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RE: Glad I didn't... - 4/6/2009 5:58:13 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I pretty much find CAP in the neighborhood of 50-100 fighters anywhere I go on the map.  It is incredible the amount of aircraft the Allies have at this point in the war.  The reality is this is totally correct.  It simply defies the imagination!

I agree with Tocaff's comments about planes and repairs.  I know know this is something far better modeled in AE and look forward to it.

Got to run my morning turn.


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Post #: 2191
RE: Glad I didn't... - 4/6/2009 7:10:48 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		12-23-44

For December 1944, I experienced an incredibly quiet turn.  Most Allied airpower stood down for the day and I enjoyed not seeing 1,000-1,500 bombers hitting various locations.  Had a good ASW Attack west of the Marianas and that was it for action.

KB moved to a position NW of Midway and will start its approach on Christmas Day...

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Post #: 2192
RE: Glad I didn't... - 4/7/2009 5:15:34 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Due to me having to run some unexpected errands Dan and I only got 2 turns in today.  Both turns were very quiet in the air and on the ground.

Biggest development is that Dan has disbanded his shipping into Midway's HUGE PORT.  There are over 200 ships in Midway Roads sitting there.  Without being able to flush the ships away from the island, I am unwilling to attack into the teeth of 125 Fighters on CAP.  With this decision the Fleet turns SW and heads for Marcus. 

I will instead strike at Eniwetok which has less then 50 planes on CAP and at least 25-40 ships disbanded in its harbor.  Once I land a punch there I will move on and find another possible target...

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Post #: 2193
India - 4/8/2009 12:28:57 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I think Dan might not like this posting.

Really screwed up on the December 23rd turn.  I took my normal notes, gave orders saved the file, hit turn advance into our emailing file slot, and sent it.  The moment I sent it I realized I hadn't given orders to India.  Immediately sent another email on the heels of the one just sent saying to watch the 001 but let me resend because I forgot India.  Pulled the file up and issued orders.  This took maybe 2-3 minutes, saved it and sent it with the Header of "Use THIS Turn."

Evidentally he didn't bother watching the 001 and whined about having to 'redo' his orders.  I rolled over--though I KNEW better--and let it pass. 

Well...DAMMIT...it will cost me all my units at Bombay and Poona.  I suspected a Zone of Control issue due to a unit approaching Poona.  I had noted to order my troops out of Bombay and head for Ahmadabad and the Poona troops to move into Bombay for the same move afterwards.  By one CRAPPY day that unit moved into the hex and now all my troops are frozen in place.

CRAP!

Considering what he just said in the First Team AAR I will hardly mention it.  Gawd... 

Anyone had something like this happen?




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Post #: 2194
Dec 26, 1944 - 4/8/2009 12:34:52 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		December 26, 1942
Combat Report

My little CVE Force strikes a convoy of 5 AK traveling between Noumea and Canton.  The 100 planes of the ships sink all five AK and I order the TF to move to Lunga for fueling.  There is enough fuel and supply at Lunga and Tarawa to stay down in this area for a while.  These ships are not strong enough to fight any CVs but should serve to be highly annoying!  


The KB refuels this day at Marcus and then moves on Eniwetok.  I will throw everything at that Port and see what we can bag.  Additionally I have moved 150 bombers and 75 Fighters into Truk to add some fireworks to the attack.  Might be fairly fun to watch.  There have consistently been about 40-50 fighters over the base and mine should blow through that.  The CAP for the Fleet will be set at 40% so I maximize the Escort strength.

Once this raid is done I will prabably pull back to Palau and evaluate the situation...



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Post #: 2195
RE: Dec 26, 1944 - 4/8/2009 12:28:27 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		No matter how hard we try not to miss anything after hitting that send button for the email that one more thing seems to come to mind.  It was only a matter of time, not much at that probably, till that force in India found itself pinned and brought to battle.

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Post #: 2196
RE: India - 4/8/2009 1:10:46 PM   
FOW

 

Posts: 499
Joined: 11/6/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Yes it's happened to me - forgot to order some important units to move - against YOU in INDIA
Caused me some consternation at the time but just managed to extricate my units in the end, not that it will do much good in the long term....

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Post #: 2197
RE: India - 4/8/2009 4:29:59 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FOW

Yes it's happened to me - forgot to order some important units to move - against YOU in INDIA
Caused me some consternation at the time but just managed to extricate my units in the end, not that it will do much good in the long term....



That was yours truly who made a hash of some of the land movement and allowed you to escape! Nice job getting them out.

That Bde at Poona had to be a mistake though, not sure what they were trying to accomplish, other than becoming POWs.

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Post #: 2198
RE: India - 4/8/2009 5:51:53 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Just did the turn for Dec 27th and very quiet.

KB moved away from Marcus this turn.  Will position it for a run-in tomorrow and shall attack the day after.

To raise Dan's paranoia, I did a 1 day Glen Recon of Pearl Harbor.  He knows that is exactly the sort of OP I would love to try so perhaps it distracts him for a couple of days until the Eniwetok Strike.

Had a brainstorm regarding Dan using the route of Hong Kong to Iwo Jima to haul his empty TK--AK--AP and decided to move my refilled TK out of the Home Islands by the northern route.  All TK moved without interference from Hiroshima and Osaka to Tokyo and are now moving due east.  Will proceed that way fro 3 days and then head due south for Marcus. 

If I can move 150,000 Fuel out safely then this will give me 3 more potential operations worth of fuel for the Fleet.


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Post #: 2199
RE: India - 4/8/2009 11:54:48 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I am enjoying Dan's AAR too but your fine maps and graphics really do make a difference.

Congrats on getting the tankers home. Dan really should not let that happen. It is the little victories that make this game. Once I had a heavily damaged sub and fretted to death while nursing it back to port. It was like the rest of the war was not happening until I could get that sub home.....

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Post #: 2200
RE: India - 4/9/2009 12:24:01 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I remember once when I rushed EVERYTHING to Tarawa to save a CVL.  The damned ships couldn't decide if it was going to sink or float.  I posted daily flooding numbers and in the end it survived.  Thoroughly understand how you feel.

Got a turn to do so I'll post some screenshots after that.




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Post #: 2201
Donnybrook? - 4/9/2009 9:50:01 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Well we might be done.  The last turn was moving along nicely when suddenly ALL my Grace's decided to attack Eniwetok at RANGE TEN and all 284 of them were shot down.  As this AAR will testify, I never set the ranges of those planes to anything but six so the DB and Zeros fly along.  Don't know why the game choose to do this but I sent the turn file to Dan so he could see what happened and backed up a day to try it again.  These were the response that I got from him today:

I looked at the replay again to see if I could tell where your bombers came from - they flew a bearing that falls between Marcus and Saipan,
so I assume they were carrier-launched. Thus, my belief that you had overloaded Marcus is wrong and I apologize
for saying you had violated that HR.

If you had those bombers set to range of six and they flew anway how do we fix that?  I don't want to go back a turn because I spent a good
hour on that and there was alot of action that might not be correctly duplicated (the raid on Nagoya, the strike on shipping at Balikpan, and
alot of fairly small air sea battles.  What's to stop them from doing it again?  Do we now have to play the entire game with the notions that
do overs happen whenever something inexplicable or contrary to what we want occurs?
 
Guess it sort of speaks pretty clearly.




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Post #: 2202
RE: Glad I didn't... - 4/9/2009 10:45:24 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		I hope you guys continue, but understand if you don't. Honestly I don't know where I stand on granting replays, I don't like them, but on the other hand hate to see a game end because of it.

I've made plenty of errors and not asked for re-dos, including one I can think of that cost a BB, and a few that resulted in needless aircraft wastage. Nothing on that scale though, losing 280 Graces in one day is BAD. You must have had the range set too high somehow, it's unfortunately very easy to screw that up.

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Post #: 2203
RE: Glad I didn't... - 4/9/2009 11:15:25 PM   
vettim89


Posts: 3615
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline 		I find myself VERY conflicted on this one. I, on principle, would be against replaying turns unless it was directly related to a confirmed game bug. That said, I have to believe that if I was in your position, I would be asking for it also. Would be very sad to see this game end on such a sour note. This is somewhat similar to back in 1942 when Dan lost his CV's trapped against the map edge. IIRC, you offered Dan a replay and he declined. I guess you might consider that in your final decision

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Post #: 2204
RE: Donnybrook? - 4/9/2009 11:49:24 PM   
Kereguelen


Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Well we might be done.  The last turn was moving along nicely when suddenly ALL my Grace's decided to attack Eniwetok at RANGE TEN and all 284 of them were shot down.  As this AAR will testify, I never set the ranges of those planes to anything but six so the DB and Zeros fly along.  Don't know why the game choose to do this but I sent the turn file to Dan so he could see what happened and backed up a day to try it again. 



Planes do not reset their range orders on their own in WITP (with the exception of CAP leakers, but this is a completely different issue and not related to range settings). Well, at least this would be a hitherto unknown bug. Only explanation for this is that you've accidentially set their ranges to 10. But you're certainly not the first player who did this. It's not always the game engine that screws things up.

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Post #: 2205
RE: Donnybrook? - 4/10/2009 12:00:18 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		The more I think about it the more confused I am as to what happened.  As noted in previous entries I had everyone set for Range 6 to hit Midway.  I confirmed that by looking at an old turn file.  The Fleet moved back to Marcus, refueled, and reprovisioned then moved SW in preparation for the strike at Eniwetok.  The only thing I changed in settings was to Port Attack--Eniwetok.  Didn't touch anything else...

These planes and pilots have been trained and hoarded since Dec 7, 1941.  Many of them had Experience in the high-80s.  My Zeros suck but my Judy and Grace pilots are formidable.

I won't move forward unless something can be done.  It is obviously something that no one would have done purposefully and is totally out of my Command Character for Carrier Operations.


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Post #: 2206
RE: Donnybrook? - 4/10/2009 12:06:10 AM   
FeurerKrieg


Posts: 3397
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		When you set a port (or airfield) attack that automatically sets the range at whatever required to reach that target.

If you don't want them to attack, you would have to go through and reduce each to range 6.

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Post #: 2207
RE: Donnybrook? - 4/10/2009 12:11:36 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		FK is correct. Whenever you select a specific target, the AI automatically set the range to reach that target. Once your CVs get close enough, it will go through its checks and launch. Its more micro-management for you, but necessary if you want to avoid this from happening.

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Post #: 2208
RE: Donnybrook? - 4/10/2009 12:28:39 AM   
Kereguelen


Posts: 1829
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

When you set a port (or airfield) attack that automatically sets the range at whatever required to reach that target.

If you don't want them to attack, you would have to go through and reduce each to range 6.


Correct:

p. 117 of the ebook manual:

The Maximum Range sets the maximum range in hexes that the squadron will travel in order to reach the target. The air unit will not exceed this distance when picking a target using Commander's Discretion whether the target is for a strike mission, escort, or Long-range CAP. However, if the air unit is assigned a specific target (base or TF), then the air unit will ignore this max range setting.


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Post #: 2209
RE: Donnybrook? - 4/10/2009 7:44:31 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Didn't know that.  I will wager that is exactly what happened.  I changed the Port Attack target and the range AUTOMATICALLY changed.  Always learning things about this game.  Has anyone told Dan this on his AAR?



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Post #: 2210
RE: Donnybrook? - 4/10/2009 11:13:49 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		More lessons, eh Grasshopper. 

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 4/10/2009 11:19:17 PM >

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Post #: 2211
RE: Donnybrook? - 4/11/2009 12:04:34 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Didn't know that.  I will wager that is exactly what happened.  I changed the Port Attack target and the range AUTOMATICALLY changed.  Always learning things about this game.  Has anyone told Dan this on his AAR?



No, it hasnt appeared.

I would suggest that you explain your stuff up to Dan personally

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Post #: 2212
RE: Donnybrook? - 4/11/2009 6:09:19 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Didn't know that.  I will wager that is exactly what happened.  I changed the Port Attack target and the range AUTOMATICALLY changed.  Always learning things about this game.  Has anyone told Dan this on his AAR?



No, it hasnt appeared.

I would suggest that you explain your stuff up to Dan personally


Very nice tone. Of course I wrote him as soon as this was figured out. Had a decent chat about it. We're cool. What I meant was this discussed in his AAR? Doesn't really matter I think we're letting stuff settle will then make a final decision within a few days.


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Post #: 2213
RE: Donnybrook? - 4/12/2009 5:24:38 AM   
thegreatwent


Posts: 3011
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline
quote:

When you set a port (or airfield) attack that automatically sets the range at whatever required to reach that target.

If you don't want them to attack, you would have to go through and reduce each to range 6.


Well I just learned something. Can't express how much this AAR has taught me so far, thanks.

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Post #: 2214
RE: Donnybrook? - 4/12/2009 7:05:46 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I too have learned so much as well.  We've had a great ride for the last 18 months playing this through.



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Post #: 2215
Thanks Gang! - 4/12/2009 4:21:16 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		This was the morning exchange of emails between Dan and I:

Dan (we have been talking about several good Civil War and other Military History Books):

I didn't think the movie version of "We were Soldiers" was particularly good, but the book is the single-best work of military history that I've ever read.

I take it that our game is over? That really does suit me fine, but I just want to make sure. I'd like to know with certainty one way or the other so that I can move on. I would prefer that we not drag on playing an occasional turn. I see that you've begun a new game, so you should have your hands full.


Me:

Having not read the book, the movie stunned me.  I had NEVER heard of that fight or Hal Moore.  Damn but it was something to watch.  I will read the book eventually.  Cannot help but think it will be superlative to one-up the film!  That is usually how I like to do it.  If a movie comes out based off a book I have NOT read then I always watch it and THEN read the book.  Sort of erases disappointment in going the other direction.

I think we should just call it.  Your comment about Sir Robin and what would have happened if the Allies OR Japanese had not given decisive battle really scored a couple of points with me.  I hadn't thought of it that way whatsoever but it is totally true.  Considering my well and often stated contempt of Sir Robin it really hit me hard that THAT was exactly what I was playing with the Fleet at this point.  Sort of blew me out of the water.

Started a new game because I wanted to go to the Dark Side and see what an aggressive Allied Defense would be like.  Ought to be entertaining until my Hearing and life is finally settled.

Mr Dan Roper:  I cannot thank you enough for all you have done in helping as a sounding board with the case and ideas/thoughts regarding it.  Your Legal Perspective was a great aid and help.  This stupid campaign was started when I was living in a basement terrified of what life might bring 18-20 months ago.  Thank you for the dozens of hours of distractions, high moments, depressing moments, and sometimes suicidal moments!  :> 

I'll keep you up on everything and if you ever want to go again....

Cheers!
John

I would now echo those thoughts to all of you who have faithfully written, read and contributed to this experience.  You have also been there during a dark time of my life and have been great to suggest, contemplate, cheer, and critique this campaign for 20 months.  Thank you for the time, effort, and thought.  There have been times when I have been strident and--perhaps--rude to several of you and I apologize.  It has not been the best time in my life and this campaign has served as an outlet for me to focus and vent about things.

If interested please join or keep reading The First Team AAR for a far different Japanese Campaign with my brilliant and most able conspirator in crime Brad OR check out The Fleet the Gods Forgot where I go to the Dark Side and play the Allies...

For one last time on this Thread "Forlorn Hopes" I provide a heartfelt:  Banzai!  BanZAI!!  BANZAI!!! 










[font="arial" lang="0"]



< Message edited by John 3rd -- 4/12/2009 4:24:54 PM >

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Post #: 2216
RE: Thanks Gang! - 4/12/2009 4:33:13 PM   
vettim89


Posts: 3615
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline 		Thanks again John for a most entertainig AAR and game. I know I speak for all of us that wish you the best in your current struggle on the personal side. God bless and Happy Easter!

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Post #: 2217
RE: Thanks Gang! - 4/12/2009 4:53:14 PM   
pat.casey

 

Posts: 393
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks John, this AAR was a pleasure to read.

Best of luck with your legal issues.

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Post #: 2218
RE: Thanks Gang! - 4/12/2009 7:51:30 PM   
thegreatwent


Posts: 3011
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		Thanks for the AAR John, and good luck from a fellow Coloradan.

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Post #: 2219
RE: Thanks Gang! - 4/13/2009 6:33:59 AM   
MrPlow9

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline

As I said in Dan's AAR aswell, Great Game!


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Post #: 2220
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