AW1Steve
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Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
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ORIGINAL: bobogoboom
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ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
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ORIGINAL: bobogoboom
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ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
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ORIGINAL: Dixie
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ORIGINAL: bobogoboom
does anyone else think the us navy's aircraft recovery policy is a bit dumb.
so the air force considers any wrecks from before 61 to be abandoned and fair game but the navy considers all wrecks government property and will not let you raise them. so there ar3 3 tbd-s sitting under water in the pacific that people want to raise yet they are just being eaten away cause the navy threatens you with a lawsuit if you so much as touch them. plus when you try to work with the navy to raise them they don't ever give you permission. so the only chance we have for tbds(cause there are no examples anywhere) are slowly rotting away on the seafloor. does that seem screwed up to anyone else. btw no servicemen's remains are involved in any of the tbds.
Yes and no. If it's just a wreck then I would have thought it should be fair game. If there are bodies involved (or they aren't sure) then treat it like any other grave.
I just checked with the international lawyer in the family. Here's the deal, by international law, all wrecks (ships & aircraft) that are owned by a government are owned forever. USAF,USN,RN,RAF, Any govt. (read military). The law says that you must ask them before touching their property. If there are no bodies, explosives or classifed in the wreck , generally permission is given. But quite simply the reason that you just can't go screwing around with a wrecked warship or war bird is....That it doesn't belong to you, and you have to ask permission of the rightfull owner.
not sure this is accurate but from what i have read most countries will let you bring up the aircraft(as long as it doesn't contain human remains) and they get first dibs at it and will take the plane if they want it and reimburse you for the fee of bringing it up. but the problem is the us navy will not let you do that and then when you try to get permission for some reason they will not grant you permission. unlike the airforce who says everything abandoned before 61 is fair game unless it contains the remains of a serviceman.
Your welcome to check with USN OJAG code 10, the department that provides USN legal opions on the subject to the secretary of the Navy and CNO. That's where I got my data. That's straight from the horses mouth. The USAF has a standing policy that they USUALLY permit salvage on such aircraft, but that's a statement of policy. They don't surrender any rights, and if they still want the plane (like for the USAF museum) it's there's.
Don't confuse policy (Which is built arround the word USUALLY) and international law. There have been a lot of cases where the USAF has said no even on land (because thet wanted the wreck for their museum , thank you very much for finding it for us!).
yeah but normally the airforce lets them bring it up and then reimburses the people. i just think it's a shame that the last tbds are wasting away and no one is doing anything to bring them up. and that the people trying to bring them up are being stonewalled by the usn.
I'm not sure where you are getting your data , but it's 180 degrees contrary to what I'm getting. There are planes every day being raised on the great lakes (many of them war weary vets of Midway or Coral sea that the Navy used to train pilots on Wolverine and Sable). The Navy says no primarily when 2 factors come into play: 1) there are (or should be) someone's remains. 2) there is live ordinance present.
Oh , by the way , the USAF doesn't have to reinburse, it's a "salvage fee " , similar to that paid to salvage an abanndoned vessel. They will pay a contractor to salvage an aircraft for them , but usually they use off duty USAF personal if on land.
Big question Bobo...where they carring ordanace? That would make a huge difference! I can understand why the USN would not give permission to let non-EOD people screw around with 60 year old ordance! The fact that they want to do so is suggestive of a lack of judgement in itself.
< Message edited by AW1Steve -- 5/27/2009 6:18:28 PM >
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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 
Your looking at paying only a tad less than Warrior to Dreadnought as it's out of print too. (Cheapest price i found was $80.00) Given that i'd already invested 100+$ for a copy of WtD I figured i could live with a softback copy as long as I was careful with it. I can say that the quality is high so as long as one doesn't abuse it, the softcopy should prove to be durable enough. 
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