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I don't get it... - 6/16/2008 11:57:09 PM

herwin

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I pulled some divisions out of contact to give them a rest. Their morale is going down and their fatigue is increasing. I don't get it...

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/16/2008 11:59:01 PM

goodboyladdie

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Where are they? If they are in a malaria zone and are not well supplied it could explain it.

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 12:13:31 AM

herwin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

Where are they? If they are in a malaria zone and are not well supplied it could explain it.

Lucena, but they have plenty of supply and lots of support.

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 12:42:10 AM

niceguy2005

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quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

I pulled some divisions out of contact to give them a rest. Their morale is going down and their fatigue is increasing. I don't get it...

You put a bunch of Marines on latrine duty didn't you.

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 9:20:05 AM

hvymtl13

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I've seen that too. I attributed it in alot of cases to them being on a base with a different parent command. SWPAC unit in a CincPac base etc. Sometimes it's a bad leader, or malaria like GBL said. Or heavy losses to thier pals in the unit. Range to the Overall HQ sometimes too. Different things act weird on morale. Hard to tell what it might be.

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 1:14:10 PM

herwin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hvymtl13

I've seen that too. I attributed it in alot of cases to them being on a base with a different parent command. SWPAC unit in a CincPac base etc. Sometimes it's a bad leader, or malaria like GBL said. Or heavy losses to thier pals in the unit. Range to the Overall HQ sometimes too. Different things act weird on morale. Hard to tell what it might be.

They've got a co-located corps headquarters with a good leader, and the base belongs to the same parent command. The area HQ is in Baguio. Three of thirteen units experienced decreases in morale; none increased. Average fatigue increase was 0.7 over the 13 units. WTFO?

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 1:58:22 PM

Coach Z

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Sounds like my Betty units in my game vs Floyd they dont strike for a week, their morale decreased drastically ( and now probably cant make any rolls); so I pull them off the "frontlines" back to a base with 30k+ supply and it takes over a week for their morale to go from the 20's to the 50's!
I mean it wasn't like they were so bust to begin with!
Sometimes I think the game was designed to mess with our brains!

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Post #: 7

RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 2:19:59 PM

rtrapasso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: hvymtl13

I've seen that too. I attributed it in alot of cases to them being on a base with a different parent command. SWPAC unit in a CincPac base etc. Sometimes it's a bad leader, or malaria like GBL said. Or heavy losses to thier pals in the unit. Range to the Overall HQ sometimes too. Different things act weird on morale. Hard to tell what it might be.

They've got a co-located corps headquarters with a good leader, and the base belongs to the same parent command. The area HQ is in Baguio. Three of thirteen units experienced decreases in morale; none increased. Average fatigue increase was 0.7 over the 13 units. WTFO?

What is the combined size of the base (AF+Port)?

If it 5 or below, you will suffer... i think you need to get up to around 8 to get things to the point where morale won't drop and disruptions don't go up... usually 20,000+ supply is also necessary (this in malarial zones.)

Also, as discovered recently - the current version of the game actually DECREASES fatigue and disruption (and this effects morale) when the unit is bombarding... prior versions of the game didn't do this.

So, if a unit had been in combat and moves away (and thus stops bombarding) in a malarial zone - i'd guess this could start making morale drop.

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 2:37:25 PM

Nemo121

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Does this decrease in fatigue and morale also effect units which are on the receiving end of those bombardments?

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 2:46:07 PM

rtrapasso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Does this decrease in fatigue and morale also effect units which are on the receiving end of those bombardments?

No...

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Post #: 10

RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 3:54:50 PM

John Lansford

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My Americal Division was in the Shortlands and I noticed it had a Morale of 10, so I transported it back to Luganville, where it's Morale went down to 1. Luganville has the South Pacific HQ, is a large port/airbase, and has 100's of thousands of supply points, although it is in a malaria zone.

Perhaps I should send them to Australia or Noumea or Fiji for some R&R...

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Post #: 11

RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 3:58:43 PM

rtrapasso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

My Americal Division was in the Shortlands and I noticed it had a Morale of 10, so I transported it back to Luganville, where it's Morale went down to 1. Luganville has the South Pacific HQ, is a large port/airbase, and has 100's of thousands of supply points, although it is in a malaria zone.

Perhaps I should send them to Australia or Noumea or Fiji for some R&R...

Yeah - that's what i'd do... a unit with 1 morale is pretty worthless except for garrison duty... how big was Noumea when you put the Americal troops in?

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Post #: 12

RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 4:06:51 PM

herwin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: hvymtl13

I've seen that too. I attributed it in alot of cases to them being on a base with a different parent command. SWPAC unit in a CincPac base etc. Sometimes it's a bad leader, or malaria like GBL said. Or heavy losses to thier pals in the unit. Range to the Overall HQ sometimes too. Different things act weird on morale. Hard to tell what it might be.

They've got a co-located corps headquarters with a good leader, and the base belongs to the same parent command. The area HQ is in Baguio. Three of thirteen units experienced decreases in morale; none increased. Average fatigue increase was 0.7 over the 13 units. WTFO?

What is the combined size of the base (AF+Port)?

If it 5 or below, you will suffer... i think you need to get up to around 8 to get things to the point where morale won't drop and disruptions don't go up... usually 20,000+ supply is also necessary (this in malarial zones.)

Also, as discovered recently - the current version of the game actually DECREASES fatigue and disruption (and this effects morale) when the unit is bombarding... prior versions of the game didn't do this.

So, if a unit had been in combat and moves away (and thus stops bombarding) in a malarial zone - i'd guess this could start making morale drop.

Doesn't make sense that being out of combat in a malarial zone is worse than being in offensive combat in the adjacent hex (which happens to be non-malarial due to the base development). Somehow I wouldn't expect the mere presence of development on the other side of the front lines to express itself that way.

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 4:12:36 PM

rtrapasso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: hvymtl13

I've seen that too. I attributed it in alot of cases to them being on a base with a different parent command. SWPAC unit in a CincPac base etc. Sometimes it's a bad leader, or malaria like GBL said. Or heavy losses to thier pals in the unit. Range to the Overall HQ sometimes too. Different things act weird on morale. Hard to tell what it might be.

They've got a co-located corps headquarters with a good leader, and the base belongs to the same parent command. The area HQ is in Baguio. Three of thirteen units experienced decreases in morale; none increased. Average fatigue increase was 0.7 over the 13 units. WTFO?

What is the combined size of the base (AF+Port)?

If it 5 or below, you will suffer... i think you need to get up to around 8 to get things to the point where morale won't drop and disruptions don't go up... usually 20,000+ supply is also necessary (this in malarial zones.)

Also, as discovered recently - the current version of the game actually DECREASES fatigue and disruption (and this effects morale) when the unit is bombarding... prior versions of the game didn't do this.

So, if a unit had been in combat and moves away (and thus stops bombarding) in a malarial zone - i'd guess this could start making morale drop.

Doesn't make sense that being out of combat in a malarial zone is worse than being in offensive combat in the adjacent hex (which happens to be non-malarial due to the base development). Somehow I wouldn't expect the mere presence of development on the other side of the front lines to express itself that way.

Hmmm... if the adjacent hex was non-malarial, i think this could explain it... most of the casualties in places like Guadalcanal were from malaria and jungle diseases, which pretty much wiped out the 1st Marine Division, leading to its replacement by an Army division later in the campaign.

iirc, something like 80% of the 1st Marines were seriously sick by the time they were replaced.

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Post #: 14

RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 4:35:38 PM

Uamaga

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
What is the combined size of the base (AF+Port)?
If it 5 or below, you will suffer... i think you need to get up to around 8 to get things to the point where morale won't drop and disruptions don't go up... usually 20,000+ supply is also necessary (this in malarial zones.)

Unfortunately it does not work that way. Instead of sum of actual AF and Port sizes it uses sum of corresponding SBS values which means that "malaria status" of a base is fixed and can not be changed in game (besides of it there is a exclusion list based on location's index/slot). I guess it is a mistake and hope it will be changed in AE.

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 4:45:51 PM

rtrapasso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Uamaga

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
What is the combined size of the base (AF+Port)?
If it 5 or below, you will suffer... i think you need to get up to around 8 to get things to the point where morale won't drop and disruptions don't go up... usually 20,000+ supply is also necessary (this in malarial zones.)

Unfortunately it does not work that way. Instead of sum of actual AF and Port sizes it uses sum of corresponding SBS values which means that "malaria status" of a base is fixed and can not be changed in game (besides of it there is a exclusion list based on location's index/slot). I guess it is a mistake and hope it will be changed in AE.

That's the Rulebook, iirc - tests have shown it doesn't work that way, and that building up bases will decrease malarial losses, although not totally eliminate them.*

Of course, these tests were conducted on earlier versions of the game, and that doesn't necessarily mean they are still accurate... (witness the new tests on bombardments.)

*EDIT: iirc, if you get the PORT+AF value up to 8, the losses are negligible.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 6/17/2008 5:06:29 PM >

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 5:11:23 PM

Uamaga

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Yes, that's why I'm guessing it is mistake or misunderstanding between programmer and designer...
I was talking about 1.8.06 but wouldn't be surprised if it was the same in previous versions.

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 5:18:55 PM

rtrapasso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Uamaga

Yes, that's why I'm guessing it is mistake or misunderstanding between programmer and designer...
I was talking about 1.8.06 but wouldn't be surprised if it was the same in previous versions.

i've never seen the test run for 1.806...

Stuff in the rulebook was written about 4 years ago (game was released in July 2004) - lots and lots has changed since then, and i don't believe it (the rulebook) was accurate when the game was released.

Folks should read the rulebook - about 60% accurate, but take everything with a pinch (or maybe a kilo) of salt!

Part of the problem is that the book was written for AI games, and PBEM games do NOT have the same rules (alas).

Also, the game has been extensively modified since it came out.

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Post #: 18

RE: I don't get it... - 6/17/2008 5:45:05 PM

John Lansford

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Noumea is maxed out both port and airbase; so is Luganville. This is in late 1943, and the Americal has been in Luganville for several weeks now. Still their morale is 1, so apparently that malaria problem is still there even though Luganville should have eliminated that by now.

I've sent some smaller units to Australia and Noumea, but not any of the infantry divisions. So far only the Americal has a terrible morale, but I've got some in the 20's. Looks like I need to rustle up a lot of AK's and send them down to the South Pacific, and warn the natives in Fiji, Noumea and Australia that the soldiers are coming...

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/18/2008 1:59:14 AM

Gem35

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Change their leader perhaps...
I'm not sure what is more fun, playing WitP or trying to figure out what the heck makes it tick at times.

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/18/2008 2:08:43 AM

rtrapasso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

Change their leader perhaps...
I'm not sure what is more fun, playing WitP or trying to figure out what the heck makes it tick at times.

Yes, someone with high inspiration will do wonders sometimes...

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Post #: 21

RE: I don't get it... - 6/18/2008 2:21:00 AM

engineer

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I haven't see morale drops as bad as the Americal, but routinely air units will continue to drop for several days after standing down when a series of missions have given them casualties and put them on a trend of reduced morale.� Also, I've seen the air units�have their morale plummet when they trade in old planes for new equipment.� In late 1943, might the Americal be undergoing an ongoing squad upgrade and getting a similar morale hit as the air units have?� At least it's a testable hypothesis since by turning off replacements you should be able to get morale back up if that is the problem.

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/18/2008 1:42:09 PM

hvymtl13

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

Change their leader perhaps...
I'm not sure what is more fun, playing WitP or trying to figure out what the heck makes it tick at times.

LOL Very true.

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/18/2008 7:48:56 PM

Grotius

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Herwin, what's the size of the base in question? As others have said, I expect fatigue to increase in malarial zones unless I'm at a very large base, and even then I prefer to rest troops in non-malarial zones.

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RE: I don't get it... - 6/18/2008 8:02:40 PM

herwin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Herwin, what's the size of the base in question? As others have said, I expect fatigue to increase in malarial zones unless I'm at a very large base, and even then I prefer to rest troops in non-malarial zones.

It's Lucena. I'm now planning to move to Manila and from there to Clark to get out of the malaria.

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