Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

..rise and fall of the 3rd Reich..Shirer..

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> ..rise and fall of the 3rd Reich..Shirer.. Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
..rise and fall of the 3rd Reich..Shirer.. - 1/24/2008 12:39:05 PM   
a white rabbit


Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline 		..has anyone else read this opus ? i'm around half way, and so far it's been a fascinating study in madness and bad manners, i'd go so far as to say a "shocking" or "horifying" study.

..How much creadance can be put on Shirer's reporting of the early events ? If they're accurate, then Hitler was madder than Idi Amin, obniously foamin' at the brain but got away with it, HOW ?

..i honestly reckon the early section to Poland as one of the most frightening books i've ever read, it makesSilence of the Lambs look like a kiddies story..

_____________________________

..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beān'tus all..?,
Post #: 1
RE: ..rise and fall of the 3rd Reich..Shirer.. - 1/24/2008 2:42:03 PM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		It's been many years since I've read Inside the Third Reich.  As far as I know, Shirer's account is as honest and accurate as he could make it, although he was obviously not privy to the most secret goings on.  Also, as far as I know, nobody has discredited his account with any authority.  I call it a tremendous piece of journalism.

It's a shame we don't have journalists in this country today who are as forthright and clearsighted as Shirer was 70 years ago.

_____________________________


(in reply to a white rabbit)
Post #: 2
RE: ..rise and fall of the 3rd Reich..Shirer.. - 1/24/2008 3:10:37 PM   
Nemo69


Posts: 685
Joined: 2/18/2004
From: Nowhere to be seen
Status: offline 		I've read it more than ten years ago and remember it as quite a good book. Don't know how much academic authority it can have though.

_____________________________

Fais ce que dois

(in reply to vahauser)
Post #: 3
RE: ..rise and fall of the 3rd Reich..Shirer.. - 1/24/2008 4:10:26 PM   
a white rabbit


Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline 		..to vahauser, i'll accept a certain journalistic quality, and he admits to using post war sources for the documents, he even is honest about times when he swallowed the package. Just because he was a journalist doesn't exclude accuracy, they too have their inside contacts. My problem is that if Hitler and crew were just one man, they'd have been arrested somewhere around just after invading Austria, and remanded in custody pending psychiatric reports..

..the treatement of the Austrian Chancellor was incredible, and that before the invasion. This guy's the head of a Sovereign State, i jsut find it so hard to believe he took it and didn't withdraw the Austrian Ambassador at very least ..

_____________________________

..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beān'tus all..?,

(in reply to Nemo69)
Post #: 4
RE: ..rise and fall of the 3rd Reich..Shirer.. - 1/24/2008 8:00:46 PM   
Procrustes

 

Posts: 633
Joined: 3/30/2003
From: Upstate
Status: offline
I loved that book, but it's been a couple of decades since I read it. He also wrote a book called "Berlin Diary" that detailed his years as a correspondent in Germany as the war was starting, and I think he wrote a quick book on the sinking of the Bismark.

I read Kersaw's two volume biography of Hitler a couple of years ago - that was pretty interesting, too - more update, at times a little stultifying, but good.

(in reply to a white rabbit)
Post #: 5
RE: ..rise and fall of the 3rd Reich..Shirer.. - 1/26/2008 10:02:21 AM   
Koniev

 

Posts: 222
Joined: 7/9/2002
From: Shawnee, Kansas
Status: offline 		Hi rabbit -

William Shirer is considered one of the more solid journalists of his time. He worked closely with Edward R. Murrow during the "Phoney War" and lived in Germany from the mid thirties until shortly before Hitler declared war on the United States.

I'm not sure when the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich was published, but it wasn't long after the end of the war so there has been a great deal of information released since that he did not have access to, but his reputation for honest reporting is impeccable.

As to HOW Hitler got away with it, you have to understand that the British and especially the French were terrified of another war like the bloody trench warfare of WW 1. Hitler, in the early stages, was bluffing, and often acted against the advice of his generals. He was also aware that the US would remain neutral unless attacked despite Roosevelt's desire to aid the British and French.

There is an old saying: "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." Hitler was the perfect example of this.

Hitler's megolomania is an interesting subject.

_____________________________

"Those who don't remember History are condemned to relive it" George Santayana

(in reply to a white rabbit)
Post #: 6
RE: ..rise and fall of the 3rd Reich..Shirer.. - 1/26/2008 2:34:46 PM   
Burkowski


Posts: 56
Joined: 9/9/2001
From: West Virginia SRA
Status: offline
Greetings.

Koniev has it right on two points: the timid response by France and Great Britain to the Rhineland escapade, etc. and Hitler's "bluffing," though I'd emphasize it as his instinctive reliance on his own intuitions about the people and politics in the 30s.
Shirer's book is still valuable but dated in the face of the avalanche of sources made available since then.
For the best flavor of the times, see Churchill's first volume of his WWII history, The Gathering Storm.. It's first person and close to the nexus of the action. Also fascinating in that it shows the machines at work on all sides.
The Austrian Chancellor, von Schuschnigg, was caught in a trap--- Hitler's revitalizing divisions on the border and the growing power of the National Socialists within Austria (including the murder of Austrian Chancellor Dollfuss in '34). No matter how fast von S. tried to apologize or appease, Hitler was able to treat him with disdain.... cat with a mouse.
I think the key was the lack of response by the West and, especially, their inability to pair with the Soviets in an early, expedient treaty vs. Germany.
It's the age-old story of hawks vs. doves. Weakness invites aggression... duh!

Burkowski

(in reply to Koniev)
Post #: 7
RE: ..rise and fall of the 3rd Reich..Shirer.. - 2/1/2008 4:01:03 PM   
a white rabbit


Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline 		..nooooooo..

..sorry but " we don't want another war" ???????????

..it wasn't a country, it wasn't people, it was one guy/one guy..

..so i run a country and the other treats me like sh*t, i bend over the chair ?...

..on your bike...

..but if you read the reports, as you would do before the the meeting, the guy you're seeing is bats, totally foamin'..

..nahh, sorry, doves don't do it..

_____________________________

..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beān'tus all..?,

(in reply to Burkowski)
Post #: 8
RE: ..rise and fall of the 3rd Reich..Shirer.. - 2/2/2008 3:10:17 AM   
Johnus

 

Posts: 615
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline 		Read it about 30 years ago (I think) and again a year ago. It is as good as I remembered it. I think the history stands up pretty well. But even if did not, it would be worth reading for the atmosphere. It reads like a memoir in many ways.

< Message edited by Johnnie -- 2/18/2008 6:01:22 AM >

(in reply to a white rabbit)
Post #: 9
RE: ..rise and fall of the 3rd Reich..Shirer.. - 2/2/2008 9:10:05 AM   
a white rabbit


Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline 		..finally got to the end. I don't know if the later war part is much use, there's better but up to Shirer leaving Germany, yahh, it's worth having in the book-case, both as a major reference work for the early period and frankly as a good read..

_____________________________

..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beān'tus all..?,

(in reply to Johnus)
Post #: 10
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> ..rise and fall of the 3rd Reich..Shirer.. Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.828