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- 3/29/2002 6:54:36 PM

RussianSteelDar

Posts: 51
Joined: 3/25/2002
Status: offline

Two man cramped turret, four man crew and lousy ergonomics and LOW experience!

Read a book that stated only 8 rounds were in ready racks - the gunner/loader then had to drop to the floor, pull back rubber matting, scrounge the shell needed, and get back up to the breech....

Imagine this stunt while moving cross-country....

I've not heard of any stabilization for the weapon and Russian optics were considered inferior to German art (as was most of the world from what I gather)

Then add the whopping 3-8 weeks of training the poor bugger probably had...

But keep training your boys: I've seen elite T-34s get 4 shots, once I saw 5.

Don't know about the Infantry support tanks? which ones? Check how many crews...(and how many turrets)

Take a look at the KV tanks: 5 man crews and it shows...

More shots even at lower levels of experience and once elite, up to 5 or 6 shot per turn...bigger turret and larger crew...

Note the KV-2 gets but one or 2 shots at start - I've gotten one up to 3 as an elite unit - in this case, think lugging 50 Kg shells around the turret...

Increasing the experience levels of your force is crucial in Russian Steel - the whole trick for the Russians in 1941 was to survive initial contact with the Wehrmacht and survive long enough to learn the basics of fighting...

Also,

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 61

- 3/29/2002 7:04:32 PM

young turk

Posts: 138
Joined: 2/21/2002
From: istanbul, turkey
Status: offline

Hi.

I am at the third battle, demoninated "River Defense". It isnt entirely clear to me what I am supposed to do (have everybody exit through the retreat hex?) and i dont want to spoil the surprise by experimenting.

Can anybody tell me?

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 62

- 3/29/2002 7:15:22 PM

young turk

Posts: 138
Joined: 2/21/2002
From: istanbul, turkey
Status: offline

seriously now, without being flip . . .

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 63

- 3/29/2002 8:07:35 PM

Larry Holt

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RussianSteelDar
[B]Two man cramped turret, four man crew and lousy ergonomics and LOW experience!
...

Don't know about the Infantry support tanks? which ones? Check how many crews...(and how many turrets)
[/B][/QUOTE]
I understand the limitations of the T-34. What I was wondering is why the T-34 has few shots at low experience when other low experience tanks have many shots. I will have to check the designation of the other tanks tonight.

_____________________________

Never take counsel of your fears.

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 64

- 3/29/2002 10:02:58 PM

young turk

Posts: 138
Joined: 2/21/2002
From: istanbul, turkey
Status: offline

teshekur ederim

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 65

- 3/30/2002 12:52:23 AM

RussianSteelDar

Posts: 51
Joined: 3/25/2002
Status: offline

To Young Turk:

Battle 3 is supposed to involve your core force plus some AUX troops deployed north of a river that is mostly impassable.

There are supposed to be two fords and they should be marked. These represent shallow water areas that units may cross - although your vehicles run the chance of getting flooded out...

There should be a VH on the south side of the river near a road junction, just SE of a multi-hex grouping of trees...

You are to load up everything you can (some AUX trucks are provided) and move everyone across the river...

You will have to fight your way through to reach the fords and also fight a delaying action to keep your pursuers back long enough to get as much across the river as possible...

I'd be happy to discuss this further - post here or email me at: [email]brad.darroch@trw.com[/email]

I'm a little confused by "River Defense" - the Battle title should be Slonim Escape - and "escape" is a deliberate choice.....

If you've reached Battle 3, how do you feel about the first 2? Difficulty about right? Build points about right? Boring?

Thanks,

Brad

Larry Holt:

low rtae-of-fire for T-34 presumably related to size of round (and affected by ammo stowage)....45mm shells probably lots easier to deal with...

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 66

- 3/30/2002 1:42:46 AM

RussianSteelDar

Posts: 51
Joined: 3/25/2002
Status: offline

Penetrator:

The version of Slonim Escape (Russian Steel Battle 3) that young turk is playing does not have the latest Battle 3 version...

It still should have the retreat hex and the 1500 point VP hex south of the river....

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 67

- 3/30/2002 2:12:22 AM

Penetrator

Posts: 268
Joined: 3/11/2002
From: Iceland
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RussianSteelDar
[B]Penetrator:

The version of Slonim Escape (Russian Steel Battle 3) that young turk is playing does not have the latest Battle 3 version...

It still should have the retreat hex and the 1500 point VP hex south of the river.... [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh dear, I'm sorry young turk, I had a different battle in mind. Darroch's description is the correct one.

_____________________________

Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room!

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 68

- 3/30/2002 6:22:43 PM

young turk

Posts: 138
Joined: 2/21/2002
From: istanbul, turkey
Status: offline

brad:

i thought the first two battles were interesting and enjoyable, and the idea for a russian campaign is excellent.

i called it river defense because this is the "mission type" identified in the unit purchase screen.

even though my tanks cannot shoot straight (yet) i got decisive victories on both for my first tries. so, i guess i would say the difficulty is little to easy.

SPOILER

in terms of scenario design, perhaps the german flak should be more spread out on the second battle (german nebelweuffer succommed to russian planes strafing from the NE to SW) and perhaps the germans should approach the SE VL from multiple paths (the bulk of them got flamed repeatedly by a couple of flame tanks sitting statically).

finally:

there is a updated version???? where can i get it???

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 69

- 3/30/2002 7:25:54 PM

RussianSteelDar

Posts: 51
Joined: 3/25/2002
Status: offline

Young turk:

DVs on 1 & 2??!!! Good Work! They may be too easy after all.

The difficulty in doing this is I lose track of versions - I think the points you are getting (support and build) are higher than in our current beta test version...at present we only hand out 250 build points post-battle (with 500 or so every third or fourth battle) and only 200 support points...we found the support points could really warp the fight..

Updated version:

I have battles 1-11 on my hard drive in final form (I have 33 of the first 35 in various stages of testing as well!), this includes rebuilt battles 5 and 6 (needed to rebuild to ensure that crews pop out of damaged tanks) and Asgeir's rebuilt battle 3 (which has no retreat hexes and forces the player to slug it out with the pursuing Germans - hint - defend south of the fords and force them to attack across the river)

I am awaiting beta test results before sending 1-11 off to Fabio for upload to his site as Russian Steel 1.1

I had planned to do this before April 8. If you are comfortable with beta then contact me at [email]brad.darroch@trw.com[/email] and I can send you what I have - it's a big file and I'll need to break it up to satisfy my ISPs constraints.

Let me know but I think you'll have fun with Battle 3 as it is - just treat it as an escape - get away with as much stuff as possible...and there are Germans in those woods...!

In general, all SPWAW players are welcome to our work: battles and campaigns..

...but, in addition to the practical constraints of my ISP, I am uncomfortable releasing products that may contain major flaws - you can see a number of minor flaws in the initial release as it is...and these were pretty well-tested. So we deeply appreciate your patience as we "get the bugs out!"

I am confident that we'll have all 35 battles in their Sunday Best for you all by June 22 - an auspicious date! And our planned interim releases from now until June 22 should keep things interesting...

Cheers,

Brad

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 70

great campaign - 3/30/2002 8:17:03 PM

davidmiller

Posts: 53
Joined: 3/9/2001
From: florissant, mo, usa
Status: offline

I just want to compliment you for an outstanding addition to an outstanding game. I enjoy the Eastern Front most and while I am not a grognard on the subject, I feel that the effort and time you put in on the project is not wasted, but very much appreciated by the SPWAW community. I've made it thru the first 3 battles with discouraging results, but expected it. I always try to do better each battle and try to change the historical results. I must admit that I am at best only a medium type player, but I do enjoy the game immensely. Thank you again for the campaign.:)

_____________________________

rabid lobo

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 71

- 3/31/2002 4:12:52 AM

RussianSteelDar

Posts: 51
Joined: 3/25/2002
Status: offline

David:

Thanks for the positive feedback, it helps keep us going.

Since you are on Battle 3, are there any things related to the scenarios or campaign layout that you'd like to see more - or less of?

More info on the battle? Player's notes on what to expect? More points? Fewer points?

I have been considering something like designer's notes if there's enough interest....

I don't want the campaign to cause difficulties or frustration - there's enough of that with the 1941 Russians!!

The good news is that you'll slowly see your core force starting to hit what they shoot at...

Let us know - there's always room for us to improve...

Brad

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 72

- 4/2/2002 2:20:35 AM

young turk

Posts: 138
Joined: 2/21/2002
From: istanbul, turkey
Status: offline

david:

nah, i am getting 250 build points and 120 support points. i probably just have a knack for predicting what the AI is going to do. so for me, the campaign is a little to easy. i'll try turning on the AI advantage.

ok, i will try battle 3 as a retreat.

thanks for all the good work, and i am really looking forward to future releases of this campaign.

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 73

My Russian Steel is smoking.. - 4/2/2002 4:25:58 AM

wulfir

Posts: 3091
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Sweden
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RussianSteelDar
[B]
DVs on 1 & 2??!!! Good Work! They may be too easy after all.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Uhm�well, I got hammered at Dubno. Going in with far to much self confidence thinking I�d push the Fascist invaders back all the way to Berlin before breakfast, but boy did I get chewed up. Very embarrassing�

A very promising campaign though! Keep up the good work!

_____________________________

Semper in Primis

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 74

- 4/2/2002 10:42:23 AM

Goblin

Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline

Hot campaign guys! Especially with german shells raining down everywhere! We want more, more, more......;)

Goblin

_____________________________

http://www.spwaw.com/phpBB2/index.php

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 75

- 4/2/2002 8:03:41 PM

Unknown_Enemy

Posts: 277
Joined: 9/10/2001
From: France, Paris
Status: offline

Dear comrade Stalin,

I feel I need to appologize for my squads being wipped out by the fascist enemy at Dubmo (me too!). But I would like to point the incredible absence of our glorious aircrafts ! Most of our infantry has not been destroyed by sheer incompetence as wrongly reported, but by Stukas bombing runs.
I would suggest that the political commissars that are currently discussing the hour of my execution should turn to my comrades from the people's airforce we missed so much a few hours ago.
May I [letter interupted at that point]

From commissar Popov Lituatchenko :
"This traitor to the party has been dealed with. May be the new colonel will last longer."

That's what mean by good work !!

Thanks for the campaign guys, it rocks !

_____________________________

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagh'nagl fhtagn.
Yaah ! Yaah ! Cthulhu fhtagn ! Cthulhu fhtagn !

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 76

- 4/2/2002 8:33:47 PM

Larry Holt

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
Status: offline

Battle 2, I am holding the GE off with a tank ambush but my shells are bouncing off their armor with reported armor thickness always in 3 digits (richoet, arm thickness is 495mm)at point blank range. I check my preferences and they are all set to 100. I really think something is wrong so I set GE armor toughness to 30% but I still see 3 digit thicknesses. I look at them again and see that GE toughness is set to 1500 something! I heard about this once before, a long time ago but this is the first that I have seen it myself.

_____________________________

Never take counsel of your fears.

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 77

First two battles - 4/3/2002 1:47:49 AM

Gallo Rojo

Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline

I fought the first two during the weekend.

I get a Draw :I in the first and a Decisive Victory in the second one :D
(hey, Mosh, you did design the second one, didn't you? ... those rocket launcher were a pain in the **** ... I have been blaming on you during all battle long :D ! But at the end of the day they couldn't stop me! :)

Campaign is really fun. My congratulations and thanks to the Campaign Collective team.
I can't wait to play the rest of the campaign.
Dan ... are you there? I guess that this "RussianSteelDar" is you ...
Any way: I have a story board for Operations Uranus and Saturn ... If you guys need it I can send an e-mail to you ... Story board is from a Russian side campaign recreating the encirclement of the VI Army that I like always wanted to design but I never had the tieme.

Last but not least: It seems that in v7.1 T-34m41 compared against PzIII is fairly good again -as historically was ... this is good news after what had happen whit T-34m41 in v7.0.
Cheers to Matrix team

Cheers!

_____________________________

The bayonet is a weapon with a worker on each end

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 78

- 4/3/2002 3:49:50 AM

RussianSteelDar

Posts: 51
Joined: 3/25/2002
Status: offline

Hmmmm....I didn't think Dubno was too easy - I kept getting blasted...perchance Young Turk is an ace player - be warned PBEM opponents...

Larry Holt: new updates to battle 3,5,6 will be out late this week or early next...as for armor in 3-digits (shrug) - it's a feature of the SPWAW engine and we designed these battles on engines ranging from 6.1 through 7.1....if there is an easy way to update to 7.1 without rebuilding the battle I'll be happy to do the grunt work....the new 3,5.6 were tested at 7.1 and it is still hard to kill German tanks with the F-34 and L-11 guns but that is not my area of expertise...I accept it and fall back on my favorite Russian antitank weapon: the veteran SMG squad...

Gallo Rojo: I am Darroch - Dan dropped out awhile back. PLease take a look at the readme file if you have time. In there we mention your storyline which has been turned into 10 battles starting with the assault out of the Serafimovich bridgehead...

35 battles gets us to Rostov - we need more designers and testers before we move out on the next set.

Cheers,

Brad

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 79

- 4/3/2002 10:47:23 AM

Gallo Rojo

Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RussianSteelDar
[B]
Gallo Rojo: I am Darroch - Dan dropped out awhile back. PLease take a look at the readme file if you have time. In there we mention your storyline which has been turned into 10 battles starting with the assault out of the Serafimovich bridgehead...

35 battles gets us to Rostov - we need more designers and testers before we move out on the next set.

Cheers,

Brad [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks Darroch! I will take a look ... I didn't know that you have used it finally ... I'm glad that it have helped
cheers
Gallo

_____________________________

The bayonet is a weapon with a worker on each end

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 80

Battle 5th - 4/5/2002 11:46:01 AM

Gallo Rojo

Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline

I am in 5th battle "Meeting at Orel"
my quetion is: is it fair play if I blow up those bridges with my arty in the first turn?

_____________________________

The bayonet is a weapon with a worker on each end

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 81

- 4/5/2002 12:02:21 PM

Major Destruction

Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline

Of course. But the revised version will not allow this to be so easy. Perhaps you should wait for the revision so that you don't spoil the surprises that this scenario springs on you.

This one is a real ball-buster but if you blow the bridges in turn 1 you will have a relatively easy time of it.

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 82

- 4/5/2002 12:53:50 PM

White Phosphorus

Posts: 16
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline

The campaign is excellent! It does a good job setting the mood of the Eastern front.

IMHO the second battle is too easy. I got a draw on the first one, and a marginal victory on the second one (my own fault). It is way too easy to infiltrate the german positions, and then check mate the game during the last four turns. Well, maybe it is not that it is too easy by itself, it's just that it is nowhere as hard core as the first one.

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 83

- 4/5/2002 8:11:44 PM

RussianSteelDar

Posts: 51
Joined: 3/25/2002
Status: offline

Gallo:

The version of battle 5 you have has two minor flaws but is totally playable:

1) there are too many units on both sides and as a result crews do not appear when vehicles/guns are damaged.

2) GE units appear on the east bank as reinforcements - I just could not get them to reliably cross the bridges...so you can blow the bridges with arty and it won't make much difference...

The version of Battle 6 that you have also has the no-crew problem and tends to be somewhat easy for the SOV.

Major Destruction is working 6 and I am working 5 - I estimate 5 days before we can publish patches to these two battles.

The battles you have are both playable as is.

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 84

- 4/5/2002 8:25:21 PM

RussianSteelDar

Posts: 51
Joined: 3/25/2002
Status: offline

White Phos:

The campaign is excellent! It does a good job setting the mood of the Eastern front.

IMHO the second battle is too easy. I got a draw on the first one, and a marginal victory on the second one (my own fault). It is way too easy to infiltrate the german positions, and then check mate the game during the last four turns. Well, maybe it is not that it is too easy by itself, it's just that it is nowhere as hard core as the first one.

You've highlighted one of the "features" of this homebrew campaign - the range of solutions....

This gives me an excuse to point a few things out:

1. Our storyline was built to have the widest range of difficulty, situation, unit mix, and objectives possible with as many twists, surprises and threats as we could reasonably include

2. We have about a dozen designers and for the first several battles it is a new designer for each

3. Because of 1&2 above, there is a wide range of player experiences with these battles - I actually found #2 to be subtly more difficult than Battle 1 - I'm just an average player though and tend to be too direct and impatient....

If you have some ideas for us to "spice up" Battle 2 I'd love to hear 'em - or better yet, I can send you the battle file and you can create a variant with your own signature - this is homebrew and everyone can contribute

Two reminders:

The 7.1 patch appears to reduce unit costs so you may be able to buy more stuff than originally intended - we'll try and address this in future releases but you will have to manage your levle of difficulty - if you consistently find these too easy, you are a much better player or have benefitted by too many build points - either way, you can voluntarily forego the build and support points or leave part of your force at the map edge to get more challenge...

We'll be making improvements with the next release (due out in 7-9 days)

Also, a core force of greater than 55 units will eventually give you no challenge and will cause your crews not to appear in those battles with large unit density - this bothers some players a lot.
The battles were tested with a core of 50 units or so - more than that will unbalance things a lot.

Carry On! : )

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 85

About Campaign Difficulty - 4/6/2002 3:33:31 AM

Gallo Rojo

Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline

Thanks about the ansewers regarding the briges on 5th battle :)

About campaign difficulty. Here is my record:

FIRST BATTLE: DRAW.
My mayor problem was the Lufwaffe and of course the lack of experience/moral of my core units. In this first battle I did not try to be a hero ... my goal was just to survive. I stabilized the secondary line of defense as intro text suggested and stayed there. I didn't ever dream about go after the Victory Objectives out of this secondary perimeter. I left them to the Germans.
If some one achieved a Decisive Victory there at Dubno ... well he or she has my respect! The battle is really difficult (and really fun)

SECOND BATTLE: DECISIVE VICTORY
I think that this one is the easier of the five I have fought in the campaign ... but is not a picnic! Those German Rocket launcher are a nightmare!
And you have to fight bravely to get to the German Town. I friend of my that is relatively new on SPWAW called me yesterday and told me that he had been totally washed up by the PzGranadiers attack on the road.
If you want to make it harder my suggestion is to move some of the Victory Objectives to the western side of the river ... let see if the Russians can deal with the 37mmAA and HMG that Germans has there.
To make it even harder my suggestion is to send an armored counter attack from the south toward the group of Vics that are in the small village in the last five turns.

THIRD BATTLE: DRAW
This one was really fun.

FOURTH. BATTLE: MINOR VICTORY
Just like in the fist one I tried keep the south road free of Germans and I did it. I never tried to take the northern objectives. The scenario is really fun with all those units that came as reinforcements and have to fight with the Germans in the woods.

My opinion is that the Campaign is pretty hard. But is how it should be. We are Soviets in 1941 ... the Whermach used the Red Army as a scouring pad during this year!

And all the battles are very very very fun. What is the most important thing here (this is a game!)

_____________________________

The bayonet is a weapon with a worker on each end

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 86

About the CORE UNITS - 4/6/2002 3:37:07 AM

Gallo Rojo

Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline

I tell you guys what I have:

ARMOR:

ONE MEDIUM TANKS CO:

1 x T-34m41 Co Leader
1 x T-28 Platoon
2 x T-34m41 Platoon

2 x BT-70M section (four light tanks in total)

3 x BA-6

17 armor units in total

INFANTRY:

1 x RIFLE CO (armed with Tokarev as principal weapon):
1 x Co Leader Sqd
3 x Rifle Plt
3 x 50mm Mortar
2 x 12.7 Dks HMG

4 x Maxim HMG (re assigned among my rifle platoons)

22 infantry units in total

ARTILLERY:
2 x 45mm ATG
2 x 37mm ATG
3 x 82mm Mortar
2 x GAZ-20mm AA

9 artillery units in total

RECON:
3 x Mtcy HMG
3 x Infantry Recon Sqd
2 x Snipers

8 recon units in total

MIX:
I bought 15 medium trucks, 5 utility cars (GAZ Emka) and 4 Komosolets to make my infantry a motor company (I re assigned the trucks and cars to the infantry platoons).

I think that I�m near the limit of 55 units ... any way ...

Do you think that this OOB is OK or is to strong?

I am curious about what does the rest of the players have bough for this campaign. So if some of you like to present his force I think that this can be nice :D

Another think that can be nice to know is about your �up grades policy�
My upgrades until this moment was this:
One rifle plt upgraded to engineers
One of Sqd of the other two rifle platoons changed per one SMG Sqd.
Finally I changed all my Truck that originally were Zis to GAZ AA.

My plan for further up grades is change my T-34m41 to m42 and to m43 and /85 in the following years.

So, what about you guys? :)

_____________________________

The bayonet is a weapon with a worker on each end

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 87

- 4/6/2002 4:12:17 AM

Major Destruction

Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline

My Core:

1 Medium Tank company
10 t-34 m.41

1 Infantry tank platoon
5 t-26 m.40 (upgraded to KV's)

15 armour units in total

1 Rifle Company
13 Rifle Squads
3 PTRD ATR (upgraded as required)
2 12.7mm HMG

1 Recon platoon
3 Recon Patrol

1 Engineer platoon
3 Engineer Squad

24 Infantry units in total

1 Heavy mortar battery
3 120mm mortar

1 AA Section
2 37mm AA m.39 (wish I had more)

1 76.2mm Infantry Gun

6 artillery units in total

45 units grand total

_____________________________

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 88

- 4/6/2002 6:40:23 AM

White Phosphorus

Posts: 16
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline

Heh, these core sizes would help explain a lot.

1 Company of infantry (Mossin) (13sqds)
2 12.7mm DShK
3 50mm mortars

1 Company of Conscripts (they have the same organization as tank riders) (10sqds)

1 Company of medium tanks T-34/41 (10 tanks)

3 50mm mortar platoons (9 sqds)

1 GAZM1 FO

2 Scout team platoons (6 sqds)

1 Bat of "assault guns" (trucks with guns on em) (13 guns) (2 BA-11s)

3 SPAA platoons GAZ-4M-AA (12)

83 Units Total

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 89

- 4/6/2002 9:43:44 AM

RussianSteelDar

Posts: 51
Joined: 3/25/2002
Status: offline

I have bought core several times due to playtesting needs, I have settled on the following as suited to my style:

HQ

2 x KV-1-39

2 x KV-2 (I LOVE, not LIKE, LOVE 152mm!!):D

3 x T-34-40

3 x T-34-40

5 x T-26

4 x 37mm AA (sometimes 12.7 AAMG to be upgraded)

8 x 76mmATG (sometimes start as 45mm)

3 or 4 x 82mm Mortar

1 x FO

8 x SMG

8 x 12.7 DshK

10-15 low cost units for future upgrades

As points allow, I upgrades as follows:

T-26s to T-34s or KV

37mm AA to 85mm (I am finding this is not working out well)

82mm to 120mm

12.7 DshK to various infantry types - I prefer SMG heavy (with molotovs) and a few engineers...

The miscellaneous units become:

Ammo carrier
Cavalry (with molotovs)
Ski SMG Inf
Some more tanks - never enough of those...

So, WHite Phos - your force will struggle initially through these battles - eventually it may get too big and elite to be much fun - and your crews may not show up in the high unit density battles....

But if you're having fun, don't mess with success!!

(in reply to Fabio Prado)

Post #: 90