CHS - is it fact or fiction?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> CHS - is it fact or fiction?

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CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/24/2008 10:50:56 PM

jerrylt2008

Posts: 56
Joined: 5/13/2008
Status: offline

All,

I know I am a newbie at this game. BTW I love this game and cannot hardly stop playing. Cudo's to the developers.

Now my B***h with the mod CHS. I am in a PBEM game as the allies playing scen 155 using the Andrew extended map and patched to 1.806.

I know my opponent will probably read this but oh well. IAs I agonize through the early days of the war in Dec 1941 and get hammered everywhere I look. It is getting extremely fustrating to the point of playing stock from now on. It seems my planes cannot hit anything at all. I mean a hit rate of less than 1%. This is ludicrous. I know I cannot hit everything that we aim at but an occasional 5% or 10% woould be nice. Also, my ships in surface combat seem like they are bling as bats. I know that CHS was remastered to cut some of the edge to the Japanese side, but dang this is crazy.

Now, before I get all the people out there telling me that's how it was, I understand that at the beginning of the war we pretty much got our buts kicked, but not like this. I have to take exception with this. There were some very capable crews that could actually fight back. This seems to me that everyone blames it on the "dice roll" but even if that were true, odds would say that at some point they would have to go my way. I have lost the die roll on every action so far. I know that playing against a human instead of the AI is different, but I would have to win some. The general laws of statistics tell me this. I am to the point of stopping my PBEM game and going back to stock.

I can send a force of 40 or 50 bombers against a target and get no hits. This could happen sometimes but not everytime. I know that WWII aircraft were notoriously inaccurate in the 30's and 40's but this is just not the case here.

_____________________________

"One tin soldier rides away........."

Post #: 1

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/24/2008 11:08:47 PM

cantona2

Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline

its all about the dice rolls. In most of my games Dutch B-10's couldnt hit the proverbial barn door but ask Herbiesan what they are doing in my CHS game vs him. Try different altitude settings but be prepared to get shredded by flak if you fly too low.

_____________________________

1966 was a great year for English Football...Eric was born

(in reply to jerrylt2008)

Post #: 2

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/24/2008 11:35:10 PM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

I have played both CHS and Stock. Over-all, I think CHS plays better (as much because of the map as the OB). While I think CHS is "generally" better, there certainly remain several warts in CHS. Low starting exp of Allied squadrons being only one of the things that will torque you off as (or if) you play longer into the campaign.

Stock and CHS should really be treated as two very different scenarios. They have different OBs and a different map.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me

(in reply to cantona2)

Post #: 3

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/24/2008 11:51:20 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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CHS pretty much reflects the really poor preparations that the Allies had made for the Pacific war...

We are playing a 3x3 CHS scenario, and by April the Allies are starting to score heavily with their (predominantly) 1 and 2-engined bombers...

(in reply to Feinder)

Post #: 4

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 12:54:04 AM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
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Any formation which has 8 or over assigned to naval attack should be set at 10% (some go as far as 20%). For some reason this will help you get more actual contacts and thus successful attacks. You have few recon planes and those have very limited range. Use them to increase the DL (detection level) of a base before you attack. If you attack blind, you can expect poor results.

As the Allies, many of your squadrons have experience less than 60. Until you get above this magic number, the success rate of your attacks really sucks.

If your morale gets below 50, they will turn back quickly when they run into fighters.

It is really a balancing act early as the Allies as you need to get both experience up along with morale, but you cannot do both at the same time.

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RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 1:44:39 AM

TommyG

Posts: 273
Joined: 9/25/2004
From: Irvine Ca
Status: offline

If you play a Japanese player who knows what he is doing you will be virtually out of aircraft before you get a squadron that can fight or planes that they can fight in. When you add the various multipliers for Hqs, experience , moral and superior numbers and compare that to crap leaders, and low experieced pilots you get, you will be wiped out over every City you try to contest until the middle of 43. I believe it is the changes to endurance (especially the A6M) that give the Japs such an edge in CHS. But, those much more savy than me say it is the compound effect of multiple hits from each plane that does it; i.e., superior numbers is an overwhelming CHS advantage. For me, I just cry, kick things, and wait for AE.

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 6

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 3:11:49 AM

bbbf

Posts: 493
Joined: 7/16/2000
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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Sorry, but I just say you are being a sooky big girls blouse.

Everything the Jap player throws at you now is but a poofteenth of what you will lay on him come mid-43.

You think that being an Allied player in 42 is heartbreaking, try playing in 44 as Japan.

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Robert Lee

(in reply to TommyG)

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RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 3:23:26 AM

Tophat1815

Posts: 1824
Joined: 1/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bbbf

Sorry, but I just say you are being a sooky big girls blouse.

Everything the Jap player throws at you now is but a poofteenth of what you will lay on him come mid-43.

You think that being an Allied player in 42 is heartbreaking, try playing in 44 as Japan.

DAMN STRAIGHT!

(in reply to bbbf)

Post #: 8

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 5:46:16 AM

Feltan

Posts: 1160
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bbbf

...sooky big girls blouse.

Sorry, separated by a common language here -- can anyone translate this into American English?

Thanks!

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to bbbf)

Post #: 9

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 6:12:43 AM

Tophat1815

Posts: 1824
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feltan

quote:

ORIGINAL: bbbf

...sooky big girls blouse.

Sorry, separated by a common language here -- can anyone translate this into American English?

Thanks!

Regards,
Feltan

Hmmmn..........hard but I think Whiny female dog is a close approximation.

(High Sarcasm On)........Poor Allies being mistreated by the nasty nipponese..........Until the Allies NUKE whats left of the Jap carcass in 45'!(Its Good to be the KING!)

< Message edited by Tophat1812 -- 6/25/2008 6:13:59 AM >

(in reply to Feltan)

Post #: 10

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 6:45:06 AM

thegreatwent

Posts: 3011
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: bbbf

Sorry, but I just say you are being a sooky big girls blouse.

Everything the Jap player throws at you now is but a poofteenth of what you will lay on him come mid-43.

You think that being an Allied player in 42 is heartbreaking, try playing in 44 as Japan.

DAMN STRAIGHT!

Can I get an Amen!

< Message edited by thegreatwent -- 6/25/2008 6:46:00 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 11

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 7:54:27 AM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

quote:

Sorry, but I just say you are being a sooky big girls blouse.
Everything the Jap player throws at you now is but a poofteenth of what you will lay on him come mid-43.
You think that being an Allied player in 42 is heartbreaking, try playing in 44 as Japan.

DAMN STRAIGHT!

Can I get an Amen!

Bah. You started it.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me

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Post #: 12

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 8:21:13 AM

bradfordkay

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

If you want a relatively even game, then stock is the way to go. If you want a more historical feel to your game, then the CHS is the way to go (specifically, I prefer the "experimental" version of CHS - scenarios 159-160).

I am finding that there is a big mistake in CHS, and that is the fact that the allied replacement pilots do not increase in experience level as the years go by. It is certainly making my life as an allied commender fighting against a very good japanese opponent quite difficult - but I am learning a lot and expect to make him pay as the war progresses. I probably won't win this game, but I'll be better prepared for our AE matchup...

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Feinder)

Post #: 13

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 9:55:44 AM

1275psi

Posts: 7979
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline

Ill just back up cantona - its jan 42 -and his martins have kiled more AP's and AKs than I lost in the entire year of 42 against one opponent -so iether

1/ he bloody good
2/ he bloody lucky!

herbiesan

(in reply to bradfordkay)

Post #: 14

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 10:27:52 AM

TheElf

Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline

Jerrylt2008,

CHS is an OoB, Map, and Art mode. There were no code changes. Minor device tweaks are the extent of the difference in the guts. You are still playing with the stock engine. I suggest you look at your doctrine, the manual, and read heavily on these forums to find innovative game techniques to maximizing the potential of the Allies.

You may be inducing subpar performance and not even know it.

One thing I've learned as a player and now a developer is that no amount of forethought in coding, anticipation of ludicrous human play, or flat out explanation obviates the human condition.

Simply, stupid is as stupid does. I'm not saying you are stupid, just look hard at what you are doing and give it a stink check. And when you do, I would venture to say that unless you are a PhD in military history with an emphasis in WWII, you likely don't know what you don't know. If you know what I mean.

_____________________________

IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES

(in reply to jerrylt2008)

Post #: 15

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 10:35:09 AM

goodboyladdie

Posts: 3469
Joined: 11/18/2005
From: Rendlesham, Suffolk
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jerrylt2008

All,

I know I am a newbie at this game. BTW I love this game and cannot hardly stop playing. Cudo's to the developers.

Now my B***h with the mod CHS. I am in a PBEM game as the allies playing scen 155 using the Andrew extended map and patched to 1.806.

I know my opponent will probably read this but oh well. IAs I agonize through the early days of the war in Dec 1941 and get hammered everywhere I look. It is getting extremely fustrating to the point of playing stock from now on. It seems my planes cannot hit anything at all. I mean a hit rate of less than 1%. This is ludicrous. I know I cannot hit everything that we aim at but an occasional 5% or 10% woould be nice. Also, my ships in surface combat seem like they are bling as bats. I know that CHS was remastered to cut some of the edge to the Japanese side, but dang this is crazy.

Now, before I get all the people out there telling me that's how it was, I understand that at the beginning of the war we pretty much got our buts kicked, but not like this. I have to take exception with this. There were some very capable crews that could actually fight back. This seems to me that everyone blames it on the "dice roll" but even if that were true, odds would say that at some point they would have to go my way. I have lost the die roll on every action so far. I know that playing against a human instead of the AI is different, but I would have to win some. The general laws of statistics tell me this. I am to the point of stopping my PBEM game and going back to stock.

I can send a force of 40 or 50 bombers against a target and get no hits. This could happen sometimes but not everytime. I know that WWII aircraft were notoriously inaccurate in the 30's and 40's but this is just not the case here.

Bomb from 6000ft, think about what you are doing and give your pliots time to get over 60 exp. That's when they start hitting more regularly. I love CHS, btw. The JFBs are right, by 1943 (and a lot sooner if you can punish your opponents mistakes) the boot will be on the other foot... Your oppo may want you to keep your 4Es higher, as they are hard to knock down and score a lot of hits from that height. Do it, as it's supposed to be fun for both sides.

_____________________________

Art by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to jerrylt2008)

Post #: 16

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 4:47:01 PM

jerrylt2008

Posts: 56
Joined: 5/13/2008
Status: offline

Hey I am not whining here, I am only stating what every player has experienced. If you have not experienced what I am saying, then you haven't playeds. I know that by 44 the allies were sinking everything in sight and taking the war to the japs. I am just saying the the so called dice rolls seem to be a little lopsided. And yes I know there are modifiers to every dice roll like exp, morale, altitude, weather, etc. These all add up to make it where you hit or dont. But in a recent Surface engagement, the enemy scored over 150 hits while I scored 10. Now I know there are different qualities of crews but they could all fire their weapons to some degree of expertise. I also accept the fact the fact that the japs had trained alot of crews extensively, mainly the PH crews for an extended period of time before the war. I was just trying to say that the mechanism for determining hits and misses by air or surface need to be tweaked a little. Yes the japs were considered aces for the first year but they were not super man. They can be beat and can be sunk, just a matter of determining an accurate way to reflect this. I will still continue to play, just extremely frustrating when you set up an ambush and you do not score at all.

_____________________________

"One tin soldier rides away........."

(in reply to goodboyladdie)

Post #: 17

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 5:26:22 PM

goodboyladdie

Posts: 3469
Joined: 11/18/2005
From: Rendlesham, Suffolk
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jerrylt2008

Hey I am not whining here, I am only stating what every player has experienced. If you have not experienced what I am saying, then you haven't playeds. I know that by 44 the allies were sinking everything in sight and taking the war to the japs. I am just saying the the so called dice rolls seem to be a little lopsided. And yes I know there are modifiers to every dice roll like exp, morale, altitude, weather, etc. These all add up to make it where you hit or dont. But in a recent Surface engagement, the enemy scored over 150 hits while I scored 10. Now I know there are different qualities of crews but they could all fire their weapons to some degree of expertise. I also accept the fact the fact that the japs had trained alot of crews extensively, mainly the PH crews for an extended period of time before the war. I was just trying to say that the mechanism for determining hits and misses by air or surface need to be tweaked a little. Yes the japs were considered aces for the first year but they were not super man. They can be beat and can be sunk, just a matter of determining an accurate way to reflect this. I will still continue to play, just extremely frustrating when you set up an ambush and you do not score at all.

I hear you, my friend and have been there. It does get better. Radar and crew improvements make a difference later, but only the Brits/Aussies/Kiwis have a chance against the Japs at night in the beginning. Boise and her sisters do well due to their immense firepower, but the initial US 8 inch Cruisers tend to suck. Against a human opponent with a similar style, I quite enjoy navigating the early period... (You have to do it enough!)

_____________________________

Art by the amazing Dixie

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Post #: 18

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 5:56:33 PM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

That bug with Allied pilots not gaining experience is -VERY- annoying.

I allow my opponent to "train" units on an empty base (certainly without knowing this was an issue).� I don't regret allowing him to "train". But having discovered this issue myself (the hard way) it also means I really need to secure a base to "train" my own pilots on.� Even in P-38s, pilots with 50exp don't fair well vs. Toni's with 70ish exp pilots.

-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 6/25/2008 5:58:04 PM >

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RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 8:09:35 PM

Przemcio231

Posts: 1901
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: Warsaw,Poland,EU:)
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Well im playing Allies in the CHS... its late April 1942...

Enterprise is on the bottom of the ocean but 4 jap light CV's joind here there...

I lost number of BB's but no matter i sunk one japanese and i will be getting more BB's soon
I invaded Tarawa and it looks like im staying there... PM is holding so is Manila and im on verge of counter attacking in Burma soon.
RAF and USAAF rule the skies over Burma and China

Remeber KB can't be everywhere if its in DEI counter attack in SW Pac or In Central Pac if you see his Light Carriers separated from the KB send your CV's after them even the ZERO bonus will not help... As for playing Japan in 1944 its not that tragic you are able to outproduce allied plane production in fighters and when you throw few hunderd Franks/Jacks/Gorges against enemy planes you can be sure that some bombers will get through the CAP and score coupple of hits on his CV's and after such battle your opponent will have to winthraw and weait for his fighter pools be up again and japs can replace losses with no sweat

_____________________________

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Brain: The Usual Pinky we will try to take over the World;)

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Post #: 20

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 6/25/2008 8:17:45 PM

cantona2

Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

Well im playing Allies in the CHS... its late April 1942...

Enterprise is on the bottom of the ocean but 4 jap light CV's joind here there...
I lost number of BB's but no matter i sunk one japanese and i will be getting more BB's soon
I invaded Tarawa and it looks like im staying there... PM is holding so is Manila and im on verge of counter attacking in Burma soon.
RAF and USAAF rule the skies over Burma and China�Remeber KB can't be everywhere if its in DEI counter attack in SW Pac or In Central Pac if you see his Light Carriers separated from the KB send your CV's after them even the ZERO bonus will not help... As for playing Japan in 1944 its not that tragic you are able to outproduce allied plane production in fighters and when you throw few hunderd Franks/Jacks/Gorges against enemy planes you can be sure that some bombers will get through the CAP and score coupple of hits on his CV's and after such battle your opponent will have to winthraw and weait for his fighter pools be up again and japs can replace losses with no sweat

See, why cant i do that

_____________________________

1966 was a great year for English Football...Eric was born

(in reply to Przemcio231)

Post #: 21

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 7/2/2008 4:32:25 PM

jerrylt2008

Posts: 56
Joined: 5/13/2008
Status: offline

All,

finally after a month of making hole sin the water instead of the freighters, My bombers are starting to hit a little bit more. I was beginning to think they were al deaf dumb and blind.

_____________________________

"One tin soldier rides away........."

(in reply to cantona2)

Post #: 22

RE: CHS - is it fact or fiction? - 7/2/2008 5:13:05 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jerrylt2008

All,

finally after a month of making hole sin the water instead of the freighters, My bombers are starting to hit a little bit more. I was beginning to think they were al deaf dumb and blind.

It's most likely that they were just inexperienced.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to jerrylt2008)

Post #: 23

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