Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: miller41

in my current PBEM I just took Palambang and the damage to the oil was 1300 out of 1400  (CHS 157)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Didn't Japan actually have special engineer units during the war just to repair the oil industries in the DEI. Thought I remember reading that somewhere.

Other things I've noticed. Against the AI I've tested by attacking, checking results, replaying the turn...then wait a few days and reattack. I've found in this case that the die roll must be tied to the attacking unit and its current AV, cause without changing the troops you will get the exact same results no matter if you take an undefended base immediately or by waiting.

I took Miri with 97 damage in this test. Replayed the turn, waited till the next turn, same result. Replayed again waiting 4 game days, got the same result.

Has anyone else found that to be true, or do I just have an extremely rare case of super bad luck?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Didn't Japan actually have special engineer units during the war just to repair the oil industries in the DEI. Thought I remember reading that somewhere.

Other things I've noticed. Against the AI I've tested by attacking, checking results, replaying the turn...then wait a few days and reattack. I've found in this case that the die roll must be tied to the attacking unit and its current AV, cause without changing the troops you will get the exact same results no matter if you take an undefended base immediately or by waiting.

I took Miri with 97 damage in this test. Replayed the turn, waited till the next turn, same result. Replayed again waiting 4 game days, got the same result.

Has anyone else found that to be true, or do I just have an extremely rare case of super bad luck?

Did you reboot your machine between tests? Strange things can happen if you don't...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Didn't Japan actually have special engineer units during the war just to repair the oil industries in the DEI. Thought I remember reading that somewhere.

Other things I've noticed. Against the AI I've tested by attacking, checking results, replaying the turn...then wait a few days and reattack. I've found in this case that the die roll must be tied to the attacking unit and its current AV, cause without changing the troops you will get the exact same results no matter if you take an undefended base immediately or by waiting.

I took Miri with 97 damage in this test. Replayed the turn, waited till the next turn, same result. Replayed again waiting 4 game days, got the same result.

Has anyone else found that to be true, or do I just have an extremely rare case of super bad luck?

Did you reboot your machine between tests? Strange things can happen if you don't...

Actually no I didn't. Perhaps that explains why it was stuck on giving me the same results?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Did you reboot your machine between tests? Strange things can happen if you don't...

Actually no I didn't. Perhaps that explains why it was stuck on giving me the same results?

Maybe - as i said, strange things can happen...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker
It's total nonsense that whatever you do, you can only repair one point per turn...

quote:

ORIGINAL: rominet

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Did you reboot your machine between tests? Strange things can happen if you don't...

Actually no I didn't. Perhaps that explains why it was stuck on giving me the same results?

Maybe - as i said, strange things can happen...

Yes, when you load a save, let play the computer (combat), quit, reload, let play the computer
(combat), quit, reload again ... and so on, it always gives the same results;
i made the tests; and it is absolutely normal because as japanese player, i could be tempted to use this procedure until i have a good combat turn (favorable) to me;
it would be stupid

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Contrawise, it is completely ahistoric to not be able to disable something before the enemy kills all your engineers and takes it (demolitions of facilities was done historically in the case of some ports, airfields, mines, oilfields) - so perhaps the whole business evens out.

• First lucky die is rolled with 33% chance of success. If it will success the procedure ends here with all Resource/Oil Centers left intact. However Japanese player should not count on it in case of Palembang (Murphy's Law at work). Maybe at Miri or Taytay...
  
• Otherwise a number is to be calculated, I will call it Demolition Ability number (DemoAbility from now on). Please note it is a name invented by me - I have no clue about designer/programmer ideas so it is just a guess on my side. Anyway calculation goes like that:
  
  
  
  • First DemoAbility is set to fixed number (50). In case there is no defender units it will be the final value used to calculate demolition percentage.
    
  • For every unit defending the base a product of that unit's Experience and unit's raw E-Value is calculated, divided by 10 and then added to DemoAbility totals. But what the E-Value really is?:
    
    
    
    • It is per unit intermediate value set (elsewhere) based on unit's composition. I named it E-Value per analogy to E value (and A, G, F, V values) you can see in tooltip when hoovering the mouse over friendly units on map.
      
    • Every Engineer team (slot 251) adds up 1 to unit's E-Value.
      
    • Every Eng. Vehicle (slot 250) adds up 5 to unit's E-Value.
      
    • Apparently disabled elements of the above are not excluded here. This is different then for E value displayed in tooltip which accounts only for non-disabled elements. So I tend to think about this internal E-value as "raw" one. Nevertheless it seems that this raw value is what matters for demolition purposes. If so disabling elements is not enough and to limit losses you need to kill them. Kill'em all if you can . If you can't you take a risk of raising their Experience.
      
    • The thing which is not clear to me yet is question if the losses taken in the last combat (one resulting in base capture) have influence on unit's E-Value used here. I tend to think they are not but I'm far from sure here (it is difficult to differentiate here between losses in combat and that taken in forced retreat). Same goes for unit's Experience.
      
    
    
  • After looping throuch all defenders it is time for "unlucky' die roll. There is 33% chance that bad luck will hit Samurai resulting in multiplying DemoAbility by 10. Doom... Doom is hanging over that precious Palembang R/OCs.
    
  
  
• Now another number is caluclated. Let's call it Demolition Targets (DemoTargets):
  
  
  
  • Airfield adds up its level to DemoTargets totals.
    
  • Same with Port adding its level to DemoTargets totals.
    
  • Now go through a loop over all base facitility slots (there is up to 20 facilities in base possible).
    
    
    
    • Exclude Mapower Centers facility.
      
    • For any other facility (in SRA area there will be mostly R/O Centers, sometimes also HI factories and shipyards) add SizeOfFacility/100+1 to DemoTargets.
      
    • Strange as it is (and intended or not ) loop does not skip over empty slots. So as a result of this loop it is guranteed to raise DemoTargets by at least 19: 20 slots - 1 slot for MC facility which is present in every base with R/OCs.
      
    
    
  • Examples: For Miri we get DemoTargets=21 (0[AF]+1[Port]+19+1[OilC/100]), for Balikpapan DemoTargets=36 (4+4+19+6[RC/100]+3[OC/100])
    
  
  
• Finally we get to calculating achived Demolition Percentage (DemoPctage). It is simply a result of division DemoAbility by DemoTargets. Please note that it is integer division so for example: 50/21=2% of damage (case typical for Miri).
  
• DemoPctage is now applied to Airfield (Runaway) and Port. Please remember that it adds up to already existing damage from bombardments or land combat.
  
• Base Supply and Fuel Storage is reduced by random percentage (between 0 and DemoPctage-1). However as it is not the only place where Supply/Fuel depots can be reduced it is difficult to verify numbers precisly.
  
• Now looping trough all Base facilities again:
  
  
  
  • exclude Manpower Center facility (again). Actually MCs are reduced but in procedure above of that handling R/OC Demolition.
    
  • For all other facilities DemoPctage percentage of facility is disabled. Again integer arthmetic is used. So for example if DemoPctage=2 and RC=10 then no RC get disabled, for DemoPctage=19 and RC=10 still only 1 of 10 RCenters will be disabled.
    
  • For Oil facility there is second hit applied (probably to model much higher vulnerability of Oil wells comparing to Resource mines?). After apply DemoPctage as above we repeat the procedure again in the same way. For example: for DemoPctage=6 and OC=300 after first step we get OC=282(18); after repetition final result is OC=266(34) (this is quite typical case for Brunei, though beeing unlucky one can get DemoPctage=60! ).
    
  
  
• That's it .
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Uamaga, where did you come up with all of that detailed information???  It looks more detailed than if you just "came up with something."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Uamaga

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Uamaga, where did you come up with all of that detailed information???  It looks more detailed than if you just "came up with something."

Heh... As I said in case of Aircraft Research: lot os time spend in peeking into the code (no, not source code of course) plus a bit of "field testing". I tried to describe it precisly to give others chance to verify it against real cases. I hope it will defend itself but will see

quote:

ORIGINAL: rominet


I agree
What i don't agree with, is the impossibility to repair more than 1 oil pts centers per day.
In the case of miller41 (see above), the war is effectively nearly lost, and due only the a
die roll;
Even if i am the best strategist of the world, i will probably lose the war due to a stupid thing. It's a shame

A good solution would have been to replace for example at Palembang, the (0)X700 oil
center by 7 (0)x100 oil centers.