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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 9:06:56 AM   
Apollo11


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Good morning!


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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 9:32:25 AM   
Dixie


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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 10:12:38 AM   
thegreatwent


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Status: offline 		Morning all.

Investors seem to act like sheep. Unfortunately for them there are wolves in the markets who will do just fine. New York is likely to see some competition now if history is correct, Brussels and London went through the same thing. I just can't figure out where the new powerhouse will be. It could revert to Europe or Asia (if popular speculation is correct), yet Rio and Delhi seem possible. Or the NY could just stabilize and tra-la-la. One thing is certain, Capitalism is fluid. Don't get comfortable or complacent cause there is always a new kid on the block.

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 11:24:29 AM   
Terminus


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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 12:09:46 PM   
AW1Steve


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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 12:28:47 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thegreatwent

Morning all.

Investors seem to act like sheep. Unfortunately for them there are wolves in the markets who will do just fine. New York is likely to see some competition now if history is correct, Brussels and London went through the same thing. I just can't figure out where the new powerhouse will be. It could revert to Europe or Asia (if popular speculation is correct), yet Rio and Delhi seem possible. Or the NY could just stabilize and tra-la-la. One thing is certain, Capitalism is fluid. Don't get comfortable or complacent cause there is always a new kid on the block.


Not sheep, lemmings... The next big financial capital will probably be Bombay, as that's where India's biggest stock exchange (the BSE) is located.

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 12:41:19 PM   
AW1Steve


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Status: offline 		It's not the size of the stock exchange, it's the transparency. New York and London are relatively clean and transparent. Bombay is so-so. China's exchange is not transparent at all. Investors are normal people. When an area gets hit by bad weather , people with common sense evacuate the area , till safe. Investors are no different. When it's safe , they will be back. The lesson here for corporations is to come clean , be transparent, and therefor "trust-worthy". The firms that got hit were built on "trust" , and betrayed that trust. And consequently got hit.

I'd compare this "storm" to hurricane Ike. Many people went somewhere "safe". Do we call them "sheep" ?

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 12:51:33 PM   
USSAmerica


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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 1:36:56 PM   
Terminus


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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 2:14:28 PM   
Dixie


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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 2:49:01 PM   
USSAmerica


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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 4:52:46 PM   
Mynok


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It looks like it is raining in the mountains, so I'm sure they will appreciate that.



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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 5:07:09 PM   
niceguy2005


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Post #: 6913
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 5:24:26 PM   
USSAmerica


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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 7:08:39 PM   
bobogoboom


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Status: offline 		we have beautiful weather in the dallas metro today.

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 8:35:01 PM   
Mynok


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Started on Castles of Steel last week.....Dreadnought was interesting but there was so much politics involved that it really became dull after about halfway through.


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Post #: 6916
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 9:19:52 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		Plenty of politics in there as well, but more things going KA-BOOM!

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Post #: 6917
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 9:33:32 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Started on Castles of Steel last week.....Dreadnought was interesting but there was so much politics involved that it really became dull after about halfway through.



From other's comments, I think I would have the same reaction to Dreadnought. CoS was just fantastic.

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"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

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Post #: 6918
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 9:44:10 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

European football Champion's league is over for tonight... zsssss time...


Leo "Apollo11"

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P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

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Post #: 6919
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 10:05:24 PM   
Mynok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Plenty of politics in there as well, but more things going KA-BOOM!




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Post #: 6920
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/16/2008 10:13:15 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: thegreatwent

Morning all.

Investors seem to act like sheep. Unfortunately for them there are wolves in the markets who will do just fine. New York is likely to see some competition now if history is correct, Brussels and London went through the same thing. I just can't figure out where the new powerhouse will be. It could revert to Europe or Asia (if popular speculation is correct), yet Rio and Delhi seem possible. Or the NY could just stabilize and tra-la-la. One thing is certain, Capitalism is fluid. Don't get comfortable or complacent cause there is always a new kid on the block.


Not sheep, lemmings... The next big financial capital will probably be Bombay, as that's where India's biggest stock exchange (the BSE) is located.

I can't see this unless there is massive regulatory change in India. India is a protectionist country and likes to stack the cards in its favor. The result is no one really wants to play with them. Until this changes a truly free market won't flourish. I could see India being the flavor of the month, but not a long term mover and shaker in the financial markets. Besides, they have too many restrictions on foreign ownership. My bet is on the US, with slow integration with other nations. The next five years don't look too good, but with a return to a strong dollar policy I think there's great potential.

Most investors I know are hording cash now, believing that there are going to be some good buys in terms of investment opportunities coming up. Their assumption is that things will bottom out in about 12 to 24 months before turning upwards, possibly sharply. The investments they're looking at aren't real estate or trendy tech stocks though.

Edit: just noticed the mention of Rio. Brazil is a real wild card. I can't see big money getting real interested anytime soon. South America has this long history of swinging left, then center, then left again. There's always too much concern about nationalization. That said, they have the resources and the potential energy economy to go far.

< Message edited by niceguy2005 -- 9/16/2008 10:16:45 PM >

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Post #: 6921
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/17/2008 1:02:53 AM   
thegreatwent


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quote:

Many people went somewhere "safe". Do we call them "sheep" ?


I admit I was ranting. Yet if you consider that in 1987 the market dropped 500+ pts and that was 20% of the market you would say that was a bad day (2300 to 1700 NYSE ish). The investors who stuck it out soon realized a gain as soon as 1990.

The media in both cases (1987 and 2008) went nuts. Compare a 20% loss to a 5% loss. Still hysteria is driving people to divest at the wrong time IMO.

Those I call "sheep" are those who don't understand the risk vs. reward. They want a safe bet. Risk = high reward and high losses. Safe = steady slow reward. Yet investors act like sheep and run around while those in the know absorb losses and either fail or win.

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Post #: 6922
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/17/2008 1:32:02 AM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thegreatwent

quote:

Many people went somewhere "safe". Do we call them "sheep" ?


I admit I was ranting. Yet if you consider that in 1987 the market dropped 500+ pts and that was 20% of the market you would say that was a bad day (2300 to 1700 NYSE ish). The investors who stuck it out soon realized a gain as soon as 1990.

The media in both cases (1987 and 2008) went nuts. Compare a 20% loss to a 5% loss. Still hysteria is driving people to divest at the wrong time IMO.

Those I call "sheep" are those who don't understand the risk vs. reward. They want a safe bet. Risk = high reward and high losses. Safe = steady slow reward. Yet investors act like sheep and run around while those in the know absorb losses and either fail or win.



No matter how you call it, investing IS gambling. I have a friend who plays poker in Las Vegas (what's surprising is that he's a retired special forces/founding Delta force NCO)for a living. But he considers it a buisness, and uses the "business money". He would never bet his mortgage ,or retirement money. There's the difference. He is under no illusions.

I recall the big crash in 1987. What I recall best is Sam Walton (of Wall-mart fame), who lost a billion dollars. He laughed , said it was "only paper", and that he'd get back by the end of the year. As I recall, it took him till the end of the month.

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Post #: 6923
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/17/2008 1:35:16 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		The media is certainly helping to fuel this. It's bad (with AIG the next big boy to fall), but the media is making it worse.

The main problem is that many of the financial programs have "colourful characters" like CNN's Richard Quest, with their over-the-top behaviour, and refusal to accept responsibility for their part in this. He was asked point blank yesterday (by CNN financial anchor Charles Hodgson) whether or not the media is partly to blame, and threw an embarrassing and childish tantrum on live TV. Probably back on amphetamines...

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Post #: 6924
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/17/2008 1:56:01 AM   
BrucePowers


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Post #: 6925
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/17/2008 2:01:53 AM   
niceguy2005


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From: Super secret hidden base
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The media is certainly helping to fuel this. It's bad (with AIG the next big boy to fall), but the media is making it worse.

The main problem is that many of the financial programs have "colourful characters" like CNN's Richard Quest, with their over-the-top behaviour, and refusal to accept responsibility for their part in this. He was asked point blank yesterday (by CNN financial anchor Charles Hodgson) whether or not the media is partly to blame, and threw an embarrassing and childish tantrum on live TV. Probably back on amphetamines...

Yeah, but the media is the media. They're in the business to sell "News". If they don't have it, they'll make it. That applies universally to all outlets.

I'd lay the current crisis at the doorstep of the govt. Yes, lots of private for profit groups went insanely crazy, but no one was paying any attention. It's like calling 911 and hearing "I'm sorry this number is no longer in service" The private small investor is responsible for his or her own investments, but they're supposed to be able to trust their private financial advisor, who is supposed to be able to trust the institutions and ratings agencies...but we find out the stuff that was selling nobody understood, much less could they rate it.

I agree with Steve, it's one thing to bet a little savings on some high risk dot coms, but its another thing to start gambling with your mortgage or your retirement. When news of this started hitting a few years back warning bells should have gone off everywhere.

There's lots of talk lately about the govt not bailing out big financial institutions...I don't buy it. I don't think there is a choice at this point, at least not short of complete meltdown.

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Post #: 6926
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/17/2008 2:02:39 AM   
niceguy2005


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

Zoing (tm)

You hit the wrong key Bruce, I think you meant Xoing.

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Post #: 6927
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/17/2008 2:04:27 AM   
niceguy2005


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Post #: 6928
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/17/2008 2:14:00 AM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
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From: Graham, NC, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The media is certainly helping to fuel this. It's bad (with AIG the next big boy to fall), but the media is making it worse.

The main problem is that many of the financial programs have "colourful characters" like CNN's Richard Quest, with their over-the-top behaviour, and refusal to accept responsibility for their part in this. He was asked point blank yesterday (by CNN financial anchor Charles Hodgson) whether or not the media is partly to blame, and threw an embarrassing and childish tantrum on live TV. Probably back on amphetamines...


Sadly, many of the media in this country have a personal interest in this financial mess turning into The Even Greater Depression.

<snip>

Edit to remove comments that were way too political for our Brotherly Community. T, you are absolutely correct that the media is doing everything they can to help fuel this.

< Message edited by USS America -- 9/17/2008 2:17:33 AM >

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"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


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Post #: 6929
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 9/17/2008 2:14:45 AM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Good evening - Tithe.

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Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

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Post #: 6930
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