Guided AI and RHSMAIO (Slightly revised initial turn)

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Scenario Design >> Guided AI and RHSMAIO (Slightly revised initial turn)

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Guided AI and RHSMAIO (Slightly revised initial turn) - 2/12/2008 9:48:11 PM

el cid again

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline

RHSMAIO is a modified form of RHSAIO done initially to address the problem that AI is not coded to understand a sustained Central
Pacific offensive - as it does in Malaya or Philippines or NEI - so forces sent there are substantially wasted. The scenario simply is AIO
where the Central Pacific forces are redirected to the Southeast - at New Caledonia, Fiji and Samoa. [This in turn is based on contingeny
planing done for Admiral Ukagi, Chief of Staff of Combined Fleet, whose daily diary I have]. It turns out this works far better with AI than
AIO does - and it is far more challenging than CAIO since Japan is stronger. It also is a completely different scenario in operational terms.

After releasing the scenario, I invented the idea of doing the first turn for the AI. AI only can play Japan - but a player has many things which
cannot be set in the scenario editors. Instead of using default secondary missions for aircraft, each may be specified. Task Forces can be set
to escort or follow each other. Industry can be set (or infrastructure set) to build or repair or not - case by case. So I have created a first turn
as an alternative way to start the scenario. Instead of loading the scenario, just load the save game file for Turn 1 - and you get a lot smarter
AI.

At the same time, I invented the idea of a program to update the AI save game file. But in order to know what the program should do, I need data: so I offered a service: if you use this save game file to start a game, and if you want Japan to update but not do it yourself, send it to me. One of the RHS team will update production (etc.) - and send it back. But at the same time we will record what we had to do - and write algorithms to do it in an automatic program which - if it ever works as intended - we can distrubute. That would mean you can update the AI turn every day - in a few minutes.

This RHSMAIO Turn 1 was uploaded to the primary distribution list yesterday. It should appear on the RHS site in due course. I also have sent out individual copies today - in answer to requests.

< Message edited by el cid again -- 2/15/2008 10:46:58 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Guided AI and RHSMAIO (Experimental) - 2/12/2008 9:59:02 PM

el cid again

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline

IF the concept of a pre generated Turn 1 is well recieved, I will do the same thing for RHSAIO and RHSCAIO. However, neither can produce the challenge that RHSMAIO does - due to the lack of forces for CAIO - and code issues in AIO. Code does not have to sustain offensive operations in the SW Pacific Area to be effective - so MAIO is well taylored to an AI controlled Japan.

Note the Allies may NEVER be played well by AI - in any form of WITP.

RHAMAIO is a Russian Passive Scenario (because AI cannot do Active Russians) - and it has NO interior river systems (again, because AI does not understand these). IF you can accept both these things, and if you want a Japan enhansed scenario, RHSMAIO should be a good scenario
for human vs human play. It is quite different from the original historical campaign - and also from the alternative plan to invade Hawaii.

(in reply to el cid again)

Post #: 2

RE: Guided AI and RHSMAIO (Experimental) - 2/14/2008 1:10:53 PM

kellyc

Posts: 142
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

Where can we get this scenario/turn at?

Sincerely
KellyC

(in reply to el cid again)

Post #: 3

RE: Guided AI and RHSMAIO (Experimental) - 2/14/2008 2:16:28 PM

Kereguelen

Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

After releasing the scenario, I invented the idea of doing the first turn for the AI. AI only can play Japan - but a player has many things which
cannot be set in the scenario editors. Instead of using default secondary missions for aircraft, each may be specified. Task Forces can be set
to escort or follow each other. Industry can be set (or infrastructure set) to build or repair or not - case by case. So I have created a first turn
as an alternative way to start the scenario. Instead of loading the scenario, just load the save game file for Turn 1 - and you get a lot smarter
AI.

When it comes to AI operations, this will work only for some game turns. Afterwards the AI will return to its (coded) goals. No way to make the AI 'smarter' by this (will only confuse the poor, old AI).

(in reply to el cid again)

Post #: 4

RE: Guided AI and RHSMAIO (Experimental) - 2/14/2008 6:49:30 PM

el cid again

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kellyc

Where can we get this scenario/turn at?

Sincerely
KellyC

It is - or eventually will be - posted on the RHS site. Those on the RHS primary distribution list have it already. Anyone else can get it from anyone on that list - or from me - by asking for it.

(in reply to kellyc)

Post #: 5

RE: Guided AI and RHSMAIO (Experimental) - 2/14/2008 6:55:16 PM

el cid again

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

After releasing the scenario, I invented the idea of doing the first turn for the AI. AI only can play Japan - but a player has many things which
cannot be set in the scenario editors. Instead of using default secondary missions for aircraft, each may be specified. Task Forces can be set
to escort or follow each other. Industry can be set (or infrastructure set) to build or repair or not - case by case. So I have created a first turn
as an alternative way to start the scenario. Instead of loading the scenario, just load the save game file for Turn 1 - and you get a lot smarter
AI.

When it comes to AI operations, this will work only for some game turns. Afterwards the AI will return to its (coded) goals. No way to make the AI 'smarter' by this (will only confuse the poor, old AI).

It is more complicated than that. CHS and RHS deliberately exploit hard code for various purposes. In general, units are in their stock positions - even when they were changed - except when there is a reason not to want them to be - specifically a hard code reason. Thus - we have decided certain commands should be limited - or not - by slot. We have assigned non-malarial hexes - by slot. We defeated the altitude restrictions on P-39 and P-400 - in favor of a system that is uniform for altitude ratings for all aircraft - and indeed does restrict many types - rather than just two - by putting planes in those slots that simply cannot go high enough to matter. We have even managed to make Fort Drum not want to feed other units in the hex - because one (and as far as I know only one) slot permits us to do that. So some things we do put units in slots where the code is what we want it to be - or is not what we don't want it to be. Thus - a unit that in stock might invade some place won't want to go there - because it no longer is in the slot so coded. And most of this has nothing whatever to do with this thread: we assign slots to exploit (or avoid) hard code in the scenario editor.

Here we are after assigning initial values which cannot be properly assigned - and where defaults are either wrong - or not going to be set at all. Thus - no TF will ever follow another - if you load a scenario - but if you load this turn - I can make them do that. Virtually all air units get a default secondary mission - even if it should be rest or no mission at all - if you load a scenario - but if you load this turn - I can make the unit assignment be as it should be. So you get a much stronger opening move for Japan - and you don't have to bother to turn off repair for Allied aircraft factories either (because I did it all for you).

Nevertheless, AI is still stupid. It will still waste at least 85% of your shipping efficiency in various ways. It will still not upgrade aircraft more than one time per unit. It will still not transfer units to a different theater 99% of the time - or move those that are in the wrong place with the right command to that command area. SO a periodic update will make this work much better. Right now - we will do this manually. The goal is to produce a utility that does it for you - in 5 to 10 minutes - and you do it every turn. If we get there - we will seem to have made AI a whole lot smarter. Until we get there - it is up to you how often we "guide" the AI for you - and if you never do it after day one - it won't be nearly as good a thing as if we do it from time to time. The more often you have the basics of the AI side reviewed - the better it will work. As always - our slogan is "power to the players" - it is all up to you what you do. We only offer scenarios, utilities and services.

< Message edited by el cid again -- 2/14/2008 7:01:29 PM >

(in reply to Kereguelen)

Post #: 6

RE: Guided AI and RHSMAIO (Slightly revised initial turn) - 2/15/2008 10:49:53 PM

el cid again

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline

Save game file 10 - intended for Allied use - does not have production turned off at Salt Lake City for the Allies R&D aircraft.
You can do this manually.

I will issue a new file today where it is done for you.

Because this file does not have a password - there is no need for file 9 - you can see the Japanese if you set the type of game correctly.
And if you do want to use 9 - without the Allied "no" for aircraft production in place - it would not change in any case - so it will not
be reissued.

(in reply to el cid again)

Post #: 7

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Scenario Design >> Guided AI and RHSMAIO (Slightly revised initial turn)

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