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Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/23/2009 4:54:38 PM

Bombur

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Downloaded them from the site. Thank you. The big trouble we are looking at now is that the AI, after a very fast start (in a few turns they research 1910-1919 units), seems to stop all research and accumulates fantatisct amounts of pp points (up to 7000, and increasing). The question is: why the AI stops research? Maybe Vic could help with this question?

(in reply to Zaratoughda)

Post #: 211

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/24/2009 12:37:00 AM

Vic

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Probably because the AI neeeds research field 1920-1929 before it can research any further units, but it doesnt see any need to research that field... probably because the SFType picture linked to that 1920-1929 research field is something the AI does not want to construct. Maybe its an SFType without any AIRole scores the AI needs?

You can check the log files in the log directory to see how the AI is ranking all possible research fields.

kind regards,
Vic

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 212

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/24/2009 3:52:12 PM

Bombur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Probably because the AI neeeds research field 1920-1929 before it can research any further units, but it doesnt see any need to research that field... probably because the SFType picture linked to that 1920-1929 research field is something the AI does not want to construct. Maybe its an SFType without any AIRole scores the AI needs?

You can check the log files in the log directory to see how the AI is ranking all possible research fields.

kind regards,
Vic

-How do I check these ones? If the AI researching Airships, why they rate other units lower? 1920-29 fields are:

-Air: Early torpedo bombers
-Land: AT Rifles
-Naval: Battlecruiser III

-They are actually more useful than 1900-1909 fields
-Air: Zeppelins
-Land: Early truck
-Naval: Submarines

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 213

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/24/2009 4:09:45 PM

Bombur

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I looked to the AI log and, while it seems the AI is building artillery and fighters (which is good), I didn´t find any research ranking...

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Post #: 214

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/24/2009 4:24:57 PM

Bombur

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Also chcked the AI roles and it´s all ok. Actually, it seems the AI is stalling somewhere in 1910´s units, and not in the 1920´s gates

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RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/24/2009 4:38:27 PM

Vic

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In the log of the AI search for "research" and you should find a report like this.

quote:

RESEARCH
Saved pp: 9, Normal pp: 46
bestseamod= 0.0114315
Bazooka .. weight = 400, previous weight= 4, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Tankdestroyer .. weight = 100, previous weight= 1, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Flak .. weight = 400, previous weight= 4, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Fighter .. weight = 500, previous weight= 5, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Levelbomber .. weight = 600, previous weight= 6, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Divebomber .. weight = 600, previous weight= 6, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Rifle II .. weight = 184, previous weight= 4, powerpointpercentmod= 16
Light Tank II .. weight = 100, previous weight= 1, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Artillery II .. weight = 700, previous weight= 7, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Infantry Gun III .. weight = 257, previous weight= 3, powerpointpercentmod= 5
AT-Gun II .. weight = 600, previous weight= 6, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Medium Tank II .. weight = 0, previous weight= 0, powerpointpercentmod= 4
Heavy Tank II .. weight = 89, previous weight= 1, powerpointpercentmod= 4
Machinegun III .. weight = 75, previous weight= 1, powerpointpercentmod= 8
Scout II .. weight = 400, previous weight= 4, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Mortar III .. weight = 200, previous weight= 2, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Cruiser II .. weight = 0, previous weight= 0, powerpointpercentmod= 4

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 216

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/24/2009 11:46:10 PM

Bombur

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My report has only the two first lines....well, I give up. I´m going to prepare a new version of the mod withouth the gates...

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 217

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 3:33:32 AM

Jeffrey H.

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Why not add an AIRole score to the gate ?

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

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RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 6:53:16 AM

Zaratoughda

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Really! Actually, why not add multiple AIRoles to the gate? That should get the AI to build it I would think for sure.

Z

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RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 11:59:32 AM

Bombur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

Why not add an AIRole score to the gate ?

I did....but, for some strange reason, doesn´t work. My version withouth gates seems to be working somewhat better. The AI developed up to mortars III, but still seems to stall after that unit.

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)

Post #: 220

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 1:39:41 PM

Bombur

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Here is an AI log with the new mod...

RESEARCH
Added 21 pp to savedpp of regime. which is now: 21
Saved pp: 21, Normal pp: 10
bestseamod= 0.1133908
Infantry gun I .. weight = 1600, previous weight= 16, powerpointpercentmod= 1

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Post #: 221

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 5:15:42 PM

Vic

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This means that at that moment the AI thinks the only thing it can research is Infantry Gun I.

Is that right?

If not you have to compare what Infantry Gun I research field has that the others that should be availble have not?

You might want to test this with giving the AI like 5000 PP to start with so you can see it buy research.

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 222

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 6:45:18 PM

Bombur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

This means that at that moment the AI thinks the only thing it can research is Infantry Gun I.

Is that right?

If not you have to compare what Infantry Gun I research field has that the others that should be availble have not?

You might want to test this with giving the AI like 5000 PP to start with so you can see it buy research.

No, Vic, it isn´t right. There are many other fields to research for the AI. A trouble I thhink that could be happening is that I´ve created too much SF groups (four ships SF groups for instance) and maybe the AI becomes confused on how does each researchfield compares with others. I think it will be a looong time until I can have a working AI for this mod, so it would be better to make the definitive release of Bombur mod as an PBEM only mod, while, I can try to have a simplified tech tree for AI games.

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 223

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 6:52:52 PM

Bombur

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Here is the data on an AI with 5000 points (using the version with gates)
Turn 1
RESEARCH
Added 4987 pp to savedpp of regime. which is now: 4987
Saved pp: 4987, Normal pp: 10
bestseamod= 1000
Zeppelin .. weight = 12700, previous weight= 127, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Bought researchfield: Air units 1900-1909

The AI actually has three options to research (Submarine I and early trucks are the other)

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 224

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 6:55:30 PM

Bombur

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Here is the log for turn 2

RESEARCH
Added 48 pp to savedpp of regime. which is now: 4908
Saved pp: 4908, Normal pp: 10
bestseamod= 1000

-The AI simply ignores the other fields. But we will know that they will research them latter. Let us see what happens.

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 225

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 6:57:36 PM

Bombur

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Turn three, and the AI researchs Naval Unit I (Submarine I)

RESEARCH
Added 23 pp to savedpp of regime. which is now: 4931
Saved pp: 4931, Normal pp: 10
bestseamod= 1000
Submarine I .. weight = 800, previous weight= 8, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Bought researchfield: Naval units 1900-1909

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 226

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 7:04:11 PM

Bombur

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Turn 4. The AI bypasses the Light truck (which is the third 1900´s gate) and goes right for machinegun 1. I thought the trouble could be here. In other words, by bypassing this unit, the AI makes all the post 1910 research collapse. In such event I could create the fake Truck you mentioned before.

RESEARCH
Saved pp: 4804, Normal pp: 13
bestseamod= 0.06666667
Machinegun II .. weight = 3700, previous weight= 37, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Bought researchfield: Land units 1910-1919

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 227

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 7:07:18 PM

Bombur

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Turn 5. With access with 1910-1919 units, the AI starts to research 1910´s infantry.

RESEARCH
Saved pp: 4677, Normal pp: 16
bestseamod= 0.06666667
SMG I .. weight = 1700, previous weight= 17, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Mortar I .. weight = 3200, previous weight= 32, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Bought researchfield: SMG I
Bought researchfield: Mortar I

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 228

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 7:10:31 PM

Bombur

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The AI goes researching infantry. If they don´t start to research the Early truck, their research will stall soon.

RESEARCH
Saved pp: 4595, Normal pp: 21
bestseamod= 0.06666667
Special Forces I .. weight = 1900, previous weight= 19, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Bought researchfield: Special Forces I

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 229

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 7:13:58 PM

Bombur

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Turn 7 and the AI seems to have stopped r&d

RESEARCH
Saved pp: 4557, Normal pp: 22
bestseamod= 0.06666667

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 230

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 7:17:29 PM

Bombur

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Turn 8 and research is stalled. So the trouble is in the truck, not in the ballons. Now we will try with a fake early truck with improved anti infantry ratings.

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 231

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 7:36:50 PM

Bombur

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Pointing the research field to a fake truck with good anti infantry and anti armour rates didn´t work. Changing the AIROLE of this fake truck to armour also didn´t work. I´m running out of ideas.....

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Post #: 232

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 7:39:17 PM

Vic

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I think the AI might not at all be interested in AIRole=Mobilizer. And you might want to avoid making such a an AIRole SFType a bottleneck

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 233

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 10:01:33 PM

Bombur

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I considered this too, but changing the AI Role for the fake truck didn´t work. Maybe the fake truck should have a different picture? Currently it has same picture but a different SF slot.

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 234

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/25/2009 10:12:05 PM

Bombur

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Tried to give the tech to the AI, but the research stalls anyway. Well, I give up. I´m going to release v1.00 as PBEM only file. I will study ways to make the mod AI compatible latter.

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 235

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/26/2009 8:09:10 PM

Jeffrey H.

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From: San Diego, Ca.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

Turn 4. The AI bypasses the Light truck (which is the third 1900´s gate) and goes right for machinegun 1. I thought the trouble could be here. In other words, by bypassing this unit, the AI makes all the post 1910 research collapse. In such event I could create the fake Truck you mentioned before.

RESEARCH
Saved pp: 4804, Normal pp: 13
bestseamod= 0.06666667
Machinegun II .. weight = 3700, previous weight= 37, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Bought researchfield: Land units 1910-1919

Not sure what it means but I noticed your turn 4 "bestseamod" parameter dropped like a rock this turn.

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 236

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/26/2009 11:47:43 PM

Bombur

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That´s a good question....

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)

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RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/27/2009 8:11:22 PM

Jeffrey H.

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I guess I don't understand fully what the gates are doing there in concept. Is it that once a gate is passed, (purchased) new techs are released ?

Are the old techs obsoleted or blocked ? So, if a gate is passed then techs not selected are no longer available ? For instance, If I pass the gate without buying the previous level techs, I can't purchase those techs at all, (not even the old ones) in my current era ?

I think the concept is workable and interesting, but I don't understand how they work ATM.

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 238

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/27/2009 8:13:28 PM

Jeffrey H.

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From: San Diego, Ca.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

That´s a good question....

I also noticed that once the T3 naval tech gate was purchased, that parameter dropped. I guess it had something to do with naval vs. land development paths.

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Bombur)

Post #: 239

RE: Why the AI doesn´t research? - 2/27/2009 8:56:09 PM

Zaratoughda

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From: NE Pa, USA
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Just one comment on reading this thread...... from what Vic said as well as what I have seen myself.... it appears that the AI does not research mobilizers (e.g. improved trucks and whatever). So, if you took out the requirement of going to the next level of having the truck researched, there is a good chance that the research would not get stopped.

Also, being that the AI does not research mobilizers, you might want to consider giving that research free when you reach a new level. In other words, the improved truck would come with Land Units 1910-1920... or something along those lines. Just not sure how you might do that.

Hope this helps,

Z

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)

Post #: 240