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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> Coincidence?

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Coincidence? - 3/11/2009 2:12:39 AM

John 3rd

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Just sent this note to Dan with the next turn:

Good GAWD DAMN! You had to have known. Why else would a BB be parked where I plan to land? How would an Inf Div be where I planned to land?? I'll wager there are no other Infantry in India.

Someone had to have leaked this plan to you. I prepped NO ONE for this target. No Intel warning was possible. It has only been in the works for 10 game weeks...

I am slightly perturbed at the moment. Cannot believe that this is coincidence.

Three weeks ago I had an I-Boat sit in the hex for 4 days--no unit present. I did a Glen recon at the same time with 4 other Indian Ports (to hide my plan) and NOTHING was spotted. Not only is the 221st RAF BF (a large BF) at Trivandrum but also the 82nd Africane Inf Div. I partially unloaded 40% of my force prior to finding this out. Got a 1-1 and Lowered Forts to 8.

Well...this is a mission of the Samurai. I order EVERYTHING to unload. Will not attack tomorrow but will shock attack the day after. Divide the Landing TF into about 20 TF of 5-8 ships to lesson the airpower attacks coming.

Planes didn't fly again.

I had 2 CTF get attacked by 126 Fighters and THREE B-24 versus my CAP of 106 Zero. I lost 72 Zero (48 Pilots) in exchange for 59 Fighters.

Will post a screenshot in a moment.

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Post #: 1951

Coincidence? - 3/11/2009 2:19:13 AM

John 3rd

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This is the movement of the Fleet planned for tomorrow.

Recon spotted Brit CVs again at Singapore. I will gather the Kaigun at Addu and make a command decision as to movement at that point.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1952

RE: Coincidence? - 3/11/2009 2:19:20 AM

2ndACR

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That TF you pounded by surface ships was carrying that div.......I have seen nothing in his AAR to suggest any give away. He might have ordered the unloading the moment your CV's popped up on radar to try and save them.

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Post #: 1953

RE: Coincidence? - 3/11/2009 2:20:56 AM

John 3rd

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Man if that is what happened it is really something.

I am frustrated at the events for the moment.

Why was that BB present? Was Ramilles headed to Singapore and just happened to be there? Don't know...

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Post #: 1954

RE: Coincidence? - 3/11/2009 2:25:01 AM

FeurerKrieg

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I'm not real clear on what you are frustrated about. You sunk a BB, hammered another, and if only a BF and Div are in Triv you'll force them to retreat soon and that is one less effective division for you to fight since they take so much disruption and such on retreat. Plus, you hit some AKs with troops - that's always a sweet prize in my book.

Very few ops go 100% as planned - I think this one has already done far better than I expected it would.

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Post #: 1955

RE: Coincidence? - 3/11/2009 3:11:09 AM

John 3rd

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You are probably right. I had hoped for a simple landing but we'll bull our way through.

Thanks for the reality check. I think I'm just whining and will admit that!

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Post #: 1956

RE: Coincidence? - 3/11/2009 5:39:33 AM

SierraJuliet

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I concur with Feurer Krieg and his assessment of your position. So far you have done outstandingly well and Dan must surely be wondering what to do about this sudden onslaught. Maybe you flew off the handle a bit in your text regarding your concerns of having the plan leaked. This AAR has been great to read and the looming battle promises to be a show case of the skills of both combatants. Perhaps a little humble pie from yourself to Dan would go a long way. I've stopped reading Dan's AAR since I started posting on your AAR but I'm guessing that your concerns as expressed could hurt the gaming relationship the two of you have built up. I hope it hasn't but I can see the potential for this to aggravate the enjoyment both of you have been getting out of this game.

Things are going well... don't let some unexpected obstacles upset you.... keep up the I don't care about those carriers attitude... I'll sink them anyway.

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Post #: 1957

RE: Coincidence? - 3/11/2009 6:11:54 AM

vettim89

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John,

I read both AAR's. If Dan had been tipped, it wasn't through the AAR. That doesn't mean some one didn't PM him but I really don't think that happened. When you get a chance to read his AAR, I think you will come to the same conclusion. Let's just say two days ago Dan was pretty smug about his current position; so, if he had a spy, he did a very good job of hiding it. I think the point about that ID is right - it was the one aboard the transports you hit. Also, Dan did indicate the BB had just arrived at Aden as a reinforcement and was on the way to the front. You got a bonus. I normally would not post this type of message but I really don't want you to feel Dan was fed illicit info because I do not feel that is true.

All in all I think the forum posters did a pretty good job. If Dan got a sniff of anything it may have been that the readers of his AAR have been largely silent of late. I think we were as a group so afraid we would give something away that we said nothing.

Tim

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Post #: 1958

Life and Its Impact - 3/11/2009 6:28:30 AM

John 3rd

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Thanks for the note.

Dan and I have been writing back-and-forth tonigth and everything is cool. I was just being hyper-sensitive about things. The plan was SOOOO bold I could not imagine anything being in that hex when we appeared. This was a poor case of Operational Fixation. Am over that and will be good to go from this point on.

I think it is relevant to throw real life in for a moment. Those of you who have been with this AAR over the long haul know that I have no issue disclosing the low point my life has been in for nearly 2 years. I have been indebted to over a dozen of you who have personally emailed and/or PM'd me during this time and your support has helped me get through this. We are approaching the nadir of this experience.

The decision has been made for me to self-revoke my Probation and throw myself on the mercy of my Judge here in Greeley. When we chose to take the Plea Bargain (a horrible choice looking back on it) we felt that life could be fairly livable. I had to move out for a 'short time' while an evaluation was done. This short time has now lapsed into SIX+ months. My wife and I see each other 3-4 hours a week and I cannot see my 5 and 2 1/2 year-old sons. It is a crock of *hit. I've found 6 jobs over the months and have had them all rejected. We're nearly bankrupt with no help in sight. This is what leads us to the decision we (my wife, attorney, and I) have made.

There is the real probability that I will 'disappear' for a while. You may read into that whatever you wish. Could be anywhere from 6-24 months. This will happen within the next 2-3 weeks. If things go badly Paula (my wife) will jump on and leave a note letting people know what happened.

We reached this choice this afternoon and it partially led me to be where I was with the game. My emotions are strung out and I reacted badly to a stupid game! I feel terrible about and apologise to anyone who might have been offended.

John III

PS Now I will leave this depressing life story and return to the attempted invasion of India.

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Post #: 1959

RE: Life and Its Impact - 3/11/2009 6:57:19 AM

Redd

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Good God John! Sorry to hear about for you, but especially for the family. Gotta do what's right. Be strong. We'll all be here for you.

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Post #: 1960

RE: Life and Its Impact - 3/11/2009 10:08:37 AM

veji1

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We are all with you John.

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Post #: 1961

RE: Life and Its Impact - 3/11/2009 5:15:21 PM

Misconduct

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John I am very sorry to hear about your pains, Life's a rollercoaster has it go down way down before goes back up again. Eventually you will be on your two feet again and all can be well. Trust me I had enough legal troubles in last 5 years to last a life time, some of them will haunt my life for good. Remember the movie Office Space where the guys make a program that takes 2 cents from a budget and puts to a seperate bank account? Yeah I did that too just to show how sensitive the company i worked for internet infrastructure was. Sadly none of the brass agreed what I did helped the company at all, even though I alerted the Chief Ops officer in charge of security for the company what I was doing, he shot me down as a thief and I paid for it. Did I take a penny? nope - I simply found a security flaw in the program they had and executed it and notified the company who used me as an "example".

Once made $90,000 a year at 25 now down to $7.25 an hour doing tech support with a Masters in computer science.

Don't look at it as your downfall, its just another crossroads, ya seem like a guy I'd buy a beer in the bar too just for having a good conversation with.

On a bright side, I love your plan and going to execute it in my PBEM when I play the japanese if I ever get around to it. I think your a pretty darn good tactician, sadly I can't even keep Port Moresby for allies stocked on Supplies let alone master what you have done! Keep up great work.

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Post #: 1962

Nagoya Air Victory - 3/11/2009 10:45:46 PM

John 3rd

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Dan and I only got in 1 turn today due to my Father having health issues. I was gone for the most of the day but just got this in.

My pilots cans till shoot!

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1963

RE: Nagoya Air Victory - 3/12/2009 12:42:22 AM

Misconduct

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John can you say where those B29s are coming from?

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Post #: 1964

RE: Nagoya Air Victory - 3/12/2009 3:35:36 AM

Q-Ball

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Look like they are from Toyohara or Shikka, basically Sakhalin Is. Dan took that in late 1943, and that was probably the key to the game right there.

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Post #: 1965

Clear to RUN! - 3/12/2009 5:02:40 AM

John 3rd

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OK. I'll post the a screenshot and then run my 2x2 Turn and come back here to do a detailed entry.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1966

RE: Clear to RUN! - 3/12/2009 5:31:32 AM

FeurerKrieg

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HAve you any L3Y's you can fly in to Triv and drop the 1st and 2nd para's on some key deep areas in the Indian interior? Maybe your recon can find some unoccupied bases - you might be able to grab some supply sources that way too.

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Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

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Post #: 1967

RE: Clear to RUN! - 3/12/2009 5:44:04 AM

SierraJuliet

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John, now that your operation is out in the open have you had any response from Dan? That is an impressive number of armoured units the Japanese have put on the ground.

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Post #: 1968

RE: Clear to RUN! - 3/12/2009 5:48:32 AM

John 3rd

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Funny you mention that. This is the email I got from Dan a little while ago:

[font="arial" lang="0"]If you could take and hold India your plan would make sense to me. You'll take plenty in the short term, but for what purpose? You can't keep it and it will probably mean you'll end up losing and army and navy in the process. Your priority target is and always has been Sikhalin Island (or at least Iwo Jima).

I wrote him back with this:

No. I NEVER had a chance to take either of those sites back. You have about 200,000 troops on Iwo Jima and I would wager at least the same amount on Sakhalin. There is no way to attack into the teeth of Allied airpower. My troops were eghausted and out of supply when I retook Hokkaido. You think I could make an amphib invasion of Sakhalin? Look at the CRAP your Liberators are doing in India. Why bother to set them on Naval Attack when you can do Naval Search and seriously damage 30+ AP/AK at no risk to your planes?

All the units in India should have been destroyed on the ground in Indochina and Malaya. They were rebuilt as I pulled them out over the months on inactivity you gave me in those theatres. Think about China--3 TK Div and 4 Inf Div would make no difference to the 100+ units you have attacking throughout China. The problem with defending China right now is not Japanese troops. It is Jpaanese supply. I have none here. Brian has looked and cannot figure why I have little bits here and there but nothing of consequence. Should not be that way but it is.

Look at your use of the American Fleet. For the last 10-12 months the American CVs should have been out HUNTING shipping and attacking bases. My God you have probably 2,000 planes on carrier right now and TODAY (Nov 7, 1944) is the first time you have used your CV Offensively!

I've loved the extra few months to move conbvoys back-and-forth between the DEI and Homeland. Many of my ASW sinkings have occurred here. For the time being this is now denied me as it shold have been for the last 2-3 months.

Your use of the amphibious landings and massive land power has been fantastic. I envy the job you have done and how you have carried it out. Well done in that arena.

Who said anything about the Fleet staying where it is? I have other plans for the Kaigun now that I am ashore and operating in India.

This should be fun and entertaining to watch!

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Post #: 1969

RE: Clear to RUN! - 3/12/2009 5:55:43 AM

SierraJuliet

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And entertaining it will be. I expect the Kaigun now has a free hand to roam and relive the glory days

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Post #: 1970

The Operational Plan for India - 3/12/2009 6:02:42 AM

John 3rd

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Here is the initial plan for taking India. We have objectives placed in a 1--2--3 manor. I neglect to say in the screenshot that #3 is Bombay for the entire Army. We will split India and then concentrate at Bombay.

Once that is taken we shall then decide on the next course of action.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1971

US Fleet and Naval Search - 3/12/2009 6:17:48 AM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SierraJuliet

And entertaining it will be.� I expect the Kaigun now has a free hand to roam and relive the glory days�

IF I have enough fuel. That is a big 'if!' I will move the Fleet slowly as described in the Screenshot to Addu and then the Bay of Bengal to give battle to the British and American Fleet that should be coming up from Singapore.

On the 7th, Dan FINALLY moved his US CVs out independent of LBA. This is a first and I allude to it in the email detailed above. Luckily I moved two outbound convoy carrying nearly 180,000 fuel from the Home Islands towards Soerabaja. Another convoy just cleared Okinawa with 80,000 Resources and 90,000 Oil. VERY glad to get this potentially last convoy through!

The thing that is BEYOND irritating is his use of B-24 on Naval Search mode. These are the two day results:

1. On the 6th his B-24 scored 26 hits against AK-AP-Escort ships as well as CV Akagi, CVE Shimane Maru, and BB Hyuga. Not a single naval attack raid occurred against ANY shipping at Trivandrum yet I had 18 ships hit by bombs there while I had a LR CAP of 40 Zero and 20 Rufes flying over the shipping. Let us not even talk about the hit on Akagi! Do you think there was ANY CAP flying over the CVs? Yaaa...

2. The 7th saw this insanity increase with a total of 33 hits against similar targets. Once again there was no strike at Trivandrum but I had another 14 ships damaged costing me troops and supply.

If I saw B-24 lost while flying these missions then I might feel somewhat better but it isn't happening. I have no major issue of bombers hitting AK-AP when there are no planes flying CAP but this is NUTS! Add to this the hits are being scored by 4EB and...ooohhhh...does open a can of Forum worms???

IF this happened with B-25/B-26/or any OTHER plane that could actually hit manuevering ships I would happily accept the damage!

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Post #: 1972

Continuing Conversation - 3/12/2009 6:36:37 AM

John 3rd

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For some reason Dan is still up so I just had this exchange with him:

Dan Note:

[font="arial" lang="0"]You're still viewing the game from your perspective only. Sikhalin Island was terribly short on fuel and supplies for months after the Allies took the bases. My troops were in disarray. You could have cut off my supply line or (as I think you should have done) thrown everything you had to retake the island. I don't know that you could have, but it was your only reasonble chance at preventing or at least blunting Allied victory. I had to be very careful with my carriers because if I somehow managed to lose them I wouldn't have been able to supply or defend Sikhalin Island. Sikhalin gave the Allies what was needed to win the game, so I had to assume that you would attack. Had I somehow lost my carriers, I would have risked losing Sikhalin, so I didn't risk them. Now I can.

My Reply:

The war was lost (from my perspective) with Iwo Jima but Sakhalin put the nails into the coffin. We just had a discussion over several pages of my AAR where the course of the war was talked about. I listed your strategy as conservative and then was properly jumped on excluding your BRASSY Home Island Invasion!

That operation was potentially brilliant but I couldn't understand why all that firepower was durected north when it would have easily cut me from the DEI by taking Okinawa or Formosa.

We were both eghausted from the battle around Sakhalin. I sank SO MANY of your ships and you kept on coming! Lordy...it was something to see. You were quite dogged there and it worked.

Coming back to India who says my gains will be sort term??!! General Patton---I mean Cochran--has never had this much armor to play with! We'll see if I can cause you some headaches in the supply area as well as draw off troops, planes, etc...from the main Theatre of Operations. That is the true plan...

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Post #: 1973

US Fleet - 3/12/2009 6:46:22 AM

John 3rd

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Here is Southern China and Philippines with the US Fleet finally moving into the arena!

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1974

Chatting - 3/12/2009 4:47:38 PM

John 3rd

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Dan has sent his morning turn with this note as we continue BSing about the course of the game:

My use of my carriers is the best proof I can offer as to how tenuous I thought my positions were at Iwo and Sikhalin Island for the first four months or so after Sikhalin fell. If Sikhalin was tenuous, the other targets I considered (PI, Formosa) would have been much more tenuous. At least Sikhalin was remote, you could only come at me from one side, I was fairly close to the Aleutians, and winter protected me for several months. Those other targets would have been surrounded, subject to cutoff, and much easier for the Japs to reinvade.

Stepping back one invasion, the best thing that happened to me in this game was that changing circumstances persuaded me to divert from the PI to Iwo Jima. I was disappointed at the time, but after seeing what I've seen in the game I realize that the PI would have been very hard to hold and didn't create the dagger to the throat that Iwo does. I know you believe that the Allies in the PI in '43 would have isolated Japan from the DEI, but I believe equally strongly that I couldn't have held PI in '43.

Another way to look at this - I've only played two WitP games and this is my second. So I'm still learning. Since I'm up against a more experienced opponent, and since I suffered some bad losses early partly because I didn't understand certain aspects of the game and got too ambitious, I adopted a strategy of being patient.

You're going to have fun in India - operationally I know that this is another classic John plan: bold and well-thought out. I don't think it will detract from Allied operations elsewhere, though. In fact, in some ways it has advanced the timetable for those operations and made moving (in the absence of the KB) easier. As for India, I suspect there will be dark days ahead until the Allies are able to stabalize the situation; that's going to take some time and effort.

Dan also sent me game files of India to show that the units in India have been there for a while. I refused to look at them but I will deal with them as I find them. Still boils down to the units being used here as still sitting in the Philippines or Java if I didn't try this. His discussion of 'advancing the timetable' of other operations is fine by me. We can see what those are and how quickly it will drive me to surrender. NOT that that EVIL word is in the Japanese vocabulary!

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Post #: 1975

RE: Chatting - 3/12/2009 5:32:01 PM

2ndACR

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I would only send 1 div to Mangalore, the rest would move to Bangalore and then cut up towards Bombay........your arrow shows that you plan to go across those trails to Bombay........I would not bog down a unit crossing that......speed is your ally here.

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Post #: 1976

RE: Chatting - 3/12/2009 5:56:10 PM

ny59giants

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To: Admiral Cochran
From: Imperial General Staff
Re: India

Admiral,

The priorities in conquest were laid out to be:
1) Mangalore & Bangalore (a Bde or Division may head for Madras to see if it is lightly held and can be taken cheaply)
2) Hyperabad
3) Bombay (this is Sherman's March to the Sea - burn everything that cannot be carried. However, the Fleet will not be there to pick you up.)

All others were to be supportive of these operations.
If your NPD gets any worse, you risk being relieved of your command.

(in reply to 2ndACR)

Post #: 1977

RE: Chatting - 3/12/2009 7:37:37 PM

John 3rd

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How can my NPD get any worse when noone can agree on the raw testing material??!!

LOVE the Lightsaber Duel Michael...

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Post #: 1978

RE: Chatting - 3/12/2009 7:41:37 PM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

I would only send 1 div to Mangalore, the rest would move to Bangalore and then cut up towards Bombay........your arrow shows that you plan to go across those trails to Bombay........I would not bog down a unit crossing that......speed is your ally here.

I didn't realize that those were TRAILS! DRAT!

OK. I'll grab Mangalore, move to Bangalore, and then on to Pangrim with 33rd Army.

Speed---SPEED---SPEEEEEEDDD!

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Post #: 1979

BBs versus Barges - 3/12/2009 11:09:14 PM

John 3rd

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Dan and I had major email issues today. He sent me a turn from May 1944 to start with and then couldn't get anything to me until a little while ago. So we have only gotten the November 8th turn in today.

These were the major events:

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1980

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