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RE: island op-fire

 
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RE: island op-fire - 2/10/2008 12:51:45 AM   
MrQuiet

 

Posts: 805
Joined: 4/2/2005
Status: offline 		Sounds pretty good WH.
Couple questions:
1) would all air units be able to go on a active CAP (i.e. enemy warships in area) after combat, or only island based air units? Would it use a mp if not a island based air unit?
2) Would the CAP op-fire on units trying to amphib (ex. africa to s Italy)? Would it matter if the transports started the turn in the CAP zone?
3) Would the naval units be able to supply land bombardment with a active CAP over them?

My guesses are
1) all air units can go on CAP and yes use a mp if not a Island based air unit
2) yes, CAP would op-fire amphib assaults in there CAP zone and it would not matter if transports started in the CAP zone or were brought in
3) No, naval units would not be able to supply land bombardment with active enemy CAP over them.

Kudos for Very creative thinking, I think you have me sold.

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 31
RE: island op-fire - 2/10/2008 1:10:35 AM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline 		My intent was that ONLY the three rules I mentioned would change, so the answers depend on how it works today.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrQuiet
1) would all air units be able to go on a active CAP (i.e. enemy warships in area) after combat, or only island based air units? Would it use a mp if not a island based air unit?

All air units, but if not on an island it costs another MP. Basically, it is just a consistently applied rule, no longer prohibit air that did combat from CAP over enemies.

I'll need to be careful that this doesn't accidentally allow the air to attack multiple times, but that should be OK.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrQuiet
2) Would the CAP op-fire on units trying to amphib (ex. africa to s Italy)? Would it matter if the transports started the turn in the CAP zone?

That would be the same as today. An amphibiously assaulting land unit would have to enter the sea zone (from land) and exit the sea zone, so the CAP would op-fire.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrQuiet
3) Would the naval units be able to supply land bombardment with a active CAP over them?

Same as today. I am pretty sure that in this case the naval units cannot do bombardment.


Thanks for the encouraging words :). I'm pretty happy about this, it is much better than the simpler fix I originally envisioned. So thanks for forcing more thought on the problem.

(in reply to MrQuiet)
Post #: 32
RE: island op-fire - 2/10/2008 8:28:09 AM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2166
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline 		I like it. Will you have something for the patch testers to try out anytime soon? 

_____________________________

Jesse LeBreton, AKA Lebatron
Development team- GG's WAW A World Divided

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 33
RE: island op-fire - 2/10/2008 9:54:05 AM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lebatron
I like it. Will you have something for the patch testers to try out anytime soon? 


Good!

I am maintaining the status list here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1663442

I can say that this implementation requires some inconsistencies, something I don't generally like. But in this case I think the overall impact is important enough to bite the bullet and accept some inconsistencies, which is easier than trying to get a consistent implementation to work.

The inconsistencies:
1) CAP will op-fire on units leaving their starting region if they are at sea, but not at land (if land were included then whole stacks of armies would be easily immobilized).
2) air units may post CAP at sea after combat, but not at land (allowing land would be OK for play, I think, but the combat button GUI gets screwed up for some reason and that would be harder to fix than seems worthwhile).

I do think that this change is big enough to warrant at least a little sanity check testing. As I think through the impact, I also think this makes CAP pretty powerful for putting fleets out of commission for a season. So some other eyes playing with it and looking for potential unintended consequences would also be good. For example, now a CAP from Sicily to E Med would effectively prevent any fleets in the E Med from attacking C Med. Is that too powerful? Or is that effectively what you guys wanted all along? :)

I have a fear that it may need more tweaking to make it work right. I am suspecting that an additional rule might be necessary, namely require that the CAP air unit be adjacent to its base in order to allow it to op-fire on units moving from their starting region. That way you can only shut down fleets that are ridiculously close to your airfields.

I could send it out to a few testers tomorrow, if you want something which is not quite the completed patch.

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 34
RE: island op-fire - 2/10/2008 12:03:48 PM   
SGT Rice

 

Posts: 653
Joined: 5/22/2005
Status: offline 		We could use it in the Lightning Tourney ... it's supposed to be for feedback purposes anyway. I'll be happy to test functionality solo if you post a new beta.

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 35
RE: island op-fire - 2/10/2008 4:16:32 PM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2166
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline 		Brian, the other significant reason for asking that you email the testers this update is to also check the function of the new unique targeting for CAG. There are a few other changes I'd like to test out but for the most part the new CAP op-fire rule and the new unique targeting should get some play time on them for obvious reasons.

SGT Rice, I don't think we should use the test exe out on the Lightning Tourny. Besides, I'm sure that all involved in it are not cleared to recieve test exes. You may have mistaken what I meant when I asked Brian to email this exe out to those of us on the tester list. This is not going to be listed in the members section for everyone to download. Soon maybe, but not before its checked over for bugs and problems with the new rules.


_____________________________

Jesse LeBreton, AKA Lebatron
Development team- GG's WAW A World Divided

(in reply to SGT Rice)
Post #: 36
RE: island op-fire - 2/11/2008 6:42:39 PM   
Vilhjalmr


Posts: 30
Joined: 6/15/2007
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline 		Very creative solution, well done.

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 37
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