. 

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 1913
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/10/2009 12:58:21 AM   
flaggelant


Posts: 262
Joined: 1/25/2009
From: Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

"Do you know where your Kaigun is???"   
 
 

 
i guess the emperor of japan was finally starting to wonder what it is you'r up to now?



Wouldnt you feel that dropping an entire aviation regiment on addu, just for supporting emilies is a bit overdone?
the non-existent runway is a good thing, but wouldnt you be running low on aviation support for the LBA?
In a summary of your "units to bring allong list" you mentioned 3 aviation units (actually 1 and 2 baseforces)

seeing that you must keep moving to take all places before anything kan arrive to effectively defend
you'd have to keep shifting places fast, and with 2 units that would be very hard
(especially if you want to stay flexible in places to station your planes to prevent being bombed instantly)

was the "bring along list" from post 1738 (page 58) the final version? (and thus confirming 3 aviation units?)  

why not simply use subs(planes) for recon btw?
there were several glenn subs mentioned as being a part of the operation if i'm right


Jens

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 1914
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/10/2009 2:10:16 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Mike, CYA - Cover your Derriere. It began in America but it has spread here too. We're doing CTs on pretty much anything these days "just in case". It ain't medicine but its what you've got to do to survive.

It seems things are the same over there... This is why I wargame. Having to try to figure out some finely balanced IJN plan with only a 1% margin of error is downright relaxing compared to work ( as I'm sure you can agree ).


Now, back to suicidal Japanese planning, the sort of suicidal intent I don't legally have to intervene ( and fill out the paperwork to document my intervention  ) to stop

(in reply to flaggelant)
Post #: 1915
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/10/2009 2:47:59 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

We're doing CTs on pretty much anything these days "just in case". It ain't medicine but its what you've got to do to survive.


I still remember an ER doctor at the local county hospital I was working on weekends (7p to 7a shifts) while in college (early 90's). He stated that he knew the diagnosis and treatment for just about everything that came in, but due to liability did numerous test just for CYA.

The US gov't has just increased the spending for children's health care. To pay for it, they need "x" amount of new smokers...which will probably be children and/or young adults. Go figure!

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 1916
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/10/2009 3:30:41 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		I tell you, smoking is the BEDROCK of the Western health care system. Without smokers western health care systems would collapse.

I still remember reading a study which pointed out that because smokers generally die younger and less "traumatically" than many others ( who have MIs etc which are pretty survivable and so linger on using resources etc etc ) that there's actually a double-whammy of savings with smokers. They die younger so saving money BUT they also consume far fewer resources in the last 24 hours of their life ( in Ireland about 60% of a person's entire spending on their health occurs in the last 24 hours of life so even if you reduce spending in that 24 hrs by 50% you've saved 1/3rd of that person's entire lifetime of health costs ( to the state/insurer ) ). Overall smokers contribute far more to health coffers and, on average, die reassuringly younger and with less fuss. God bless them!!!


P.s. Before anyone posts in outrage. Yes, my tongue is firmly in cheek at how absurd such thinking is BUT the facts are right and there ARE actuaries in governments, health boards and insurance companies in the western world thanking their lucky stars for smokers right now as smokers help keep things afloat for the reasons above. Obesity will be the new smoking ( once they can agree that treatments for obesity are optional and thus they can reduce expenditure (boosting profits) whilst relying on obese individuals to die younger ).

Its enough to make you want to change careers and go into something more morally pure like the mafia or torching orphanages. *sigh*

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1917
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/10/2009 4:27:15 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flaggelant

quote:

"Do you know where your Kaigun is???"   
 
 

 
i guess the emperor of japan was finally starting to wonder what it is you'r up to now?



Wouldnt you feel that dropping an entire aviation regiment on addu, just for supporting emilies is a bit overdone?
the non-existent runway is a good thing, but wouldnt you be running low on aviation support for the LBA?
In a summary of your "units to bring allong list" you mentioned 3 aviation units (actually 1 and 2 baseforces)

seeing that you must keep moving to take all places before anything kan arrive to effectively defend
you'd have to keep shifting places fast, and with 2 units that would be very hard
(especially if you want to stay flexible in places to station your planes to prevent being bombed instantly)

was the "bring along list" from post 1738 (page 58) the final version? (and thus confirming 3 aviation units?)  

why not simply use subs(planes) for recon btw?
there were several glenn subs mentioned as being a part of the operation if i'm right


Jens


You know--I was moving so many units around I am not sure what my final OOB is! I know I added another Inf DIv so I had 3 TK Div and 4 Inf Div for heavy units. Past that I am somewhat lost.

The use of 1st Aviation at Addu is not the whole unit but a fragment so I can use my Emily there. Need the Engineers to give me a shot of putting it to Sz-1. Both units are roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of the existing parent that will land with everyone else.

_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to flaggelant)
Post #: 1918
RE: Southern China and ASW Fighting - 3/10/2009 4:29:50 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

I tell you, smoking is the BEDROCK of the Western health care system. Without smokers western health care systems would collapse.

I still remember reading a study which pointed out that because smokers generally die younger and less "traumatically" than many others ( who have MIs etc which are pretty survivable and so linger on using resources etc etc ) that there's actually a double-whammy of savings with smokers. They die younger so saving money BUT they also consume far fewer resources in the last 24 hours of their life ( in Ireland about 60% of a person's entire spending on their health occurs in the last 24 hours of life so even if you reduce spending in that 24 hrs by 50% you've saved 1/3rd of that person's entire lifetime of health costs ( to the state/insurer ) ). Overall smokers contribute far more to health coffers and, on average, die reassuringly younger and with less fuss. God bless them!!!


P.s. Before anyone posts in outrage. Yes, my tongue is firmly in cheek at how absurd such thinking is BUT the facts are right and there ARE actuaries in governments, health boards and insurance companies in the western world thanking their lucky stars for smokers right now as smokers help keep things afloat for the reasons above. Obesity will be the new smoking ( once they can agree that treatments for obesity are optional and thus they can reduce expenditure (boosting profits) whilst relying on obese individuals to die younger ).

Its enough to make you want to change careers and go into something more morally pure like the mafia or torching orphanages. *sigh*


Nemo--I have heard the same thing. I have worked (before life ended with my Court crap and Probation) in the Casino Industry here in Colorado as a Blackjack Pit Boss and I saw firsthand how the cancer sticks worked to lower our health cost yet PAY for many programs from their tax revenue. CRAZY WORLD!


_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 1919
...and yet AGAIN... - 3/10/2009 5:19:12 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Lordy...






Attachment (1)

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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
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(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 1920
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