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My Grandfather's Military history

 
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My Grandfather's Military history - 5/29/2008 4:13:46 PM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		My Grandfather served in the US Marines and Navy during WWII and served in the pacific theater.
He didn't like to talk much about his experiences and suffered a massive stroke at the age of 52.
I was very little and only remember him after his stroke, he lost the ability to speak and was unable to walk.
All I know is that he was a gunner on some of the aircraft and spent time in OZ/New Zealand.
I was curious if some of you folks would know where to start looking for his service records and/or discharge reports.
Thank you.

< Message edited by Gem35 -- 5/29/2008 4:16:50 PM >

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/29/2008 4:32:40 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		http://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records/get-service-records.html

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/29/2008 5:29:48 PM   
tanksone


Posts: 390
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: St Paul, Mn.
Status: offline 		Hi, my grandfather like yours didn't share any of his past. All I knew was that he servered in China as an airplane mechanic. When it first came I out I tried the link that Terminus supplied. I forget the exact wording but roughly they said they could not find his records. I guess sometime in the 50s or 60s there was a big fire at the Pentagon which destroyed alot of the WW2 vets records.





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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/29/2008 7:51:22 PM   
khyberbill


Posts: 1941
Joined: 9/11/2007
From: new milford, ct
Status: offline 		I believe the fire was in St. Louis and destroyed a lot of records. On the other hand, I was looking through some family papers and found my fathers records so they may still be around.

Dad was a DC-3 mechanic in the army air force and was in Adak, Attu and Kodiak. Also it turns out that they first sent him to college in Ohio on track for medical school after he enlisted at 17 for flight school. My grandmothers approval for early enlistment was in the records as well. He had a heart murmur and they refused to send him to flight school. After two years in college he demanded to be sent somewhere where he "could kill japs" So they sent him to the aluetian islands! He never spoke about the war either and got out a corporal. I once asked him why he never got promoted and he told me that he had a problem with authority figures. He went on into the engineering world and had lots of ex-corp of engineers working for him in later life. I know he was pleased that these retired generals and colonels were reporting to a corporal.

A close family friend when I was 10 was a tank captain in Patton's army in Europe and he rarely spoke of the war. The father of another friend of mine was an Aussie who was captured in Singapore. He didn't speak of it at all unless he got drunk and then one found out how much a person can hate a people (Japanese). And frankly my children will tell you that I don't speak of my six years in the navy on submarines at all. I only speak of it to my shipmates.





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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/29/2008 8:03:19 PM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		Talking with my Aunt,(she is the family historian so to speak) she came up with some more information about my Grandfather's service time. It appears he served in the Marine Corps from late 40 to mid 41 and the Navy from late 42 through late 45.
He was discharged from the Marine Corps apparantly because he "lied" about his age.

He then joined the Navy and there is a Navy document she has with a series of numbers starting with a "C" (x-xxx-xxx)
He was a gunner/navigater and I am really wanting to know if he was stationed on one of the Carriers at the time.
Does anyone know what those numbers could be?
Perhaps his service number?

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/30/2008 1:47:52 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
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From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I believe a person's serial number started with a digit back then.  If your grandfather was in the Navy and Marines, the National Archives may still have his records.  The fire in St. Louis in the 70s destroyed mostly Army records.  People who's last names start with letters in the middle of the alphabet had their records destroyed.  My father, who was in the USAAF during the war was among them.

There is another site that has enlistment records, and I found my father in that, but it's not all that much information.

My father tells the funny stories about what happened, and some of the factual information like he went here and there, but he's only talked about how he felt once.  He saw some combat, but nothing heavy.  He was a combat photographer, but most places he went, the Japanese air power had been pretty much nullified, so he saw some flak and an occasional fighter in the distance.  He still carries the scars from his experiences.

Going to war leaves scars on a psyche that last the rest of a person's life.

Bill


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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/30/2008 2:52:09 AM   
Mac67

 

Posts: 496
Joined: 3/7/2006
From: Essex, England
Status: offline
quote:

My father tells the funny stories about what happened, and some of the factual information like he went here and there, but he's only talked about how he felt once.  He saw some combat, but nothing heavy.  He was a combat photographer, but most places he went, the Japanese air power had been pretty much nullified, so he saw some flak and an occasional fighter in the distance.  He still carries the scars from his experiences.

Going to war leaves scars on a psyche that last the rest of a person's life.

Bill



My old man was in the Merchant Navy during WW2. He passed away just before last Xmas. He told me a lot of stuff about his time during the war, but like yours it mainly focused on the light-hearted stuff that he saw or the places he visited.

A few times he did allude to the darker things. I remember him telling me of the dread he felt when his ship was assigned to "Coffin Corner". Or how he saw other sailors kick survivors of stricken U-boats back into the sea. "You couldn't judge them. You couldn't say anything. For all you knew they had lost their entire familes in the Blitz."

I know that he did see combat. One of his duties was to man the Orlican machine guns during air attacks. I asked him once when I was a kid if he had ever shot anyone down, he replied "Son, what with all the tracers going up from the convoy, the smoke from the flak, it was impossible to tell. When you saw one of Jerries planes go down you just thought, thank God, that is one less of the bastards to worry about."

Even the stress of combat had a humorous side for my Dad. He had a great story about how during one air attack, the ships cook got so enraged that he rushed out onto the deck and started throwing potatoes at the attacking planes whilst screaming obscenities.

In his later years he was a bit forgetful, and would often repeat the same war stories to me that I had heard a hundred times before......"Did I ever tell you about the time I went to New York? The time I sailed around the Cape of Good Hope? The time I sailed past the wreck of the Graf Spree?" Any Brits here will know what I mean about "Uncle Albert" syndrome

Now that he is gone I would give my right arm to pick up the phone and hear one of those stories again

A brave and noble generation is departing our world. I believe that it is down to us who knew them to ensure that their courage, sacrifice and self-deprecating humility is never forgotten.








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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/30/2008 3:14:58 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I'm fortunate that my father is still around.  He's 88 and looks younger than John McCain.  He's had people guess he was in his 60s.

I think about his eventual passing though.  I don't envy those who have lost their parents.  I've watched a lot of friends go through that, including my SO, who was very close to her father.

Bill


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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/30/2008 3:31:18 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		Story of old family members my grandfather and bro were german born came to australia in 1911, his bro join the australian army during the early war to hide from goverment eyes,ended up being sent to singapore and was killed by strafing Jap AC. My grandmothers second husband served on the HMS HOOD for 20 years retired 1938 lucky for him. my stephfather is a kiwi served on a suppy ship ? that did runs to Guadalcanal was attacked by the japs damaged and was later scutted i only found about this a few weeks ago he never spoke of the war.

He is in a nursing home very sick and not making much sense it did have a deck gun(big info)had panamanen rego(british ship) i have been looking to find out about what was the name of this ship its something like Roronger I think from what he said.

< Message edited by tigercub -- 5/30/2008 4:02:12 AM >

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/30/2008 4:02:41 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		My father was a sergeant in the Office of Strategic Services.  He landed at Normandy on D-Day Plus Four and worked in a squad that helped locate enemy agents using radio.  He served in the England and France.  Near the end of the war, he was stationed in a chateau near Switzerland when high-ranking German officers came in under a white flag to discuss the surrender of the German army in Italy.  The Germans were dressed in U.S. Army uniforms so that they would remain "incognito."  My father had to give up his dogtags for one of the officers.  Later, my father for some reason was wearing his tunic with sergeant's stripes, but also had lieutenant bars on his collor (or shoulder?) for some reason or other.  He was using a restroom when General Spaatz (8th Army Air Corps) came in, took stock of my father's inconsistent rankings, and blurted out, "What the hell are you?"

My father is 84 and in great shape.  The last time we played golf, he beat me by 40 strokes (both because he's good and because I'm not).




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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/30/2008 5:55:15 AM   
whippleofd

 

Posts: 617
Joined: 12/23/2005
Status: offline 		Mine was a right scanner on a B-29. When he died back in 2001 he willed me all his WW2 stuff. Much stuff, but some of the best, in my mind, are the B-29 flight manual, aircraft recognition book and the scanner gunsight computer manual. All are in used but very good contition.

Also included are his flight logs, official logs and an unofficial crews "bitch-book", which is quite fun to read.

While I would never call him a "hero" ( I think that term is WAY over-used these days ), flying in that plane, esp over enemy teritory, is not something I would ever want to do.

Whipple

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/30/2008 6:14:52 AM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline 		My Dad served in the US Coast Guard during WWII and always seemed ashamed that the hadn't "done his part." He never talked about his service until after I joined the Navy.

He was 23 when the war started. He was married to his first wife then and working as an auto mechanic. He tried to enlist in the Navy in early 1942 but they told him that it would be a few months before they could ship him as they had too many enlistees. He didn't want to wait that long so he tried at the Coast Guard. They told him they could take him right away. They also told him that they went wherever the Navy went so he signed up.

He graduated boot camp and was sent to school to study marine mechanical systems. He was designated a Machinist Mate and assigned to the USCG lightship tender "FIR" based out of Astoria, Oregon. The "FIR' serviced the lightships off the mouth of the Columbia River. He was not a happy camper doing this duty and continously requested a transfer to a combat zone.

Nearly a year later, he got his wish... sort of. He was transferred to a troopship that ferried troops from San Francisco to Fiji and brought the wounded back to the States on the return trip. He said that the ship only once fired its AA guns in anger... at a NZ patrol plane that didn't respond to a challenge.

Needless to say, this was not his idea of fighting a war but I never knew how deeply he felt about not having served in combat until a few years after I joined the Navy. I had heard a Navy joke about the Coast Guard and I couldn't wait to tell him. The joke goes:

"Do you know why Coast Guardsman have to be 6 feet tall to join?"

"That's in case their ship sinks, they can wade to shore!"

I can still remember the thunder in his voice! He blew up like a volcano! I thought it was just a good-natured joke. He thought I was implying that the Coast Guard had never sailed outside US coastal waters in WWII. It wasn't unitl several days later that he told me about his service and why the joke had upset him so much. He also told me that when the war ended, the USCG offered him "Chief" if he would stay in but he declined. He always said he regretted not having stayed in and he always told me not to make the same mistake.

After he died in 2002, I had to sort through his things. I found a small suitcase that I never knew he had. In it was his "crackerjacks" (USCG dress blue enlisted uniform) with the MM1 rate/rank on the sleeve and much of his service records. There was some interesting materials in there including his "log" book with 14 trips from San Francisco to Fiji and back. I wish I would have known they were there before he died as I would have had him buried in his crackerjacks. Instead they hang in my closet.

Chez



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VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
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VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/30/2008 7:06:22 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		tigercub wrote: "He is in a nursing home very sick and not making much sense it did have a deck gun(big info)had panamanen rego(british ship) i have been looking to find out about what was the name of this ship its something like Roronger I think from what he said."

My guess is that he served aboard the Raranga, a Kiwi transport.

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/30/2008 7:12:53 AM   
TOMLABEL


Posts: 5116
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Alabama - ROLL TIDE!!!!!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I don't envy those who have lost their parents.  I've watched a lot of friends go through that, including my SO, who was very close to her father.

Bill



Same here. My SO's father past away last year from Melanoma. Daddy's little girl. It's very tough watching her go through all of that, especially when anniversaries, birthday's come around. Father's Day is next.....

TOMLABEL

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/30/2008 7:18:06 AM   
TOMLABEL


Posts: 5116
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Alabama - ROLL TIDE!!!!!
Status: offline 		My grandfather was a B24 engine mechanic who served with some group in Italy. He didn't talk too much about the war, but I do remember him telling me he lost several green mechs to spinning props because they weren't paying enough attention.

He then worked for Delta in Miami and later retired a happy man.

TOMLABEL

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/30/2008 12:54:54 PM   
captskillet


Posts: 2493
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: Louisiana & the 2007 Nat Champ LSU Fightin' Tigers
Status: offline 		you can get all of his records from that link Term. posted earlier..............got all my Dad's records including his medical stuff from his being WIA in Korea.........."a missile wound (bullet) to the knee".........he didn't elaborate much about his time over there except it was colder than hell and there were plenty of Chicoms to go around..............still got the leg brace he wore for a couple of years after he got back home............if any of you guys ever see this book in a store get it and read it......my dad is in it, Cpl. B.D. Hall......."The forgotten War: Texas Veterans Remember Korea", by Mackey Murdock..................my dad was in the Naval Hospital in Corpus Christi with Mackey after he got stateside.

< Message edited by captskillet -- 5/30/2008 1:23:48 PM >

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/30/2008 3:38:16 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Good thread. 

My grandfather was a Sgt of artillery in the 4th USMC Def Btn, paired to 1st USMC Div from 1941 - 1943.  He participated in the 3 landings, inclucding Guadalcanal. He also served in Korea. 

He was always more humble about everything than he could have been, and tight-lipped about his WW2 experiences.  But on my last visit to him I told him I told him I wanted to record his story.  It cost me a $120 bottle of brandy and hangover, but we spent the night with him talking and me taking notes. 

I'll see about writing something up this weekend.

-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 5/30/2008 3:39:15 PM >

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/30/2008 3:52:09 PM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 614
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Charlottesville, VA, USA
Status: offline 		I'm sure both were well worth it.

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/30/2008 4:15:15 PM   
Javakamp


Posts: 172
Joined: 2/17/2004
From: Lakeland, FL.
Status: offline 		I grew up in St Louis, and I remember that fire at the Records Center. I remember them asking the people who lived and worked around there to be on the lookout for parts of records, and to bring them to the center.


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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/30/2008 4:25:00 PM   
GI Jive


Posts: 171
Joined: 10/30/2005
Status: offline 		Regarding records, you may want to check with the local town clerk's office where your grandfather lived. Many veterans filed copies of their discharge papers with the municipality and these records are usually retained forever. I was able to get a copy of my father's discharge. A buddy of mine was able to do the same for his dad. Veteran's qualified for VHA loans, property tax breaks & other benefits, so the local government often retained a copy. You may also check with the funeral home that conducted the burial if you know who they are. The government provides a grave marker for veterans & the funeral home may have obtained a copy of the discharge papers in order to apply for it. My father served with the 21st Fighter Squadron of the Seventh Air Force. My uncle was the photographer for the 5th Bomb Group of the 13th Air Force. While both died while I was young, I'm lucky to have some mementoes of their service.

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/31/2008 3:55:21 AM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		My Aunt sent me an old photo of my Grandfather and the plane he flew in.
I have no idea what kind it is, can any of you help identify it?






Attachment (1)

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/31/2008 3:57:52 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I think that's an SBD Dauntless. I'll leave it to the experts to determine the version and unit...

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Brad

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/31/2008 4:05:49 AM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		Thank you Brad!
Is there anything else about his clothes that you can tell me about, for instance is that a flak jacket he is wearing?
Are the "headphones" he is wearing or the uniform provide any details?
I was told he was a navigater and gunner.
Thank you all for the information.

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/31/2008 4:46:26 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Does it look like he's wearing dungarees?  That would be enlisted Navy, yes?  Did they wear jeans on missions? (seems odd to me, but it is a posed pic, so the jeans might be irrelevant). And if he was a gunner, that corrobberates that.  I don't think I've ever seen a flak vest up close, but that thing he's wearing is very rigid, and I'd certainly feel a little better wearing one of those things (esp if I was a tail gunner).

If you can match a date and location (maybe by mention in post-card), you might be able to cross the unit to the location/timeframe to connect his squadron.  Got anything like that?

-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 5/31/2008 4:51:44 AM >

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RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/31/2008 4:50:46 AM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		According to my limited information so far he was enlisted in the Marine Corps during late 40-mid 41 and was discharged due to him being underage, although his birth certificate counterdicts this. He then joined the Navy from late 42- late 45.
It's all I know at this point, thanks for your help Feinder.

< Message edited by Gem35 -- 5/31/2008 4:51:27 AM >

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Post #: 25
RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/31/2008 12:29:05 PM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Does it look like he's wearing dungarees?  That would be enlisted Navy, yes?  Did they wear jeans on missions? (seems odd to me, but it is a posed pic, so the jeans might be irrelevant). And if he was a gunner, that corrobberates that.  I don't think I've ever seen a flak vest up close, but that thing he's wearing is very rigid, and I'd certainly feel a little better wearing one of those things (esp if I was a tail gunner).

If you can match a date and location (maybe by mention in post-card), you might be able to cross the unit to the location/timeframe to connect his squadron.  Got anything like that?

-F-


The picture appears posed... that is he was not preparing for or returning from a flight. I'm not sure why I think that but something about the photo just seems to say that.

This man is wearing a Navy leather flight jacket with fur collar and is wearing a life-preserver over it. If you look closely, you can see the inflation toggle hanging below and in the middle of the life-preserver. His pants are dungarees as noted by the square pocket on the front. It also appears that he is carrying his wallet in his left front pocket.

Dungarees are made of a light-weight denim material and have bell-bottoms. They would have been quite cold and drafty in flight and the bell-bottoms could easily snag on something if he were trying to exit in a hurry. Plus they have about as much flame protection as a tee shirt. If he did wear them inflight, I suppose its possible that he is wearing woolen long-johns. All aircrew after mid-43 had flight suits issued to them so wearing dungarees should not have been the first choice.

I think Bradfordkay is correct. The aircraft cockpit framing reminds me of a Dauntless SBD. Plus the heighth at which the fuselage comes up on him is also indicative of a Dauntless.

Chez

_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

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Post #: 26
RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/31/2008 2:34:42 PM   
Grell

 

Posts: 1064
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Well Gem, I sure hope you can find out what your father did! Very interesting stuff.

Regards,

Greg

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Post #: 27
RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/31/2008 3:15:49 PM   
GI Jive


Posts: 171
Joined: 10/30/2005
Status: offline 		The plane in the background seems to have a long upright antenna forward of the cockpit - a distinctive feature of the Dauntless, the SB2U-3 Vindicator, and the SNJ trainer. The photo seems to show the rear gunner's cockpit. The canopy bracing of the Dauntless has more sections overlapped when open as here - http://www.mnstarfire.com/ww2/history/air/USA/SBD.html. The rear cockpit of the SNJ opens differently as here - http://www.avweb.com/newspics/185585_snj_side.jpg. To me, the framing sort of resembles the Vindicator - http://www.voughtaircraft.com/heritage/photo/html/psb2u-1_0.html and here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Convoy_en_route_to_Capetown.jpg and here - http://sb2u_vindicator.tripod.com/2u.color.northisland.ramp.jpg. There seems to be mountains in the background (possibly Hawaii?). The planes seem to be painted blue grey, so this would put them in the late 1941 to 1942 period. (It might also be the three color scheme which would date the photo around 1943.) Enlisted flightcrew often wore dungarees, except in cold climates.

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 28
RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 5/31/2008 6:46:00 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		"The planes seem to be painted blue grey, so this would put them in the late 1941 to 1942 period. (It might also be the three color scheme which would date the photo around 1943.)"

Considering the service record of the man involved, it would have to be the latter: "According to my limited information so far he was enlisted in the Marine Corps during late 40-mid 41 and was discharged due to him being underage, although his birth certificate counterdicts this. He then joined the Navy from late 42- late 45.
It's all I know at this point"

Because his mode of dress suggests USN as opposed to USMC and his time of service in the USN would not place him in an air squadron until after the Vindicators had been removed from front line service I felt that the aircraft is most likely a Dauntless (also the diminutive size of the aircraft led me in this direction). It is possible that it's a Vindicator in a training squadron, I suppose, but my guess is that it's a photo from his time in a combat unit - said photo being staged for his family.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to GI Jive)
Post #: 29
RE: My Grandfather's Military history - 6/1/2008 4:50:51 AM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		Thank you guys again for the information. I appreciate it.

_____________________________

It doesn't make any sense, Admiral. Were we better than the Japanese or just luckier?


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(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 30
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