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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Allied 7/42 upgrades.

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Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 6:50:45 AM

crsutton

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I just sent my American carriers into Sidney. It is 7/14/42, Sidney has 92,000 supply, sys damage is no more than 6 on any carrier and for those that have the upgrade 7/42 option on, I have it set to yes. However, no upgrades and no expanded fighter air groups. This is stock. Have I missed something? Devestators are upgrading to avengers with no problem

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 7:11:46 AM

bradfordkay

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I think that CVs and BBs need to be at 3 sys damage or below for the upgrade to occur. In my mind Sydney is too small of a shipyard to handle upgrades for capital ships. I'd try sending them to Pearl or the west coast of the USA.

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 7:17:32 AM

crsutton

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No, I have had them upgrade at Sydney in my previous game. BBs and carriers CAs. IIRC there only need to be a port with a shipyard. Not sure about the sys damage but thought it only had to be less than ten. My biggest concern is that I need the fighter groups to expand. That is supposed to happen in July 42, correct?

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 7:25:46 AM

bradfordkay

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It isn't that they can't upgrade at the smaller shipyards, it's just that it will take that much longer for them to repair the sys damage incurred in the upgrades (or needing to be removed before the upgrade will occur) at ports with smaller shipyards.

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 7:28:58 AM

bobogoboom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

No, I have had them upgrade at Sydney in my previous game. BBs and carriers CAs. IIRC there only need to be a port with a shipyard. Not sure about the sys damage but thought it only had to be less than ten. My biggest concern is that I need the fighter groups to expand. That is supposed to happen in July 42, correct?

has to be 3 or less to upgrade.

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 7:37:08 AM

crsutton

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Thanks, and does that also apply for the squadons expanding?

quote:

ORIGINAL: bobogoboom

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

No, I have had them upgrade at Sydney in my previous game. BBs and carriers CAs. IIRC there only need to be a port with a shipyard. Not sure about the sys damage but thought it only had to be less than ten. My biggest concern is that I need the fighter groups to expand. That is supposed to happen in July 42, correct?

has to be 3 or less to upgrade.

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 8:16:39 AM

wild_Willie2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Thanks, and does that also apply for the squadons expanding?

quote:

Nope, this will happen regardlessly.

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 9:14:19 AM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I think that CVs and BBs need to be at 3 sys damage or below for the upgrade to occur. In my mind Sydney is too small of a shipyard to handle upgrades for capital ships. I'd try sending them to Pearl or the west coast of the USA.

No matter how big the shipyard is. I think even a ship yard of 1 point is able to do the upgrades in the game. Sydney is definetely able to do all Allied upgrades.

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 9:21:44 AM

rockmedic109

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I have been under the impression that Sys damage must be under 5.

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 9:26:03 AM

bradfordkay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I think that CVs and BBs need to be at 3 sys damage or below for the upgrade to occur. In my mind Sydney is too small of a shipyard to handle upgrades for capital ships. I'd try sending them to Pearl or the west coast of the USA.

No matter how big the shipyard is. I think even a ship yard of 1 point is able to do the upgrades in the game. Sydney is definetely able to do all Allied upgrades.

Read my follow up post. It's not that I don't realize that they can perform the upgrade, I just think that they're too small to do it efficiently (they won't remove the system damage fast enough for my taste, but to each his own).

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 9:32:13 AM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I think that CVs and BBs need to be at 3 sys damage or below for the upgrade to occur. In my mind Sydney is too small of a shipyard to handle upgrades for capital ships. I'd try sending them to Pearl or the west coast of the USA.

No matter how big the shipyard is. I think even a ship yard of 1 point is able to do the upgrades in the game. Sydney is definetely able to do all Allied upgrades.

Read my follow up post. It's not that I don't realize that they can perform the upgrade, I just think that they're too small to do it efficiently (they won't remove the system damage fast enough for my taste, but to each his own).

I answered before I read your follow up post. Shame on me...

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 9:49:23 AM

goodboyladdie

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Sys damage of three is the trigger and they take a long time to repair in Sydney. The air unit resize won't happen there in my experience - I have always had to take them back to PH closer to their HQ. It is actually faster to send them back to PH or the US (US repairs faster) than to do it in theatre. Do you need them in that area? Could you replace them with other CVs to support that need? More fighters on CAP is definitely worth the journey...

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 10:09:31 AM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

Sys damage of three is the trigger and they take a long time to repair in Sydney. The air unit resize won't happen there in my experience - I have always had to take them back to PH closer to their HQ. It is actually faster to send them back to PH or the US (US repairs faster) than to do it in theatre. Do you need them in that area? Could you replace them with other CVs to support that need? More fighters on CAP is definitely worth the journey...

I would bet that I repair 5 sys points faster in Sydney than it takes to send them back to Pearl and then have them sitting there for repairs. Not to mention the time it takes to bring them back to Sydney. Sydney is a level 10 port, so I had never problems to repair things there. IMO the expectations to see shipyards repair another point of sys are far too high. There�s always just a CHANCE that the shipyard repairs another point of sys if there are enough shipyard repair points available. And when I look at the West coast, I have hundreds of shipyard repair points but see the dice only hitting very RARELY. Shipyard repair points are usefull if you have a lot of cargoes, DDs,... with sys dam, but to repair BBs, CVs they�re almost useless - in the game.

So again, I seriously doubt that 5 sys points are repaired faster if you send a CV from Sydney to Pearl compared to leaving it at Sydney. Sending it twice the way will accumulate for sure 3+ sys points so it doesn�t make any sense IMO.

Same goes for Japanese shipyard repair points. If you have a major vessel somewhere, it�s a very rare occassion that 100+ shipyard points are used to repair another point of sys dam from a carrier or BB...

< Message edited by castor troy -- 1/30/2008 10:10:07 AM >

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 11:43:49 AM

goodboyladdie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

Sys damage of three is the trigger and they take a long time to repair in Sydney. The air unit resize won't happen there in my experience - I have always had to take them back to PH closer to their HQ. It is actually faster to send them back to PH or the US (US repairs faster) than to do it in theatre. Do you need them in that area? Could you replace them with other CVs to support that need? More fighters on CAP is definitely worth the journey...

I would bet that I repair 5 sys points faster in Sydney than it takes to send them back to Pearl and then have them sitting there for repairs. Not to mention the time it takes to bring them back to Sydney. Sydney is a level 10 port, so I had never problems to repair things there. IMO the expectations to see shipyards repair another point of sys are far too high. There�s always just a CHANCE that the shipyard repairs another point of sys if there are enough shipyard repair points available. And when I look at the West coast, I have hundreds of shipyard repair points but see the dice only hitting very RARELY. Shipyard repair points are usefull if you have a lot of cargoes, DDs,... with sys dam, but to repair BBs, CVs they�re almost useless - in the game.

So again, I seriously doubt that 5 sys points are repaired faster if you send a CV from Sydney to Pearl compared to leaving it at Sydney. Sending it twice the way will accumulate for sure 3+ sys points so it doesn�t make any sense IMO.

Same goes for Japanese shipyard repair points. If you have a major vessel somewhere, it�s a very rare occassion that 100+ shipyard points are used to repair another point of sys dam from a carrier or BB...

But he will have to repair the ships twice (to get it down to three and then after the upgrade) and he wants his airgroups to resize. If it is only the CVs and no escorts to repair, then yes, you are right, but as he want the planes too...

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 11:48:00 AM

castor troy

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I have no idea about the airgroup resize, I don�t even know when it happens. The manual says "late 42" and says nothing about the place where the carriers have to be. As they only draw more fighters I wonder why they have to be in the US.

When I look at my game against Hortlund I had Lexington at Sydney with 11 sys points and three weeks later she left the port with 2 sys points, so that isn�t that much time it takes to repair sys dam in Sydney, which is, as said before, a level 10 port. And there were a lot of CAs, CLs, BBs also...

coming back to the airgroup resize, anyone know the exact date?

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 2:55:45 PM

saj42

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IIRC there is no exact date.
From my own experience I've had 2 CVs disbanded at PH and they upgraded the airgroups a month apart (there's obviously some dice rolls used - what a surprise

)
I also think that you need to set 'replacements on'

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 3:04:02 PM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tallyho!

IIRC there is no exact date.
From my own experience I've had 2 CVs disbanded at PH and they upgraded the airgroups a month apart (there's obviously some dice rolls used - what a surprise)
I also think that you need to set 'replacements on'

so was it sometime around 10/42 or 12/42 or 6/42? I�ve played the Allied a couple of times already but I really never thought about the resize of airgroups.

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 3:45:57 PM

admgrraven

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I've had all the Yorktown class upgrade both the airgroups and the AAA at Sydney. System damage must be at or under 3. If you time it right and have all the US cv's there when they replace the TBD with TBF you shoud be able to get all the refits done while they are replacing the airframes. In my current game the KB has been playing around Timor and I've not wanted to send my CV's back to PH as I'm looking for a good time to strike.

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 4:20:45 PM

spence

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For the fighter squadrons to expand make sure "accept replacements" is ON.

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 5:28:08 PM

Gem35

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I've done refits/upgrades at Sydney and melbourne as well as west coast. It's all a crapshoot and luck of the random numbers to repair your ships in these yards or smaller ones. Ports with less than a size 5 cannot repair weapons and ports without a repair shipyard cannot do refits/upgrades iirc.

< Message edited by Gem35 -- 1/30/2008 5:29:07 PM >

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 5:36:59 PM

tsimmonds

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I have been told by Michaelm that the air unit upgrade requires the CVs to be at a base that also has present the command HQ for that base.

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 1/30/2008 5:46:35 PM >

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 5:37:30 PM

crsutton

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Well, I have upgraded airgroups in Sidney in a previous game so I know it can be done. I did not realize that the resizing of airgroups was random or could happen in later July. I just expected it to happen on 1/7/42. So I will wait and see.

As for Sidney, I have found that upgrading ships there has not been a problem. Subs, light cruisers and DD repair sys damage there very fast-especially once they get below 10 sys. Like castertroy says the time it takes to go to Pearl does not really merit the trip and time saved repairing for small sys damage that occurs in an upgrade. Plus, With KB lurking around, I just cannot take my carriers that far away from the S Pacific. I just invaded Lunga and can expect some sort of reaction. For that reason, I cannot consider splitting them up either.

I usually just let them upgrade and if they do not take a big sys hit, send them back to Noumea which will soon be a lev 9 port and two ARs where they recover pretty well and are closer to the enemy threat.

I am more concerned about having the 35 plane fighter groups, which is a big deal when facing KB.

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 5:51:41 PM

crsutton

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Well, I think you are right about the 3 limt to sys damage. My lowest sys damaged carrier upgraded last turn. Only one left. Still no expanded airgroups 7/21/42.

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 6:15:41 PM

USSAmerica

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well, I think you are right about the 3 limt to sys damage. My lowest sys damaged carrier upgraded last turn. Only one left. Still no expanded airgroups 7/21/42.

Check out what irrelevant posted above. What HQ is Sydney assigned to, and is that Command HQ present at Sydney? I don't know for sure that this affects air wing expansion, but it sounds good to me.

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 6:37:05 PM

crsutton

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Sydney belongs to OZ but I never fooled with changing it in my other campaign and it did not see to affect ship upgrades or fighter group expansion. It has been some while but I am pretty sure my fighter groups expanded at Sydney in 7/42 during that game.

Well, the Aussie command HQ is at Brisbane. I can't see how that would affect carriers that are really under no command HQ. And I am able to convert torpedo bombers to avengers at Sydney. I had the carriers at Noumea with the South Pacific HQ in early July and the fighter groups did not expand...Boy, I sure could use those extra fighters...

< Message edited by crsutton -- 1/30/2008 6:39:34 PM >

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 9:36:28 PM

Dino

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Again...what irrelevant said!

For CV air groups to expand you need a theater HQ...so, move your Aussie HQ to Sydney, or move your carriers to Brisbane.

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 10:46:12 PM

VSWG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: List of Must Read Threads

"Carrier Air Group Restructing Problems": Don Bowen himself explains how this works:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1162948
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1422240

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 1/30/2008 11:43:33 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

quote:

ORIGINAL: List of Must Read Threads

"Carrier Air Group Restructing Problems": Don Bowen himself explains how this works:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1162948
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1422240

That convinces me. I am off to Brisbane.

Thanks!

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RE: Allied 7/42 upgrades. - 2/3/2008 7:18:51 AM

crsutton

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Just a follow up. I sent my carriers to Brisbane from Sydney. The OZ theater HQ was located in Brisbane. Once there I realized that Brisbane is a Southwest Pacific base. I had to pay the PP to change it to OZ.

Just as the man promised, as soon as I did that all of my carrier airgroups expanded from 27 to 36 aircraft. So, you do not have to take them back to Pearl or San Francisco to expand the groups in July of 42. They only need to be in a Port with a theater HQ and the port has to be assigned to that theater.

Thanks to all for your help.

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