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What ship? - 2/18/2008 3:18:01 PM   
juliet7bravo

 

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Status: offline 		IJN ship. Pic taken at Kiska, mid-1942. Gun mount is either a twin 25mm or 13.2mm MG. I don't know the answer, hoping someone else does. Looks like a small ship, DC racks (or mine rails?) on the fantail, with searchlight and AA gun mounts around the stack.






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RE: What ship? - 2/18/2008 3:44:20 PM   
tsimmonds


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Status: offline 		The canvas shrouded object in the foreground is a searchlight. To the right we have part of a tripod foremast. The gun barrels are from a mount behind and below that. Look to me like a twin 5" AA as would be found on Takao or Maya, both of which participated in the operation. That could be the starboard midships catapult, which was a prominent feature of these ships. Anyway, not a small ship.

Course it could be something else entirely

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RE: What ship? - 2/18/2008 4:22:18 PM   
juliet7bravo

 

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Status: offline 		Note: this is a clip from a movie.

I don't think those are gun barrels, look almost center of the pic for comparison...that's a twin 25 or 13.2mm mount.  Maybe those "gun barrels" are part of a storage rack for a small boat?  If you look back you can see the mine or DC racks on the stern, so that's either the rear/second smokestack and tripod mast, or the only smokestack and mast.  Just to the right of the possible DC/mine racks is another MG position firing, that looks like it's sandbagged.  I think it's either an older DD or a gunboat or MSW.  Given the distance between this stack/mast and the stern, it can't be too awfully big. 

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RE: What ship? - 2/18/2008 5:02:31 PM   
tsimmonds


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Status: offline 		The light AAA looks right for the quad 13.2mm Hotchkiss abreast Takao's after stack. Your sandbagged AA position could be a ships boat on the roof of the hangar, between the catapults. The reason that looks like the stern is because the top of the catapult is a deck and a half above the quarterdeck in this class. The forecastle break aft of the AA guns in the foreground.

Or not

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 2/18/2008 5:03:05 PM >

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RE: What ship? - 2/18/2008 5:06:20 PM   
tsimmonds


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Status: offline 		It is almost certainly Takao, which received the twin 12cm AA mount in exactly that position in May 1942. Maya retained a single 12cm there until her reconstruction as an AA cruiser following damage she received at Rabaul in Nov 1943.

By this time the quad 13.2mm had been replaced by a triple (or twin?) 25mm, which corresponds even better to the gun in the pic.

or it might be another ship

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 2/18/2008 6:07:42 PM >

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RE: What ship? - 2/18/2008 5:45:03 PM   
treespider


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Status: offline 		I'm going to guess Myoko class... The rails are the catapult...the block like structure with three black windows immediately in front of the rails is the motor launch...then to its right and coming forward in the photo is a triple 25 mount....the large twin barrel mount shrouded in canvas is one of the twin 12.7cm(5in) Type 89 HA guns.


Myoko and Haguro also supported the Kiska operation.


< Message edited by treespider -- 2/18/2008 5:46:57 PM >

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RE: What ship? - 2/18/2008 6:00:22 PM   
juliet7bravo

 

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Status: offline 		I think you're absolutely correct sir...and what I'm calling "DC rails" would be the catapult rigged fore and aft.  Duh!  

I'll start looking at the CA's...Talk about reading into a pic what you want to see...


< Message edited by juliet7bravo -- 2/18/2008 6:01:28 PM >

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RE: What ship? - 2/18/2008 6:05:01 PM   
tsimmonds


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Status: offline 		Myoko and Haguro were with Kondo's Covering Group of the Midway Occupation Force, but sister Nachi was Hosogaya's flagship in the Northern Area Force, so it could be her. Still like Takao better though

Good call on the motor launch, couldn't figure that part out....

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RE: What ship? - 2/18/2008 6:05:59 PM   
treespider


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Status: offline 		Or its the Takao......the twin barrels are actually behind the canvas mount.

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RE: What ship? - 2/18/2008 6:09:58 PM   
tsimmonds


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Status: offline 		The canvas covered object is a searchlight, not a gun mount.

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RE: What ship? - 2/18/2008 6:20:22 PM   
Shark7


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Status: offline 		Looks to be a Myoko class. The arrangement of the boats, guns, searchlight and catapult lead me to that conclusion. BTW, that 25mm appears to be a single mount, which would be correct for an early war Myoko.

Being able to see a bit more of the ship would really help on the ID.

Edit: upon closer look seems the 25mm is only a single, still correct for a Myoko.

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 2/18/2008 6:22:39 PM >

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RE: What ship? - 2/18/2008 6:33:34 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		Jeez, you guys are too good.  Your ability to ID ships, aircraft, etc. from just a detail or two is amazing.

It reminds me of a (true) story from a natural history class at the University of Georgia taught by professor Ernie Provost back in the '70s.  This class covered the anatomy of wildlife in exhaustive detail.  Dr. Provost's tests would require students to identify an animal from a single bone, feather, or other feature.  On occasion, Dr. Provost would toss a stuffed bird across the classroom and ask his studen'ts to identify it. His tests were REALLY hard.

During one test, a student became frustrated, then grew increasingly agitated.  Finally, the student gave up, walked to the front of the class, turned in his paper, and walked toward the door.  Dr. Provost quickly glanced over the paper and said to the student, "Just a minute young man; you forgot to write you name on the test.  What is your name?" 

The student stopped, pulled up his pants leg, and said, "Guess."






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RE: What ship? - 2/18/2008 8:35:10 PM   
juliet7bravo

 

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Status: offline 		Almost positive the light AA mount showing is a twin, you can see it firing in the video.  Plus, it looks like it has 2 box magazines sticking out the top.  There's another right behind the curve of the stack, to the right of the catapult rail, you can see the muzzle blast in the video when it fires...I think it's a twin as well, though it's hard to tell.

Takao and Maya's floatplanes were shot up on 3 June '42. 2x shot down, 2x heavy damage...could be why there's no floatplane on the catapult.

Here's a model pic of TAKAO...I don't think it lines up. Orange arrow is the LOS you'd have to have. Heavy AA mount is ahead of the searchlight mount, and there would be another light AA mount in the picture.





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< Message edited by juliet7bravo -- 2/18/2008 9:24:10 PM >

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RE: What ship? - 2/18/2008 10:20:22 PM   
Shark7


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Status: offline 		After looking again, I'm 99% positive it will be the CA Nachi. Even the the 25mm Mount is a double, it would be correct for Nachi. The searchlight in the foreground could obscure the gun director from this angle.

Here's a few pics of a model of the Nachi, some with some good amid-ships views.

http://www.steelnavy.com/HasgawaNachiBC.htm

At any rate, you can look at the models versus the picture in the OP and see the similarities.

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