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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Plans for AI Game Page: [1]
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Plans for AI Game - 2/23/2008 4:45:17 PM   
Jam_USMC


Posts: 63
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Missouri
Status: offline 		I know there was recently a thread debating the ills of the AI recently so I will try to be specific here. I would like to play PBEM and understand that said practice approaches nirvana, however, due to time and circumstances I don't think it would be fair to others to drag them into something that I am not positive I can follow through on. So, no need for comparisons here.

That said,
What I would like to do is...

START playing as just the commander of US and Australian forces in the West Coast and Pacific commands, leaving all other zones to the AI forces to fight amongst themselves. Then, as my brilliant strategy unleashes and spreads across the vast expanse I would take control of the new zones as I conquer new lands. Therefore, taking control of whatever situation General/Admiral AI has left me with up to that point in time.

My questions are.....

Has anyone tried this before (I know somebody has, or is) and how well does it work?
Does it just create a bigger mess?
Did you discover some overwhelming reason to stop playing this way?
Did you feel like you were missing half the war have to eventually jump all in?
I guess I am just asking for genreal impressions/advice on the matter. And if, in your opinion, it "works".
Lastly, I am more about the journey and enoying the historical recreation, though poor it may be, than about "winning" the game, so I don't care how many "points" I lose at the start.

Since the time I had fallen into this horrid morass called Witp and its sadistic forum I have moved, gotten a new job--government pogey, and had my fist son, so I have been out of the loop for a while but have been keeping up, so in order to do some catching up:

35 yrs.

I play weekends and evenings. Too new at my job to risk playing there........yet.

ISTJ

PBEM is better--I get it, seriously.

One AI game at a time.

It was my grandfather's WWII stories that got me interested in history at a young age. He fought with the 71st infantry division (hence, my avatar) and was/is my hero more for the way he lived his life the 77 years he wasn't in uniform.

Letters was pretty good and Flags was better. I may have a degree in history but I watch movies to laugh or to cry or just be entertained. Movies are art and should not be taken as fact or history or educational. But they should be debated, for that is when they become educational--just don't pull a brain muscle.

There is no such thing as Truth.

I don't know who he is or what ship that was.

_____________________________

"Before we're through with 'em, the AI language will be spoken only in Hell!"
Post #: 1
RE: Plans for AI Game - 2/23/2008 5:00:11 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline 		Leaving control of some zones to the AI usually ends up badly as the AI control tends to leak over to other zones and you'll find your forces behaving erratically and refusing to take orders etc.

(in reply to Jam_USMC)
Post #: 2
RE: Plans for AI Game - 2/23/2008 5:06:12 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline 		Best way to find out is simply to jump in and do it. It's your game, and the only one who will suffer if it doesn't work out is you. Give it a try and let the rest of us know what problems you encounter...

(in reply to Jam_USMC)
Post #: 3
RE: Plans for AI Game - 2/23/2008 5:45:32 PM   
Jam_USMC


Posts: 63
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

Best way to find out is simply to jump in and do it. It's your game, and the only one who will suffer if it doesn't work out is you. Give it a try and let the rest of us know what problems you encounter...


Sound, and fatherly, advice which I agree with. And you have helped me to clarify what I am asking. I know there are AI players out there besides myself, but I have never heard discussion on the particular strategy I want to try. I am not asking for someone else to tell me whether or not it will be fun for me, just whether or not there is some unforseen "game-breaker" down the road that someone else has experienced.

I guess I should have asked it that way the first time.

Thanks,
Jamie

_____________________________

"Before we're through with 'em, the AI language will be spoken only in Hell!"

(in reply to Mike Scholl)
Post #: 4
RE: Plans for AI Game - 2/23/2008 5:49:03 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline 		The AI will do some dumb things..., but if you are just starting out you probably will too. Once you learn how to play, it will be a less and less satisfactory opponant..., unless you just liked kicking your little brother and want to relive the experiance.

(in reply to Jam_USMC)
Post #: 5
RE: Plans for AI Game - 2/23/2008 7:04:22 PM   
Rainer

 

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
Status: offline 		I'm just in the last weeks of a game as you described (July 45). I'm handling US Forces (and Australian, New Zealand) only, leaving British and Chinese Forces completely under AI / Computer Control.
My experience: you can leave most of the areas under computer control except:
- Zone South
If South is under Computer Control there will be "disturbences" in the neighbouring Zone SE (under human control); e.g. LCUs will warp, air units will reset given orders, and so on. Set Zone South to Human Control and you'll be fine.
- Zone NE
If Zone NE is under Computer Control supply convoys never leave West Coast ports. Set Zone NE to Human control and you'll be fine.

To make the whole thing a bit more challenging set AI Level to Very Hard. You can also try to achieve final victory without use of nuclear weapons and before August 15, 1945. This will be quite challenging.
Best wishes and good luck.

(in reply to Jam_USMC)
Post #: 6
RE: Plans for AI Game - 2/23/2008 7:41:17 PM   
Jam_USMC


Posts: 63
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

The AI will do some dumb things..., but if you are just starting out you probably will too. Once you learn how to play, it will be a less and less satisfactory opponant..., unless you just liked kicking your little brother and want to relive the experiance.



No kicking here, I want a challenge. But I guess what I was hoping was that since both sides of the AI would be left to their own devices outside of the zones I contolled that they basically would play themselves into to a draw, and then once I moved into a zone and began controlling all of the forces there, that there would still be a challenge left for me to play out. But, since every game plays out differently, as you said earlier, I will just have to play it out and find out myself.

quote:



ORIGINAL: Rainer

If South is under Computer Control there will be "disturbences" in the neighbouring Zone SE (under human control); e.g. LCUs will warp, air units will reset given orders, and so on. Set Zone South to Human Control and you'll be fine.


So the AI might commandeer some forces just outside their zone. Sounds MacArthur-ish. Probably something I could live with--to a point.

Kinda what I am shooting for is a taste of RPG, if possible, where I am Nimitz, then Nimitz/MacArhtur moving westward POV instead of God of the Pacific POV.





_____________________________

"Before we're through with 'em, the AI language will be spoken only in Hell!"

(in reply to Mike Scholl)
Post #: 7
RE: Plans for AI Game - 2/24/2008 1:43:45 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		IMHO, you should play the whole game, maybe China can be handed to the computer. There is so much going on, should I switch the RN to the Pacific, do I go via Wake,Marcus or Gcanal, Truk, Dutch Harbour & Attu.....
Especially after about Mar-Apr42 when DEI,Malaya & Burma are usually occupied it becomes easier.

I like to run a turn Head to Head, just to check that japanese production is doing OK and sometimes to send the AK's back to Osaka. (Maybe every 3 months)

Try to be "real" and stucture your efforts properly, Garrison bases to a realistic level, you can abuse the foibles of the AI which is not what you want.

Be careful, AI Betties still carry the same torp out to the same ranges!!!!




_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to Jam_USMC)
Post #: 8
RE: Plans for AI Game - 2/26/2008 12:30:11 AM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		I play against the Japanese AI exclusively for now, havent played any PBEM for similar reasons, i have odd work shcedules and such.
I started my first ever WitP game commanding only CenPac forces and quickly removed the AI for my other forces because it simply is not "fun" when you see alot of Task Forces headed straight for Japanese held bases with their air forces and/or KB waiting to maul them.
Other strange happenings will include fragments of your LCU's scattered about the map and out of supply issues.
Best thing to do if I were you is keeping all of your holdings under your control but just ignore the theaters you do not wish to command for now, at least they won't end up out scattered about the map or sent to their doom.
Have fun and you will be surprised how fast you will pick up the mechanics of this game, it doesn't take long especially if you put forth effort.
good luck.

_____________________________

It doesn't make any sense, Admiral. Were we better than the Japanese or just luckier?


Banner By Feurer Krieg

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 9
RE: Plans for AI Game - 2/27/2008 6:54:21 AM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline 		I've played two games like this, and never experienced the "leakage" problem, but apparently that was just from sheer dumb luck in choosing the "right" zones for human play. Specifically:

1) Play only as the Dutch in SWA. It's pretty humorous, actually. The AI will absolutely maul you. Not much can be done, but it's pretty cool trying. About the shortest "Campaign" scenario you'll ever play through to conclusion, too.

2) Brits in India. Much more fun, and you have a chance to actually do some damage before all is said and done. Leakage isn't a problem since you're effectively isolated from all the other zones (or soon will be, anyway).

Other than playing "Japs in China", I can't see many alternatives for a "fun" partial campaign as the Japanese, since all your zones are so tightly integrated. Playing only the IJN while leaving the IJA under AI control would be hugely cool, but sadly it's not possible. If the AE guys could figure out how to make that workable, it would be awesome.

(in reply to Gem35)
Post #: 10
RE: Plans for AI Game - 2/27/2008 6:08:14 PM   
engineer

 

Posts: 590
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline 		I've "graduated" from WPO to WitP so I've just started a grand campaign as the Allies against historical Japanese AI.  I'm running all the the fronts except China.  My WPO experience helped on the basic game mechanics, but the increased capability of aircraft in WW2 makes for a totally different game experience.  Also, working the synergies in the engine (air, land, supply, headquarters, leadership, etc.) greatly magnify your combat effectiveness and will ultimately make for a lopsided game since good human players are better at this than the AI. 

First, mistakes will happen as you come up the learning curve.  You might want to consider playing a game month or so as a tutorial then restart. 

Second, I'd second the suggestion about adjusting the difficulty level.  While Japanese ran wild in December and January, by late April I've put the Japanese significantly behind their historical schedule (and sunk the Soryu to boot!)  The better you are, the tougher the Japanese need to be to prevent "bullying" the AI. 

Third, I've noticed a "theater bias" as the game progresses.  At a strategic level you allocate forces to particular headquarters districts and then at an operational level within each headquarters area you then use those forces for local objectives.   So Malaya becomes the siege of Singapore, Burma/India becomes the Battle for Mandalay, SWPac becomes the defense of Rabaul/Port Moresby, etc. Each turn then becomes implementing the operational plans for each.  The number of fronts you run becomes a function of how many balls you can keep in the air.  WitP is good in the sense you partly play at the King/Marshall level of high level strategy but then you spend most of your time at the Nimitz/MacArthur/Mountbatten level of operational planning.  WitP is NOT a tactical game.

Fourth, the more fronts you run, the more time it takes.  There's a separate thread about how long the first turn takes. At the outset of my game, I was taking upwards of two hours a turn, but that's come down to about 45 minutes now. 

Ultimately, it's what you make of it.

< Message edited by engineer -- 2/27/2008 6:10:18 PM >

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 11
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