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Evaporate? Reconstitute?

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Evaporate? Reconstitute? Page: [1]
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Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 3:49:36 AM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: offline 		This forum has become a bit too quiet, so it’s time to stir the pot.

What was Norm thinking when he used the terms “Evaporate” and “Reconstitute”?

When I was learning English “Evaporate” was defined as a chemical process at the molecular level in which liquids gained energy and vented into the atmosphere. “Reconstitute” was defined as a process of reviving dried products (such as powered milk) by the addition of water.

What do these terms (Evaporation and Reconstitution) have to do with the real military vernacular, nothing. What do these terms have to do with the definition of destruction and commissioning of military units, nothing.

Maybe, since Norm was in the Air Force (a pseudo military service); these are terms that describe his Air Force experiences. After all, it’s possible that an air plane suddenly went poof and evaporated . . . it is also possible that an airman poured some water on a dried mushroom and suddenly the mushroom went poof and an aircraft appeared. It’s all possible, and I wish I had some of those mushrooms, but I don’t think it should be possible in TOAW and I don’t think that the TOAW community should be subjected to artificial language. Instead I propose the following terms/words to replace the current lexicon:

Instead of “Evaporate” - Suggested replacements:
Eliminated
Destroyed

Instead of “Reconstituted” – Suggested replacements:
Commissioned
Re-commissioned
Deployed

Well, you get the idea. My beef is that “Evaporate” and “Reconstitute” do not describe the actual happening. In fact, I find these words rather stupid as compared to other words that would describe the destruction of units and the ability of a Force to field replacements. Hopefully Ralph will be able to insert replacement text and this tread can be included in the Wish List.

Look forward to your reply. Please make it as critical as you can possibly . . .

Also, need your suggestion for words “Evaporate” and “Reconstituted”. Words in other than English would be preferred.

Regards, RhinoBones
Post #: 1
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 4:04:15 AM   
desert


Posts: 827
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		Evaporate also means to dissapear. Reconstitute also means to reconstruct or form anew.

Just thought I might point that out.


< Message edited by desert -- 6/1/2008 4:06:19 AM >

_____________________________

"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 2
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 4:04:26 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I agree in principle with with above post.  However, other words would be muchly desire-able.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 6/1/2008 4:05:22 AM >

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 3
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 4:09:53 AM   
Silvanski


Posts: 2506
Joined: 1/23/2005
From: Belgium, residing in TX-USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

Instead of “Evaporate” - Suggested replacements:
Eliminated
Destroyed


I agree, evaporate ... they're not going up in thin air aye... various stuff goes to the inventory... eliminated is already being used in the formation report

In WiR the term "shatters/shattered" is being used

For reconstituted I'd think of "reinstated" , although in war literature I've also seen "resurrected"

_____________________________

The TOAW Redux Dude

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 4
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 4:24:59 AM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		A slow night down south, RB? Or, is it the mushrooms...

As far as evaporated goes, I'm guessing that it is a verb descriptive of how he saw the unit losing all organizational cohesion and going from a "solid" unit to one that is no longer an obstacle in game terms. The men and some of the equipment may very well be "floating about" on the battlefield, but in a nebulous, scattered, dispersed state...like a gas.

Reconstituted fits pretty well within that mental paradigm, as once this evaporated unit has had a chance to make it back to safety, or be reformed in the rear, its constituent parts coalesce, and reconstitute into a viable unit.

In my opinion, making the terms changeable by the user is a silly request. Not only in terms of wasted coding time, but in terms of defining and describing the action within the manual and documents. The terms may seem a bit 'off' in military parlance, but they are familiar with the users, fairly descriptive, and not in any particular need of 'fixin'. But hey, it's a slow night, and you see, there was this thickening layer forming at the top of the pot...

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 5
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 4:55:29 AM   
DeadInThrench

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: NE Pennsylvania, USA
Status: offline 		Gee wiz.... when it comes to stiring up the pot.... one thing I have always been good at... though I should say.... sometimes ticks people off <g>.

Anyways....... yeah, evaparated seemed strange to me at first but.... eliminated... is not really appropriate because some elements of the unit are still floating around.. and this same argument holds for 'destroyed'.

In agreement with what was posted, I prefer the WiR term.... shattered... which means that, although there are still elements of the unit floating around, it has completely lost all fighting ability.

In the case where a unit has been... evaparated... with no means of retreat... then the term 'annilated' would seem most appropriate.

Oh.... you can always edit the words yourself.... just bring up the exe file in a hex editior and change the words to whatever you like.

DiT

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 6
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 4:56:48 AM   
Silvanski


Posts: 2506
Joined: 1/23/2005
From: Belgium, residing in TX-USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

A slow night down south, RB? Or, is it the mushrooms...

... "floating about" on the battlefield, but in a nebulous, scattered, dispersed state


I can see the connection with the mushrooms


_____________________________

The TOAW Redux Dude

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 7
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 5:16:38 AM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: desert

Evaporate also means to dissapear. Reconstitute also means to reconstruct or form anew.


Agree, but do military units actually "disappear" or "reconstruct"? Instead of disappear or reconstruct, can you give me a verb or noun that really describes the reality?

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to desert)
Post #: 8
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 5:33:21 AM   
desert


Posts: 827
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		Disintegrate and coalesce/consolidate?

This is all just semantics.

_____________________________

"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 9
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 5:57:51 AM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

A slow night down south, RB? Or, is it the mushrooms...


I do like mushrooms, however, in Sonoma I did go to Gloria Ferrer and bought a case of 2003 Pinot Noir from the Jose S. Ferrer selection. This wine is not for casual internet correspondence . . . but will be savored with the primo mushroom at the appropriate time.

quote:

In my opinion, making the terms changeable by the user is a silly request.

This sounds like “Management” speak. Anyone who has read 1984 knows exactly where you are coming from. Too much work needed to correct a defect.

quote:

Not only in terms of wasted coding time . . .


This is another Management type response, a sort of head in the sand approach. Much easier to deflect than to correct.

Regards, RhinoBones

PS – I don’t do the little face things . . . so please keep this as a light hearted jab at the TOAW establishment.

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 10
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 6:35:21 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		I vote for 'evaporate' and 'reconstitute'. They may mean other things in other applications, but seem suitable to me for units that loose cohesion and disolve, take such casualties as to no longer be able to function as a unit, etc., or units that are rallied or reformed and committed to battle again.

But if I had to give alternatives I would vote for 'spewed' and 'regurgitated'. Maybe DiT can modify the .exe and post a screenshot of what a spewed and regurgitated unit would look like.

Maybe the next patch can include some mushrooms. That way we can all see what we like, including Hq's with XXXX's stretching across the universe.

Cheers!

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 11
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 7:37:07 AM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones


quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
In my opinion, making the terms changeable by the user is a silly request.

This sounds like “Management” speak. Anyone who has read 1984 knows exactly where you are coming from. Too much work needed to correct a defect.

A few days in Room 101, Winston, and you'll come to understand that 2+2=5, but only when The Party says it does.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

PS – I don’t do the little face things . . . so please keep this as a light hearted jab at the TOAW establishment.


No worries. Just keep in mind that you don't get to have all the fun. I can be ****ly and poke back...


(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 12
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 7:49:50 AM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
No worries. Just keep in mind that you don't get to have all the fun. I can be ****ly and poke back...




All good answers and replys.

Do you want to play 1937 Revisionist War?

Regards, RhinoBonrs

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 13
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 8:41:27 AM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones


quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
No worries. Just keep in mind that you don't get to have all the fun. I can be ****ly and poke back...




All good answers and replys.

Do you want to play 1937 Revisionist War?

Regards, RhinoBonrs

I've got more on my plate these days than I'm able to effectively handle, but thanks for the offer! Perhaps, when things aren't so busy in my life, we can try one of your smaller scenarios, instead?

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 14
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 9:27:03 AM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: offline 		Roger that.

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 15
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/1/2008 7:46:57 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
But if I had to give alternatives I would vote for 'spewed' and 'regurgitated'.




That works for me!

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Post #: 16
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/7/2008 7:58:25 AM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
I've got more on my plate these days than I'm able to effectively handle, but thanks for the offer! Perhaps, when things aren't so busy in my life, we can try one of your smaller scenarios, instead?



I recommend "Cheese Wars". 10 Turns. Simple concept but a puzzle to play.

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 17
RE: Evaporate? Reconstitute? - 6/13/2008 7:28:20 PM   
orabera


Posts: 74
Joined: 5/31/2002
From: Monument, CO
Status: offline 		No real opinion regarding evaporate.

US Army FM 100-9 Reconstitution covers all activities from reorganization to regeneration of combat/combat support units.

I've always liked Regeneration as a term for the military actions it covers in TAOW.




_____________________________

"As god as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 18
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