Unit Size Symbols in TOAW

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Unit Size Symbols in TOAW

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Unit Size Symbols in TOAW - 12/23/2007 7:33:44 PM

DeadInThrench

Posts: 318
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: NE Pennsylvania, USA
Status: offline

Was looking at a Barbarosa scenario recently (actually was looking at a bunch of em), and noticed that there is no Army Group unit size indicator. In other words, the highest the game goes up to is Army (XXXX) and Army Group HQs have to use that simply because there is no XXXXX.

So, when do we get this fixed? <g> I was just looking at the scenarios and had to search around to find the AG HQ. Had to move the cursor around until I saw the AGN, AGS, etc, in the unit display.

Even better.... why not do something a bit different here, with even the XXXX (army) being difficult to distinguish from an XXX (corps).

In other words... why not use a * to indicate an army HQ, ** to indicate an army group HQ, and *** for a theatre of operations HQ.

In normal military symbols for this, there is a DOT (half squad?), DOT DOT (squad), DOT DOT DOT (platoon), BAR (company), BAR BAR (batallion), BAR BAR BAR (regiment), X (brigade), XX (division), and XXX (corps).

So, they just go up to three in each case of DOT, BAR and X usage... so it would make sense to go with STARS starting at the army level.

Yeah, if the standard military usage here is a bit lacking once you get above corps level, well, that is opportunity to do something a bit better.

DiT

< Message edited by DeadInThrench -- 12/23/2007 7:36:12 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Unit Size Symbols in TOAW - 12/24/2007 9:39:16 AM

Veers

Posts: 1324
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline

I agree that it would be nice to have an Army Group Level indicator, however, I'd like it to be XXXXX, which is my own personal preferance, looks wise.

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(in reply to DeadInThrench)

Post #: 2

RE: Unit Size Symbols in TOAW - 12/28/2007 3:53:31 AM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeadInThrench

Was looking at a Barbarosa scenario recently (actually was looking at a bunch of em), and noticed that there is no Army Group unit size indicator. In other words, the highest the game goes up to is Army (XXXX) and Army Group HQs have to use that simply because there is no XXXXX.

So, when do we get this fixed? <g> I was just looking at the scenarios and had to search around to find the AG HQ. Had to move the cursor around until I saw the AGN, AGS, etc, in the unit display.

Even better.... why not do something a bit different here, with even the XXXX (army) being difficult to distinguish from an XXX (corps).

In other words... why not use a * to indicate an army HQ, ** to indicate an army group HQ, and *** for a theatre of operations HQ.

In normal military symbols for this, there is a DOT (half squad?), DOT DOT (squad), DOT DOT DOT (platoon), BAR (company), BAR BAR (batallion), BAR BAR BAR (regiment), X (brigade), XX (division), and XXX (corps).

So, they just go up to three in each case of DOT, BAR and X usage... so it would make sense to go with STARS starting at the army level.

Yeah, if the standard military usage here is a bit lacking once you get above corps level, well, that is opportunity to do something a bit better.

DiT

It's on the wishlist, for what that's worth. But you can make your own if you wish: just graphically edit the "Numbers.bmp" file. Make each size symbol one level higher. Then, of course, you would have to edit the scenario file as well - changing all the unit levels as appropriate.

In fact, the existance of such an edited "Numbers.bmp" file would improve the chances of it being officially supported in the code. (So someday you might be able to switch back and forth between the two versions in the editor.)

(in reply to DeadInThrench)

Post #: 3

RE: Unit Size Symbols in TOAW - 12/28/2007 4:33:54 AM

DeadInThrench

Posts: 318
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: NE Pennsylvania, USA
Status: offline

Hmmm..... then you would lose the single dot (half squad?). Also, what is needed based on my original post, is BOTH army group HQ and theatre of operations HQ and your suggestion would just give the army group HQ and replace the XXXX for the army with the single star, and there still would be no theatre of operations HQ symbol.

Moreover, I was thinking about this since my original post and, I believe the Germans in WW2 had an overall HQ in Berlin. This was a HQ that was ABOVE the theatre of operations HQs. And, with my suggestion you already get to three stars with the theatre of operations HQ so my idea here is to use an O for the overall HQ.

Yeah, sceanario designers could use the O for cases where you don't have as extensive an organization but nonetheless the HQ represents the civilan leader of the country or force (e.g. Tito, Mao, etc).

Whatever.... just putting some ideas on the table.

DiT

P.S. No, I am not gonna go in an edit all the units of a scenario <g>. I kinda am playing various scenarios at a given time but, none of em right now is a Barbarosa scenario, my comments were just based on bringing up various of em and looking at em.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)

Post #: 4

RE: Unit Size Symbols in TOAW - 12/28/2007 5:38:50 PM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeadInThrench

Hmmm..... then you would lose the single dot (half squad?).

Yep. If you're going to add something, then something else has got to go.

quote:

also, what is needed based on my original post, is BOTH army group HQ and theatre of operations HQ and your suggestion would just give the army group HQ and replace the XXXX for the army with the single star, and there still would be no theatre of operations HQ symbol.

Moreover, I was thinking about this since my original post and, I believe the Germans in WW2 had an overall HQ in Berlin. This was a HQ that was ABOVE the theatre of operations HQs. And, with my suggestion you already get to three stars with the theatre of operations HQ so my idea here is to use an O for the overall HQ.

Then make each current symbol three levels higher, etc. (and you would loose the three lowest symbols). Personally, I'd stop at two, and stick with the XXXXXX & XXXXX - but there's no accounting for taste.

quote:

P.S. No, I am not gonna go in an edit all the units of a scenario <g>. I kinda am playing various scenarios at a given time but, none of em right now is a Barbarosa scenario, my comments were just based on bringing up various of em and looking at em.

For now, there's no way around editing all the unit sizes in any scenario that uses the revised Numbers.bmp file. Now if we got some code support, the alternate file could have a different name and only be accessed if the designer so specified - then we wouldn't lose any lower symbols and only the units using the alternate symbols would have to be changed.

(in reply to DeadInThrench)

Post #: 5