UMPs Uncontrolled Major Powers

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Empires in Arms the Napoleonic Wars of 1805 - 1815 >> UMPs Uncontrolled Major Powers

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UMPs Uncontrolled Major Powers - 12/21/2007 9:55:55 PM

JavaJoe

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A way to circumvent programming an AI for EiANW would be to code the UMP rules.

This way people control the powers not in play...not the computer.

AI will never come up to par. A lot of time will be spent programming it. That time could be used to program these rules.

They are similar to Minor power control.

Joe

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Post #: 1

RE: UMPs Uncontrolled Major Powers - 12/22/2007 12:42:43 AM

pzgndr

Posts: 3170
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From: Maryland
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quote:

AI will never come up to par. A lot of time will be spent programming it. That time could be used to program these rules.

Eric Rutins and Marshall Ellis have already acknowledged some weaknesses with the AI and have clearly indicated AI improvements and enhancements WILL be part of the planned updates for the game. Merry Christmas!

(in reply to JavaJoe)

Post #: 2

RE: UMPs Uncontrolled Major Powers - 12/22/2007 4:33:00 AM

JavaJoe

Posts: 546
Joined: 9/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

quote:

AI will never come up to par. A lot of time will be spent programming it. That time could be used to program these rules.

Eric Rutins and Marshall Ellis have already acknowledged some weaknesses with the AI and have clearly indicated AI improvements and enhancements WILL be part of the planned updates for the game. Merry Christmas!

Well aware of that.

Still it isn't going to be what it is meant to be. No AI will, the best programming minds in the world won't make it as good as a human. There are rules for Uncontrolled Major Powers. I think that's the best solution. The conditions are already part of the system. They are similar to minors it's just a matter of who controls them and how long that lasts.

Merry Christmas

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Post #: 3

RE: UMPs Uncontrolled Major Powers - 12/22/2007 3:12:10 PM

pzgndr

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

I think that's the best solution.

I won't disagree, but I will point out that's not the ONLY solution. A game option for UMP rule or AI-controlled major powers would be the way to go. I would encourage such parallel developments, since I'm not interested in denying you YOUR fun.

quote:

the best programming minds in the world won't make it as good as a human.

On the other hand, there are new players struggling to learn the game (like myself) who are not quite as good as the AI.

The thing that concerns me, and frankly ticks me off, is when folks with an obvious anti-AI bias express their preference that the way they play (eg, human players only) is the only way to play, is the only way others should play, and developers should not even waste their time with AI. Not only is such an attitude arrogant, it is also completely irrelevant since thankfully Matrix Games and the developers recognize the reality of the computer game martket and strive to satisfy all players.

So please play the game how you want to play it and request features as desired. But please also respect how other players choose to play the games they purchase and stop trying to block development of certain other features like AI enhancements and improvements.

quote:

Still it isn't going to be what it is meant to be.

And what if it is??

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Post #: 4

RE: UMPs Uncontrolled Major Powers - 12/22/2007 3:24:08 PM

Trin

Posts: 25
Joined: 12/17/2007
Status: offline

I can see the AI is far from perfect as yet, but its still fun for learning the game. I've been playing just me against the AI to learn each country. Its far more fun to play and learn the unique strengths and weaknesses of each power in a non-pressured hands-on environment rather than just trying to read a manual

(in reply to pzgndr)

Post #: 5

RE: UMPs Uncontrolled Major Powers - 12/22/2007 10:10:24 PM

JavaJoe

Posts: 546
Joined: 9/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

quote:

I think that's the best solution.

I won't disagree, but I will point out that's not the ONLY
solution. A game option for UMP rule or AI-controlled major powers would be the way to go. I would encourage such parallel developments, since I'm not interested in denying you YOUR fun.

quote:

the best programming minds in the world won't make it as good as a human.

On the other hand, there are new players struggling to learn the game (like myself) who are not quite as good as the AI.

The thing that concerns me, and frankly ticks me off, is when folks with an obvious anti-AI bias express their preference that the way they play (eg, human players only) is the only way to play, is the only way others should play, and developers should not even waste their time with AI. Not only is such an attitude arrogant, it is also completely irrelevant since thankfully Matrix Games and the developers recognize the reality of the computer game martket and strive to satisfy all players.

So please play the game how you want to play it and request features as desired. But please also respect how other players choose to play the games they purchase and stop trying to block development of certain other features like AI enhancements and improvements.

quote:

Still it isn't going to be what it is meant to be.

And what if it is??

I'm not opposed to having AI as much as I seem to imply. I'm looking to get a rule into EiANW that was a part of EiA. It is also a solution to a problem. Not the only one but one that would help.

Optional? Sounds good to me. AI or UMPs.

Merry Christmas

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Post #: 6

RE: UMPs Uncontrolled Major Powers - 12/22/2007 10:12:43 PM

JavaJoe

Posts: 546
Joined: 9/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trin

I can see the AI is far from perfect as yet, but its still fun for learning the game. I've been playing just me against the AI to learn each country. Its far more fun to play and learn the unique strengths and weaknesses of each power in a non-pressured hands-on environment rather than just trying to read a manual

Trin,

For solo play of course. UMPs don't work solo. I'm thinking about PBEM. Rather than having the computer control Nations without players the UMP rules would dictate.

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Post #: 7

RE: UMPs Uncontrolled Major Powers - 12/22/2007 10:36:41 PM

pzgndr

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

I'm not opposed to having AI as much as I seem to imply.

Bravo, and I also fully recognize the limitations of AI more than I seem to imply. Eventually I hope to get into some PBEM.

FWIW, playing as Austria through 1807 today I held off all my aggressors and captured 5! generals, 3 French and 1 each Prussian and Russian. The Vienna Hilton POW camp was filling up! LOL. I am hopeful and optimistic that some adjustments of the AI will at least minimize truly stupid AI behavior and perhaps introduce a few genuine surprises. I did have to fight to take back Vienna after an econ phase where I got no cash, so the AI isn't totally out to lunch and almost forced me to sue for peace. What a fun game!

(in reply to JavaJoe)

Post #: 8

RE: UMPs Uncontrolled Major Powers - 12/23/2007 12:47:36 AM

JavaJoe

Posts: 546
Joined: 9/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

quote:

I'm not opposed to having AI as much as I seem to imply.

Bravo, and I also fully recognize the limitations of AI more than I seem to imply. Eventually I hope to get into some PBEM.

FWIW, playing as Austria through 1807 today I held off all my aggressors and captured 5! generals, 3 French and 1 each Prussian and Russian. The Vienna Hilton POW camp was filling up! LOL. I am hopeful and optimistic that some adjustments of the AI will at least minimize truly stupid AI behavior and perhaps introduce a few genuine surprises. I did have to fight to take back Vienna after an econ phase where I got no cash, so the AI isn't totally out to lunch and almost forced me to sue for peace. What a fun game!

To bring this back on point, when playing with a limited number of players, let's say 3. 4 Nations will be controlled by AI. If UMPs were used then the nations that had no players would sit idle until they were dow'ed. They would have their eco phases adjusted for the amount of time spent idle and another player nation would gain control and run them, gaining and losing PP's as they went along. Hopefully this can be implemented in a coming patch.

< Message edited by JavaJoe -- 12/23/2007 12:48:25 AM >

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Post #: 9

RE: UMPs Uncontrolled Major Powers - 12/25/2007 9:50:24 PM

Mynok