Slitherine

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Civil War scholars generally agree that that the Union fight to "free the slaves" is pretty inaccurate. There seemed to be many reasons why they fought. Maintain the union was certainly the main reason

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ORIGINAL: juliet7bravo

Had to do a paper once (details hazy now) for a professor with pronounced political leanings...bottomline, what he was looking for was that the colonists were largely apolitical and a few individuals pushed/incited revolution for personal gain. A minority in favor, most apathetic, used more or less staged/fabricated/embellished events to drive their agenda and whip up the masses. British over-reacted, harsh measures pushed more into the revolution camp, snowballed from there. Tax issue was a red herring, the nacent exploiters (aka "Founding Fathers") real issue was the British trade laws reducing their ability to make the big bucks via manufacturing and carrying the resulting trade on the own (colonial) ships. British policy and law envisioned the colonies as sources of raw materials and captive markets for their own British produced finished products and prohibited/stifled local manufacturing and trade through a combination of taxes, tariffs, and the Navigation Acts that ensured the big bucks all funneled through British hands...colonials got the table scraps.

Some truth to it, some typical leftist twaddle. Truth somewhere in the middle.

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ORIGINAL: Joe D.

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ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

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ORIGINAL: mark24

The Americas in the 1700's were heavily taxed, ultimately leading to the declaration of independence: False, the tax burden in the British Isles was higher.

It was about the perception of high taxes. Tax levels are relative. It was even more about being treated as a colony and not an equal.

I'm not sure the taxes were as high as they were pervasive: taxes on tea, glass, paper, etc., w/o any representation in England.

Then again, someone had to pay the tab for the French and Indian Wars; I think there were five of them worldwide.

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ORIGINAL: Joe D.

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ORIGINAL: mdiehl

Truth: The Mexican War was started by Mexico in an effort to militarily obtain as fait accompli a favorable outcome in a border dispute entrained by ambiguous language in a treaty establishing the border between the two nations ...

If I'm not mistaken, the Rio Grande was the agreed border, but the ambuguity lay on who had what side of the river.

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ORIGINAL: niceguy2005
I would not disagree with your statement. It could easily be argued that England spent more on the colonies then they collected in taxes. However, like any rationale citizen, the Colonials didn't want to pay more tax than was required. Many of the new taxes, though relatively small, were numerous, giving the perception to the Colonials that the English aristocracy was getting greedy.

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ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

BTW: Dan... did you get to take Emory Thomas' Civil War course at UGA? I was always registering too late to get in, but he let me sit in when I wanted to. I just didn't have the time to do it often enough.

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

3)  Slavery was the spark that ignited the Civil War ...

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

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ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

BTW: Dan... did you get to take Emory Thomas' Civil War course at UGA? I was always registering too late to get in, but he let me sit in when I wanted to. I just didn't have the time to do it often enough.

No, I may have been too young, Bradford. I was from Florida, and knew little about UGA when I arrived in '79. Didn't hear of Emory Thomas until later. But let me tell you about Nancy Jo [Last name omitted so I don't get in trouble one of these days], the coed in my poli-sci and history classes my sophomore year. Everyone, including my history professor, was in love with her, except me, because I was dating another girl. Nancy Jo must have thought I was playing hard to get or something....because she ended up asking ME out. I turned her down and she ended up posing in Playboy later that quarter.

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
4)  Southerns fought for a variety of reasons - primarily to protect the South and for their "rights."  Very few fought specifically to perpetuate slavery.

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ORIGINAL: Termite2

... My ancestor was condemned to death and lost his land and possessions to the British before the revolutionary war; he fled to Pa, where he found refuge. 

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

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ORIGINAL: mdiehl

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How about the lie that I fight within my college classrooms that in the beginning, the North fought the war to end slavery?

In New England, it's taught (correctly) that the secessionist states attempted to secede in order to promote slavery and that the loyal states fought to prevent secession.

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ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

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Civil War scholars generally agree that that the Union fight to "free the slaves" is pretty inaccurate. There seemed to be many reasons why they fought. Maintain the union was certainly the main reason

I would have to agree with with the scholars... if the whole point of the North was to free the slaves, Lincoln would have issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1861... not 1863.

Chez

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ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

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ORIGINAL: niceguy2005
I would not disagree with your statement. It could easily be argued that England spent more on the colonies then they collected in taxes. However, like any rationale citizen, the Colonials didn't want to pay more tax than was required. Many of the new taxes, though relatively small, were numerous, giving the perception to the Colonials that the English aristocracy was getting greedy.

Problem was that for most of their existance the Colonies had paid no direct taxes. Their value to England was in supplying the goods and services the Colonist could not, or weren't allowed to supply themselves. Any tax, even a small one, looks large to those who've never paid one before,

I've often wondered what would have happened if George III had been smart enough to call the Colonist's bluff? Give them representation in Parlement, then out-vote them, and give them the taxes as well. Franklin certainly feared such a policy.

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ORIGINAL: herwin

... the American ancestors tended to live a lot longer and have many more children--the English ancestors tended to be executed for treason.

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

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ORIGINAL: Joe D.

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ORIGINAL: herwin

... the American ancestors tended to live a lot longer and have many more children--the English ancestors tended to be executed for treason.

In other words, your ancestors' longevity was directly proportional to their distance from the Tower of London.

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ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I have taught the Civil War in my classrooms to be made up of several factors:

...

Does all that make sense?  I was typing so fast, I am not sure if it does.  This was my standard 60 minute lecture prior to Fort Sumter abbreviated into 3 paragraphs...

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ORIGINAL: John 3rd

...  Bleeding Kansas, Sumner-Brooks Caning,  Uncle Tom's Cabin, Dred Scott, and John Brown's Raid fixed it so that there could be NO compromise.  Each event led to people choosing sides and then that was it.  Lincoln's Election was simply the spark needed to bring about the inferno.

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

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ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I have taught the Civil War in my classrooms to be made up of several factors:

1.  The 3 Ts:  Taxes, Tariffs, and Transportation were issues that served to divide North from South.  A large portion of the tax burden was being borne by the South--with the Cotton explosion going on--while Tariffs were in place to protect Northern fledgling industries that punnished Southern trade with England and France.  Add to this problem that a lot of the tax and tariff money was then being spent on NORTHERN Railroad construction and you have an economic sense of perscution...

2.  Growing Cultural Divide--the stereotype is that the South changed and there was a cultural disconnect.  Not true.  The South--in all reality--stayed very close to its Colonial roots--at the risk of tying in the portion of this thread--while it was the NORTH that transformed into something new.  The growth of cities, new transportation, massive immigration, and industrialization took that section into an entirely new direction; whereas, the South remained true to its Cash Crops/Slave based economy.

3.  Loss of the Middle--as long as there remained a sizeable number of people who hadn't picked a side within the conflict then compromise was possible.  Figure 1/3 for slavery, 1/3 against, and 1/3 not really sure.  You were able to compromise in 1820, fight the Mexican-American War, achieve compromise in 1850, but then it headed down hill.  The litany of events:  Bleeding Kansas, Sumner-Brooks Caning,  Uncle Tom's Cabin, Dred Scott, and John Brown's Raid fixed it so that there could be NO compromise.  Each event led to people choosing sides and then that was it.  Lincoln's Election was simply the spark needed to bring about the inferno.

Does all that make sense?  I was typing so fast, I am not sure if it does.  This was my standard 60 minute lecture prior to Fort Sumter abbreviated into 3 paragraphs...

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