Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I hold that if I can get a 1-for-1 sinking ratio of Jap SS to Allied ship, then I have done OK.  Allied ASW is just so terrible that you don't stand much of a chance.

So my question to the olides would be: does ASW effectivenness for allies grow up during war ? Does it depend on crew experience, or some weapons and detection device come to improve the ships ?

(in reply to John 3rd)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I've had Saratoga torpedoed twice in my stock 1942 game vs the AI; both times she went back to San Francisco for some serious repairs (about 30-40 SYS both times).  I've had a few cruisers hit and several DD's and MSW's in ASW TF's hit too, but they were looking for the subs so I expected it.  The AI has lost about two dozen subs though, from my ASW patrols, planes and bombing while in port.

Meanwhile, my USN subs have been much more useful attacking cargo shipping than warships.  So far they've managed to damage a CVL, a CL and Mutsu, but none sank or even were that badly hurt. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I hold that if I can get a 1-for-1 sinking ratio of Jap SS to Allied ship, then I have done OK.  Allied ASW is just so terrible that you don't stand much of a chance.

So my question to the olides would be: does ASW effectivenness for allies grow up during war ? Does it depend on crew experience, or some weapons and detection device come to improve the ships ?

I have a kill/loss ratio at around one sub to 3.5 allied ships. No hits on anything bigger than a DD, all kills are AP,AK,TK and smaller ships.

50% of my lost subs, where destroyed in a futile attempt to hunt an allied CV force. Escorts and landbased planes took care of that little adventure. So if disregarding that...ahem....mistake, my kill/loss ratio is closer to 7 for one sub.

Still in mid 1942 so i expect the kill/loss ratio to go down from now on.

(in reply to gladiatt)

quote:

ORIGINAL: String

quote:

ORIGINAL: wwengr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sauvequipeut

There was a fair few subs put down by other subs in both WWI and WWII.

British subs bagged 19 U-Boats in WWII, with American subs adding a further 2. The Royal Navy lost at least 3 subs to U-Boats.

In WWI British subs had accounted for 18 U-Boats, including some gained by using a variant of the Q-Ship principle - instead of arming the ship, it was shadowed by a sub. U-Boats claimed 5 British subs in return.

There were also sub-on-sub friendly fire losses - most famously the sinking of HMS Oxley by HMS Triton on 10 September 1939, which gained for the Oxley the unwanted distinction of being both the first British warship sunk in WWII and the first warship to be sunk by the British in WWII.

In the Pacific in WWII the US Navy lost at least one sub to a Japanese sub - the USS Corvina in 1943. US subs are credited with 19 Japanese subs, and the RN a further 2. That represents about 1/6th of Japanese WWII sub losses.

So...it did happen and should be represented, although as an occasional occurrence, not a wild-west style mid-ocean sub-on-sub shootout.

I assume that these were surface engagements between the subs. Or at least the targeted sub was on the surface. This is one area in which I am obviously not well read.

Thanks to Mike Solli for the reference to War Fish. Any other recomendations for good reading on this topic?

AFAIK there was one sub-surface sub sinking as well in ww2 with a british submarine bagging a u-boat.