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RE: THE THREAD!!!

 
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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 8:58:19 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		As for more Essex's, there aren't really that many that would have had the time to commission, work up and arrive in theatre in time for the fight. Lake Champlain might be a candidate. I could also put the FDR into the scenario, arriving some time after the Midway.

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Post #: 29161
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:10:08 PM   
JWE

 

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Status: offline 		Queest-ce que j'ai fait pour mériter ceci? En anglais svp.

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Post #: 29162
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:11:27 PM   
Terminus


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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Eh? Are you sure you're in the right thread, John?

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Post #: 29163
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:16:21 PM   
Historiker


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Status: offline 		Rien. Mais il me fais (?) cultiver la langue d'amour!

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Post #: 29164
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:17:23 PM   
Terminus


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Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Do we want to open a third thread here?

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Post #: 29165
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:18:20 PM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Ok, I was thinking that the CVE's would be running to and fro bringing in replacement aircraft.Lots and lots of replacement aircraft. That and the Brit's might want to make up for their extremely small airgroups on their CV's and CVL's. I would have expected a couple of more Essex class due to the number that would not have been cancelled by the A-bomb raids, and also in view of the Bunker Hill and Franklin wrecks. I would imagine that even with the Kamikazes going after transports that the Americans would have had several of their Essex class turned into floating wrecks.


I don't think the RN would have put their CVEs in front line action. They were only really used as such with the EIF as the 'real' carriers were with the BPF. Plus, operating 5 CVs plus supporting elements that far from home would be stretching their abilities. Seeing as the RN had to officially be self sufficient (even though it wasn't) and the nearest usable base would still have been Sydney...

5 CVs is probably a fair number, after all only 6 were actually deployed to the Far East. Any shortfall in aircraft numbers would have been padded out with the Colossus CVLs instead.

As an aside, the MAX carriers the RN could field by 1946 by my calculations would be 6 fleet carriers and 14 CVLs assuming no redundancy or spares to cover refits etc.

< Message edited by Dixie -- 7/26/2009 9:19:04 PM >

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Post #: 29166
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:19:44 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Do we want to open a third thread here?

seems so

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Post #: 29167
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:20:34 PM   
Terminus


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Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I'm not planning to put any RN combat CVE's in the scenario. There'll probably be a plane ferry or two, but the rest will be left out (busy in the Indian Ocean and the DEI).

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Post #: 29168
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:30:53 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Ok, I was thinking that the CVE's would be running to and fro bringing in replacement aircraft.Lots and lots of replacement aircraft. That and the Brit's might want to make up for their extremely small airgroups on their CV's and CVL's. I would have expected a couple of more Essex class due to the number that would not have been cancelled by the A-bomb raids, and also in view of the Bunker Hill and Franklin wrecks. I would imagine that even with the Kamikazes going after transports that the Americans would have had several of their Essex class turned into floating wrecks.


I don't think the RN would have put their CVEs in front line action. They were only really used as such with the EIF as the 'real' carriers were with the BPF. Plus, operating 5 CVs plus supporting elements that far from home would be stretching their abilities. Seeing as the RN had to officially be self sufficient (even though it wasn't) and the nearest usable base would still have been Sydney...

5 CVs is probably a fair number, after all only 6 were actually deployed to the Far East. Any shortfall in aircraft numbers would have been padded out with the Colossus CVLs instead.

As an aside, the MAX carriers the RN could field by 1946 by my calculations would be 6 fleet carriers and 14 CVLs assuming no redundancy or spares to cover refits etc.


I think I should be careful not to make the BPF too powerful. I've just added the Colossus and the Glory to the OOB, making five CV and two CVL, and am hesitant to add many more. As you say, the logistical burden was horrible on the RN, which is part of the reason they rotated their carriers out.

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Post #: 29169
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:39:04 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Anyhoo fellas, tomorrow's DA BIG DAY. Or Tuesday at the latest...

Starting to feel a little excitement yet?

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Post #: 29170
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:45:16 PM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I think I should be careful not to make the BPF too powerful. I've just added the Colossus and the Glory to the OOB, making five CV and two CVL, and am hesitant to add many more. As you say, the logistical burden was horrible on the RN, which is part of the reason they rotated their carriers out.


Absolutely, I wasn't implying that they should have more units available. That far from home at the end of a six year war the RN was always going to be a supporting act. The forces the RN (ambitiously) undertook to send to the Pacific for 1945 were 4 CV, 2 CVL, 2 BB, 8 CA (probably Crown Colony and Didos), 24 DD and 60 () assorted escorts. The ultimate goal was 4 CV, 7 CVL, 18 CVE, 4 BB, 12 CA/CL, 60 DD and 100 escorts How they actually came to these figures is a mystery

Much of the logistical burden was caused by a lack of support ships rather which was worsened by the distance from the UK. The RN faced a struggle to get even the few ships that they did for the Fleet Train, and iirc most of them were short manned quite badly.

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Post #: 29171
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:45:38 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		No.

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Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

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Post #: 29172
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:45:51 PM   
Dixie


Posts: 10303
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From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Anyhoo fellas, tomorrow's DA BIG DAY. Or Tuesday at the latest...

Starting to feel a little excitement yet?


Hopefully it'll be tomorrow so I get two days before I'm back to work

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Post #: 29173
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:47:32 PM   
USSAmerica


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From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		My credit card is on "Alert 5" 

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Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

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Post #: 29174
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:48:52 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

No.


OY! That's copyrighted material there...

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Post #: 29175
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:50:54 PM   
Historiker


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Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

No.


OY! That's copyrighted material there...



He got it! I indeed intended to copy here!

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Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

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Post #: 29176
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:56:38 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		At the moment, prior to adding destroyers and other smaller units, the BPF looks like this:

CVs Victorious, Indomitable, Formidable, Indefatigable and Implacable
CVLs Colossus and Glory
BBs King George V and Howe
CLs Jamaica, Swiftsure, Glasgow, Cleopatra, Black Prince and Uganda

More to come, obviously...

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Post #: 29177
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 9:59:41 PM   
Mike Solli


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Anyhoo fellas, tomorrow's DA BIG DAY. Or Tuesday at the latest...

Starting to feel a little excitement yet?


Excitement? Why? Something going on?

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Post #: 29178
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 10:00:32 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Not for me. I'm going to work as usual...

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Post #: 29179
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 10:01:53 PM   
Mike Solli


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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Wise guy.

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Post #: 29180
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 10:02:47 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk...

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Post #: 29181
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 10:23:23 PM   
AW1Steve


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From: Mordor Illlinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

At the moment, prior to adding destroyers and other smaller units, the BPF looks like this:

CVs Victorious, Indomitable, Formidable, Indefatigable and Implacable
CVLs Colossus and Glory
BBs King George V and Howe
CLs Jamaica, Swiftsure, Glasgow, Cleopatra, Black Prince and Uganda

More to come, obviously...


A pity. You've left out my favorite , HMS Insufferable.

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Post #: 29182
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 10:24:02 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

My credit card is on "Alert 5" 


I'm on the "ready 1".

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Post #: 29183
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 10:25:08 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I also left out HMS Incorrigible, Inflatable, Inhabitable and Inconsolable...

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Post #: 29184
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 10:31:53 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		There's a kind of hush,
All over the world,
Tonight...

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Post #: 29185
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 10:32:28 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Bedtime...

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Post #: 29186
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 11:01:22 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
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From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Zssssssss time...


Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 29187
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/26/2009 11:39:20 PM   
thegreatwent


Posts: 3011
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Status: offline 		I feel like a vulture circling these boards

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Post #: 29188
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/27/2009 12:41:32 AM   
stuman


Posts: 3907
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

There's a kind of hush,
All over the world,
Tonight...



Arrrrrggggghhhhh

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Post #: 29189
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/27/2009 12:42:49 AM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
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Status: offline 		So, Mike, did you get a look at the turn?

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Post #: 29190
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