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AI Declares War While in Conquered minor of the Defender

 
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AI Declares War While in Conquered minor of the Defender - 1/1/2008 4:25:33 AM   
Filmstudy

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 12/24/2007
Status: offline 		Not sure if this is a rules violation or not.

France, with a corp in one of Prussia's conquered minors, declared war on Prussia. Is this in violation of 4.2.2? I thought I recalled that was a restriction of declaration in the board game, but 6.2.2 refers only to "major power's territory".

On another note, I used to playtest at Avalon Hill in the late 1980's and I recall hearing of a chair-throwing incident that occured when EIA was played there over the fact that a British Cavalry corp with Wellington (automatic withdrawl from any force/chit) could prevent France from ever declaring war under the old rule that war could not be declared if a major had any corp in their own homeland. AH changed that to require an infantry corp. I'm happy to see there is no such restriction in EIANW.
Post #: 1
RE: AI Declares War While in Conquered minor of the Def... - 1/1/2008 5:11:17 AM   
Murat


Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline 		A British corps would only prevent Britain from declaring war on whatever nation than were in, not from any nation declaring war on Britain (although other things may).

(in reply to Filmstudy)
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RE: AI Declares War While in Conquered minor of the Def... - 1/1/2008 9:27:28 AM   
Jimmer

 

Posts: 1968
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline 		"Territory" means everything owned by the major. So, if France has a corps in a Prussian minor (of either conquered or free state status), France cannot declare war on Prussia. If the game allows it, it's a bug.

(in reply to Murat)
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RE: AI Declares War While in Conquered minor of the Def... - 1/1/2008 11:21:31 AM   
Filmstudy

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 12/24/2007
Status: offline 		Murat, the original AH rules had the restriction I mentioned.

Under 4.2.2.2 : "A major power already at war with another major power may not declare war on other major powers if enemy forces are already inside of its home nation"

This could include a British cavalry corps with Wellington leading which could withdraw automatically due to the "all cavalry bonus", regardless of the chit selected by the French (in this case).

Naturally, competitive wargamers exploited this rules loophole which escalated into the chair throwing incident.

It was addressed for the first time officially in the 1987 article of the General (page 9) where the corps preventing the additional declarations had to be an unbesieged infantry corps.


< Message edited by Filmstudy -- 1/1/2008 11:22:13 AM >

(in reply to Filmstudy)
Post #: 4
RE: AI Declares War While in Conquered minor of the Def... - 1/1/2008 7:07:18 PM   
Murat


Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Filmstudy
war could not be declared if a major had any corp in their own homeland.


It was your English that confused me because this statement above does not fall under the rule. It states that if Britain had a corp in BRITISH territory war could not be declared. While you are correct about that 4.2.2.2, withdrawal is still a contested die roll unless the attacker picks Probe. Yes Wellington and an all cav corp (actually any corp, strat ratings max at 5) has a +1 to his die but so does Nappy and it is not guaranteed withdrawal. Actually it is only a 41 2/3 % chance of escape each time.

(in reply to Filmstudy)
Post #: 5
RE: AI Declares War While in Conquered minor of the Def... - 1/1/2008 8:42:26 PM   
Monadman


Posts: 2085
Joined: 12/6/2005
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Filmstudy

Not sure if this is a rules violation or not.

France, with a corp in one of Prussia's conquered minors, declared war on Prussia. Is this in violation of 4.2.2? I thought I recalled that was a restriction of declaration in the board game, but 6.2.2 refers only to "major power's territory".




It would be a violation but I cannot duplicate what you are reporting. Can you give more details or post the saved game files (.sav and .dat extensions)? Thanks

Richard


_____________________________


(in reply to Filmstudy)
Post #: 6
RE: AI Declares War While in Conquered minor of the Def... - 1/2/2008 9:21:19 PM   
Jimmer

 

Posts: 1968
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline 		I think you guys are possibly misinterpretting his post. He specifies the example: "France, with a corp in one of Prussia's conquered minors, declared war on Prussia."

You guys are looking at the reverse: When a nation has ANOTHER nations corps counters (unbesieged) within the original home nation borders of the nation who wants to declare war, it is disallowed. (This was clarified by the General article, as mentioned above.)

For example, if GB has a Prussian corps counter in Portsmouth (original GB home nation province), then GB cannot declare war on any major (or minor? I can't recall). This is a different situation than the OP mentions (I think).

(in reply to Monadman)
Post #: 7
RE: AI Declares War While in Conquered minor of the Def... - 1/2/2008 9:47:32 PM   
Grognot

 

Posts: 409
Joined: 12/7/2007
Status: offline 		There are rules covering both situations -- the one that's being violated here is to prevent one blatantly treacherous use of granted access.


(in reply to Jimmer)
Post #: 8
RE: AI Declares War While in Conquered minor of the Def... - 1/3/2008 12:15:57 AM   
Monadman


Posts: 2085
Joined: 12/6/2005
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmer

I think you guys are possibly misinterpretting his post. He specifies the example: "France, with a corp in one of Prussia's conquered minors, declared war on Prussia."



No, I read him correctly and as already stated; if it happened then that would be a bug (according to the first bullet of section 6.2.2.) No further action will be taken unless reported again and a file is available for it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Filmstudy
On another note, I used to playtest at Avalon Hill in the late 1980's and I recall hearing of a chair-throwing incident that occured when EIA was played there over the fact that a British Cavalry corp with Wellington (automatic withdrawl from any force/chit) could prevent France from ever declaring war under the old rule that war could not be declared if a major had any corp in their own homeland. AH changed that to require an infantry corp. I'm happy to see there
is no such restriction in EIANW.



This part refers to the second bullet of section 6.2.2 and there are two issues linked to it that needed our attention.

1. The EiANW manual still uses the word “infantry” when it should not be. It should read:
A major power already at war with another major power may not declare war on other major powers if unbesieged enemy corps are already inside its home nation.

2. The program went too far and is currently including cossacks and freikorps (a fix will be made to exclude them)

Thanks

Richard


_____________________________


(in reply to Jimmer)
Post #: 9
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