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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >>

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- 4/4/2002 11:00:47 PM

TIMJOT

Posts: 1822
Joined: 4/30/2001
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I concur in general with Jeremy and Mogami in regards the the Bataan death march. "Philipine War Diary" (Melnik)an eyewitness account pretty much supports their post. The main reason for the march was to get the prisoners cleared from the area so the attack on Corregedore could commense. The main reasons for the conditions endured was a total logistics breakdown. The Japanase had expected between 20,000-30,000 prisoners not over 70,000. The brutality can be attributed the individuals commiting them, according to Melnik the worst offenders were the rear area "reservest" troops. The combat troops were general less brutal and treated the prisoners reasonbably well with the exception of robbing them blind.

Still even if Homma can be excused for the logistical aspects of the death march because they were unavoidable under the circumstances. As commander however he must ultimately be held responsible for loseing control and hence allowing the brutality, murder, and torture to occure at the expense of both prisoners and civilians.

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 61

- 4/4/2002 11:08:34 PM

TIMJOT

Posts: 1822
Joined: 4/30/2001
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jeremy Pritchard
[B]

If you REALLY look at a great military leader you will find plausible deniability, the main difference is that they were never caught, or their military won. These 'great military leaders' were not perfect, and in fact were great by their ability to plausibly deny any act of wrong doing. Montgomery was one, so was Patton, MacArthur, the same with Rommel. They were willing to accept responsibility for victory, but never in defeat or costly victory. The reason that they remained 'great' in the public eye was that they WERE ABLE to shift responsibility lower down the ranks. If you look closely at these, and other, great generals, you will see complacency with autrocity, inability to accept responsibility, as well as willingness to let someone else take the blame (and them the credit).

Name me one institution that ever, on their own (without outside or media pressure) who have ever fixed responsibility on those responsible. Scapegoats exist all over, and in every military. [/B][/QUOTE]

I have to diagree in regards to Rommel. There is documented evidence that proves he repeatedly ingnored directives regarding the treatment of Jewish prisoners. He aslo quite parodoxically for the times refused SA officers demand to be seperated from their black soldiers. I can say I have never read any accounts were troops under Rommels command committed atrocities. Unless of course you consider the atrocities committed at Normandy by certain SS troops, but the SS were only nominally under his command and besides I think they actually occured after he was wounded and no longer in command. Not sure though.

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 62

true: Japanese reservists - 4/4/2002 11:10:53 PM

Kawama

Posts: 4
Joined: 3/13/2002
From: Japan
Status: offline

A variety of sources, both foreign and Japanese, concur that reservists tended to be the most brutal, although there are exceptions.

One particularly good example of life inside a Japanese unit, Hanama Tasaki's "Long the Imperial Way" (which was a novelized account of his experiences as a soldier in China) explains at some length, if I recall, how reserveist troops were frequently the instigators of many atrocious acts and breeches of discipline. Their age and prior service often made them difficult targets for NCOs and younger officers.

Interesting topic, in and of itself, actually...

-k

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 63

Should this thread be renamed? - 4/10/2002 12:44:56 AM

Basement Command

Posts: 64
Joined: 11/1/2001
From: Boise, ID
Status: offline

Not to say that the Battan Death March, and related topics are inappropriate to this fourm. I guess I was just hoping today would be the day I'd see a new post in this thread that said something like "It's Done Now". OK' I'll go back in my defensively prepared cave (basement). Just try and root me out! As you were ;)

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 64

- 4/13/2002 1:58:18 AM

corbulo

Posts: 213
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: rigel 5
Status: offline

ya me canse de esperar.
I am tired of waiting.

_____________________________

virtute omne regatur

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 65