RE: Where is 1.03 Update

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RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/8/2008 6:18:08 PM

sfinlay

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He,he,he ! It's all relative my friend. In Scotland we talk about the Welsh and their sheep !!

(in reply to 1925frank)

Post #: 61

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/8/2008 6:38:10 PM

marcbarker

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forums is as forums does.....it is place to encourage ideas not stifle them. How do you think glenn saunders got alot of his ideas....one of the best resources I have ever found was redarrowproductions.com. that had everything. By the way I do enjoy wargaming even though it may seem not from a purist mind. I am a programmer by trade so I like to know how things work. Even the most stupid idea can be one of the best tweaks you ever seen. I applaud all of the people that do the tweaks, that stand in the room with the little woman and uh huh ...yes ma'am while the screen is glowing..

(in reply to 1925frank)

Post #: 62

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/8/2008 6:40:49 PM

marcbarker

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We are poor little lambs who have lost our way ....baaaaa.....baaaaaaaa....baaaaaaa

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Post #: 63

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/8/2008 6:59:23 PM

MrRoadrunner

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

Really I can suggest anything I care to no matter how rediculas may see it. It may seem stupid by your view point but really i do not care what you think.

Funny, then, that you continued from this point, eh?

ROFLOL

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Post #: 64

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/8/2008 7:03:12 PM

marcbarker

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you are right i am done...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Post #: 65

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/8/2008 10:00:29 PM

kg_1007

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It seems that it could be do-able to have some way of producing the effects of the crowded roads, etc.
And Osiris, no, I do not wish to see the massacres of civilians played out again and again, then again, my great grandfather was killed at the battle of Stalingrad, and that is played out ,millions of times since then. These things are what one accepts, to play a wargame, looking past the icon or the marker, there once were real men on both sides, fighting and dying.

(in reply to 1925frank)

Post #: 66

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/8/2008 10:03:06 PM

Jason Petho

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kg_1007
my great grandfather was killed at the battle of Stalingrad

Mine too, actually!

Jason Petho

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Post #: 67

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/8/2008 11:13:43 PM

osiris_slith

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Hi

How about a concetration camp for my grand mother whom I never met and died of related diseases and for my grandfather whom I never met and who never could be the father for my mom because he died at the age of 42 of related diseases and complications from his time in the concetration camp.

I will never ever support civilian units in CS both mostly for design purposes, tactical and operational and lastly but not least personal reasons. I hope Im very clear on this.

Osiris

(in reply to Jason Petho)

Post #: 68

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/8/2008 11:20:25 PM

marcbarker

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You have stated your opinion and thank you. The IDEA was not the fact of civilians but the ability to add them if one chooses on their machine. NOT A SERVER, NOT A RESALE COPY but a personal machine at home. That was the idea to give choice

(in reply to osiris_slith)

Post #: 69

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 12:10:46 AM

osiris_slith

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HI

You should have been more clear in your original post than! It sounded like you wanted it on all copies...maybe I just missed it..if so my apologies!

You can do whatever you want on your own machine and your own copy..of course I will not argue that...but any unit modifications will have to go through matrix. OOB files and pdt files need to be encrypted. Its nothing against you but you have to understand the history a little bit behind it to understand the decision. Im not sure if your aware of it.

Too many technical wizards were manipulating the files to get an advantage in PBEM game...(see the Blitzkrieg website if your interested in PBEM games.) so a few people have now ruined it for a whole bunch of people. There may be other reasons that Im not aware of but that was one of them..and it is a good decision..

It sucks when your playing a 25 turn PBEM game watching tigers get blown away by a little 45mm tank gun from a range of 6 hexes because some clown decided to mess with the pdt files..

Thats why oob and pdt files are now encrypted. I think with Jasons dedication and the teams commitment I dont think you will need to worry about turn around times for getting your modified pdt and oob files back.

Osiris

< Message edited by osiris -- 7/9/2008 12:11:37 AM >

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Post #: 70

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 12:29:15 AM

marcbarker

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I will still play this version of cs and incorporate the oob's from this int the talonsoft one. It isn't difficult just time consuming. I just wish that matrix had craigs, glenn's mindset of mod away and have fun. I have never played PBEM too cumbersome. I used to play with the EAST FRONT GAME on the net but it boring after a bit. So I started modifying the files. I had the US OOB from Stanton's Book the Germans from Nafziger and was pulling together the USSR. I had incorporated the USMC as a Expitionary Force to North Africa, Had the Navy SeaBee's Clearing Mines etc. So you see it really isn't the fact that people ruined the PBEM it is the fact I won't buy From Matrix again Because of this. I had tremendous anticipation with this game. I thought Finally a game I love out of mothballs! So I bought it. I installed and tried to play it crash after crash. Then the OOB's was hosed up. The 1st ID had a 96th Inf HQ, and the list goes on. I updated hoping to see more stuff. I did see more things. Less problems with the OOB's etc. It just seems they just upgraded the game with the same interface. Realigned the engine for 32x, added units, added countries. Craig was working on a wwi mod for this game as well as rail functions. So ou see with out this ability the R and D is shot, The testing of a hand created unit that represents your relatives Unit. You create a leader that starts every DCG in the game as your Grandfather. So the loss of this ability is a loss to ideas and fun
thanks for the loss of money and thanks for a great mod to an existing game. This is not meant as a slam just a disappointment

(in reply to osiris_slith)

Post #: 71

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 1:28:05 AM

Jason Petho

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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

I will still play this version of cs and incorporate the oob's from this int the talonsoft one. It isn't difficult just time consuming. I just wish that matrix had craigs, glenn's mindset of mod away and have fun. I have never played PBEM too cumbersome. I used to play with the EAST FRONT GAME on the net but it boring after a bit. So I started modifying the files. I had the US OOB from Stanton's Book the Germans from Nafziger and was pulling together the USSR. I had incorporated the USMC as a Expitionary Force to North Africa, Had the Navy SeaBee's Clearing Mines etc. So you see it really isn't the fact that people ruined the PBEM it is the fact I won't buy From Matrix again Because of this. I had tremendous anticipation with this game. I thought Finally a game I love out of mothballs! So I bought it. I installed and tried to play it crash after crash. Then the OOB's was hosed up. The 1st ID had a 96th Inf HQ, and the list goes on. I updated hoping to see more stuff. I did see more things. Less problems with the OOB's etc. It just seems they just upgraded the game with the same interface. Realigned the engine for 32x, added units, added countries. Craig was working on a wwi mod for this game as well as rail functions. So ou see with out this ability the R and D is shot, The testing of a hand created unit that represents your relatives Unit. You create a leader that starts every DCG in the game as your Grandfather. So the loss of this ability is a loss to ideas and fun
thanks for the loss of money and thanks for a great mod to an existing game. This is not meant as a slam just a disappointment

Again, the only thing stopping you from modding is your lack of posting a request to the appropriate thread and waiting a few hours for the file to be processed; only the platoon and/or weapon files, of course, as EVERYTHING ELSE is still fully moddable.

Doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

Jason Petho

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(in reply to marcbarker)

Post #: 72

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 1:44:35 AM

marcbarker

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Jason you do incredible work and I appreciate all you do but the whole point is not having to wait and see if it works right. Like what I do at work you have to create the object , insert it in the alpha, check to see if it initializes then check to see if you have all the numbers correct for your intent. With creating a unit you have to create the various bitmaps, bases if unique and etc. If you need to make a minor change then you have to go through the process again, god forbid if you transpose a number and it calls in the wrong graphic more hours waiting for a return. This is really not an efficient way to do that. So if you look at it from managements point of view.

Manhours cost vs. consumer relations, Accuracy vs Turn Around Time , etc. Who is going to win? After a time with requests they, Matrix will drop that kind of support. I deal with these issues everyday in my job. It gets bad when you have to have a pat response, that this will be in the next revision or that in a service change after a time management will tire of wasting resources on this stuff and move on to new and exciting things. A new game engine, A new type of graphic acceleration to enhance game play. Sorry for the Rant, It is just disappointing is all

(in reply to Jason Petho)

Post #: 73

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 1:57:00 AM

Jason Petho

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On the other hand, it can offer an element of QA/QC of what is being submitted before being submitted. Better to submit something once or twice than submitting it over and over and over after little tweaks.

As Arkady's tool is being offered as part of the 1.03 UPDATE install, it should help with QA/QC on the modders end.

Jason Petho

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Post #: 74

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 3:14:17 AM

cw58

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Barker,

I, too, was initially disappointed with the new encryption code but there was a lot of popular support for it and Jason IS willing to do encryptions. So, let's just say I got over it.

I'm not sure if you know it, but versions before 1.03 use the old encryption code which means the platoon.obx & weapon.pdx files are compatible with the encryption tool found on the RedArrow web site. (I believe you mentioned that program earlier.) Assuming you recently purchased Matrix's JTCS, you could reinstall your game and patch to 1.02b. Then you could either be content to play with that version or use it to check your mods before sending the files to Jason for 1.03 encryption.

Certainly not the best solution, but maybe it will meet your needs. I have both the 1.02b and the unofficial 1.03 patches installed on my computer and it works for me. I think the new engineer abilities and concealment rules are the biggest changes between 1.02 & 1.03. So there could be compatibililty issues if you send in files for encryption, but if you understand the values in the platoon.oob files and what they signify, you shouldn't have much trouble. (Especially since you're a programmer). Hopefully that can alleviate some of your disappointment and frustration. Good modding!

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Post #: 75

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 4:13:40 AM

dgk196

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I don't know, was this limitation of the ability to 'mod', really necessary?

I'm relatively new to the 'modding'. I'm interested in changing graphics for improved resolution, that sort of thing..... I find with these old eyes this sort of mod is helpful!

Will I still be able to do this, without sending it anywhere first?

One other thing that still doesn't add up! There seem to be a lot of 'pi#&ed off' people about this limitation. I can't claim to understand all of their reasons, maybe its just that they got used to the 'freedom' of being able to sort of build their own stuff, without 'checking' with anyone first? Now, no matter how quick it is, there is going to be a 'delay'. Probably not a big deal in the end, I guess!? So, what doesn't add up?

I don't see an equal number of passionate responses for this limitation! I haven't searched the whole site, but from a relative newbee perspective, I don't see the need for it! I mean where are the thousands of complaints about this ability to mod? Hundreds? Dozens?

I don't play online, PBEM is boring at best! So to me its totally irrelevant! Would it have been just as easy to put a 'reporter' into the program? You know a little program that gives the version being played and if its been modded to the opponent!? Or a disabling of the PBEM function if a game has been modded? Why is it necessary to limit the 'building' of OB'S? I mean if you suddenly have 6 tank platoon of panthers, wouldn't that be rather obvious to anyone? Or an additional platoon in a company? I know this is after the fact, but I just get the feeling that possibly I just saw the baby go out with the bath water!

Still, I look forward to the release of 1.03 and will install it no matter what. Maybe after some time this will become a non-issue, I hope!

Dennis

(in reply to cw58)

Post #: 76

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 4:42:41 AM

cw58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dgk196

I don't know, was this limitation of the ability to 'mod', really necessary?

I'm relatively new to the 'modding'. I'm interested in changing graphics for improved resolution, that sort of thing..... I find with these old eyes this sort of mod is helpful!

Will I still be able to do this, without sending it anywhere first?

One other thing that still doesn't add up! There seem to be a lot of 'pi#&ed off' people about this limitation. I can't claim to understand all of their reasons, maybe its just that they got used to the 'freedom' of being able to sort of build their own stuff, without 'checking' with anyone first? Now, no matter how quick it is, there is going to be a 'delay'. Probably not a big deal in the end, I guess!? So, what doesn't add up?

I don't see an equal number of passionate responses for this limitation! I haven't searched the whole site, but from a relative newbee perspective, I don't see the need for it! I mean where are the thousands of complaints about this ability to mod? Hundreds? Dozens?

I don't play online, PBEM is boring at best! So to me its totally irrelevant! Would it have been just as easy to put a 'reporter' into the program? You know a little program that gives the version being played and if its been modded to the opponent!? Or a disabling of the PBEM function if a game has been modded? Why is it necessary to limit the 'building' of OB'S? I mean if you suddenly have 6 tank platoon of panthers, wouldn't that be rather obvious to anyone? Or an additional platoon in a company? I know this is after the fact, but I just get the feeling that possibly I just saw the baby go out with the bath water!

Still, I look forward to the release of 1.03 and will install it no matter what. Maybe after some time this will become a non-issue, I hope!

Dennis

Hi Dennis

First, you can change all the graphics you want without sending anything to anyone. The only files effected are the platoon.oob(.obx) and weapon.pdt(.pdx) files.

Secondly, yes, there was a pretty big debate about the "limitation" when it was first revealed several months ago. From my point of view (and I was in the minority), I would say it was probably 60/40 in favor of the new encryption. And those in favor seemed much more passionate about it than those against.

As you mentioned, some of the changes (like increased SPs) would immediately be obvious. However, changes in weapon values (with FOW on) would be much harder to spot, maybe impossible. In a perfect world....

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Post #: 77

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 5:00:23 AM

dgk196

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Great! Thanks for the quick reply and making it clear!

So, if I want to 'model' a specific Corps vs. Korps battle, then 'it' will let me 'build' my own units from the existing sub-units? Might seem like a basic question, but I don't do a lot of it, but plan on it, I hope!

My position hasn't changed though,I don't see the need for such a limitation! It seems like uninhibited 'modding' has done more for this game than the 'cheaters' ever could undo by exploiting this ability! Just my opinion!

Dennis

< Message edited by dgk196 -- 7/9/2008 5:06:50 AM >

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Post #: 78

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 6:55:26 AM

cw58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dgk196

So, if I want to 'model' a specific Corps vs. Korps battle, then 'it' will let me 'build' my own units from the existing sub-units? Might seem like a basic question, but I don't do a lot of it, but plan on it, I hope!

If I understand correctly, the answer would be yes. In the OOB editor, you can build armies and on down to companies using any units from the platoon.oob. Of course, there are many different companies, battalions, etc. that have been already built. The only things you can't do (without sending files to Jason) would be to create a new unit in the platoon.obx file and to make any adjustments to the weapon.pdx file. Clear as mud, right?

(in reply to dgk196)

Post #: 79

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 7:48:35 AM

dgk196

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Again, great!

So, if you can build your own Ob's and your own scenario's, what the heck is everyone bi@*hing about?

Years ago, I played around with various platoon strengths, 3,4,5,6 up to 10 tanks per platoon to see what advantages or disadvantages occurred. We where trying to figure out the attack factors in the PB/PL games. We never did come up with a consistent formula or unit values, relative to that game! But other than that, theoretical formations, what good would it be other than to 'cheat'?

I still say (in defense of the 'moders'), another method should have been pursued! I mean, if the maximum 'strength' points for tanks is 5 and the program recognizes this, then in a game a unit takes 6 to eliminate it, cheater!

The game is shut down and 'reported' as such!

'Other' programs have done it successfully without limiting the 'modding', what makes this program different? Just my opinion!

Dennis

< Message edited by dgk196 -- 7/9/2008 8:09:43 AM >

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Post #: 80

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 9:55:00 AM

marcbarker

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I just wanted to add personilzed units to the Platoon and Weapons file. Now they are encrypted. The advantage of that is that you customize the playing experience more on a personal scale. Creating a unit to me is fun. Adding to the default Campaig.oob and various other oob's is interesting. For example you created a sea bee unit, similar to engineer but not the same, weak attack strength but a high moral. In pacific campaigns Sea Bee's were part of base defense systems to help with Japanese attacks. Lets say you created a huge scenarion with a huge map. It is a meeeting engement. You have a long way to travel with your units. You have infantry not mechanized. So you need a transportation Column that can carry 2 full Strength Platoons with leaders. You create the unit, Artwork, Notes page etc. in the Platoon.oob and weapons file and convert it. You have a Cattle Truck that hauls more then 1 platoon. Now lets take that Transportation Unit and add it to the Various OOB's. Now you have a cattle hauler for any DCG and LCG that you Generate. Now what about those LCI's, Take the same context as the hauler, Change the graphic and instead of 2 platoons you have the capability of landing a full company where you need them as reinforcements. All of this is fun for me anyway to do. Now you have to submit what you want, then wait, Get it back and see if it works, then send it back for recising. It is a huge Hinderance to developing practical units to a game that truly is fun to play. You could do this prior to 1.3. Prior to 1.3 You could still play the game but it had an extreme amount of bugs in my opinion that had to be worked out. Now that some of the real bad issues have been taken care of you cannot have the choice to add a unit except for a submittal. What if you create a unit and submit it and wait for it to come back and the reply is sorry you can't add this, but in the WEST FRONT Edition of Talonsoft you can add it and it works, what does that tell you? Like I said in my earlier posts, Jason has done an incredible job, but I am disappointed in the fact that took away choice.

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Post #: 81

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 10:34:43 AM

MrRoadrunner

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Sorry to say that it sounds like a lot of work for little gain.
I am sure the encryption would prevent some situation that I found myself in PBEM games.

One was an early desert scenario where my opponent "changed" his cruisers so that they could move two hexes off a ridge, killing and disrupting my poor little PzKwIII's at a range of seven, with two shots, and then moving back up the ridge and out of line of sight. Later I found out that he changed the Brit the cruisers to be something else while looking like the cruisers. He thought he could get away with it because I do not normally watch replays. LOL!
Encryption to prevent that? I'm for it!

Not related to this issue, I also did a test with someone who knew how to "code" the game. In it I played a small scenario, Red Steel at Fedorovka. My Germans were harrassed by planes every turn, even while out of LOS. Even though there were none in the game. And, I moved toward a hex that was blocking my line of sight, only to be shot at by at least 100 T-34's, in the same hex.

These kind of "fooling" with the game may not be prevented, but, you can see how a "programmer type" could do nefareous things in games?

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Post #: 82

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 10:54:15 AM

berto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

I am sure the encryption would prevent some situation that I found myself in PBEM games.

One was an early desert scenario where my opponent "changed" his cruisers...

Not related to this issue, I also did a test with someone who knew how to "code" the game...

These kind of "fooling" with the game may not be prevented, but, you can see how a "programmer type" could do nefareous things in games?

And people wonder why some of us shun PBEM and are content to play these games strictly solitaire.

(Just one of many reasons I won't go into here.)

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Post #: 83

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 12:49:00 PM

marcbarker

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Good point berto....PBEM is cumbersome. I would not mind playing head to head accross ip addresses. You see in the old world of talonsoft I always had 2 copies of the software. It got exensive but it saved a lot of headaches. I had one copy that I modded and updated and used on my personal machine. The other copy was a pristine install with only the legal updates etc. This version I used for net play not the modded version. How you get rid of cheating players don't play with them or block their address. Give them a sour rating and post it here in the forum with an after action report. That would clear up some of the garbage in wargaming.

Everygame is like a box of peices, you never know which piece your going to pull out with a blindfold on

(in reply to berto)

Post #: 84

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 2:34:55 PM

cw58

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Barker,

I'm curious about your "cattle truck". Did you actually create a truck that could transport more than one unit at a time or was that just a theoretical example? If you did, would you mind explaining how? Was it a mod to the platoon file or did you have to do something with the game code?

(in reply to marcbarker)

Post #: 85

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 3:18:23 PM

marcbarker

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Actually I did. I submitted it to Craig Foster years ago. I created an LCT that Had a Platoon of tanks with infantry on the same ship. I was able to load to infantry loaded truck with artillery, loaded tank with rider for a total of 4 in the LCT. I could not get the LCI to work thoroughly, got it load and unload but it would not move and was hell when it got hit by a lets say L ATK

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Post #: 86

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 5:39:31 PM

cw58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

Actually I did. I submitted it to Craig Foster years ago. I created an LCT that Had a Platoon of tanks with infantry on the same ship. I was able to load to infantry loaded truck with artillery, loaded tank with rider for a total of 4 in the LCT. I could not get the LCI to work thoroughly, got it load and unload but it would not move and was hell when it got hit by a lets say L ATK

Thanks for the info!

Interesting....

(in reply to marcbarker)

Post #: 87

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 6:02:39 PM

marcbarker

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not a problem....it is neat to try to get heavy haulers to work

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Post #: 88

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 7:11:48 PM

MrRoadrunner

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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

I am sure the encryption would prevent some situation that I found myself in PBEM games.

One was an early desert scenario where my opponent "changed" his cruisers...

Not related to this issue, I also did a test with someone who knew how to "code" the game...

These kind of "fooling" with the game may not be prevented, but, you can see how a "programmer type" could do nefareous things in games?

And people wonder why some of us shun PBEM and are content to play these games strictly solitaire.

(Just one of many reasons I won't go into here.)

I've got gaming ladder reports of over 1,000 games played by e-mail. That does not include the hundreds not reported and the many test run-throughs of scenario designs. I probably have closer to 1,500 play by e-mail games under my belt.
Out of all those games I found one or two "cheaters".
For those that think PBEM is "cumbersome" or "unsafe", you are missing out on one of the most thrilling aspects of the Campaign Series that I believe kept it alive through all these years.
I won't fault anyone who likes to play just campaigns or against the computer in the privacy of their own homes. I do think that using "cheating", or PBEM being "cumbersome", as an excuse for not trying it is really quite lame.

If I even suspect a "cheater" I may just finish the game and never play them again. Believe me, I have not gone long without PBEM games. Currently I have 16 ongoing and one teamgame.

_____________________________

�The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.�
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to berto)

Post #: 89

RE: Where is 1.03 Update - 7/9/2008 7:18:17 PM

Jason Petho

Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner
I've got gaming ladder reports of over 1,000 games played by e-mail. That does not include the hundreds not reported and the many test run-throughs of scenario designs. I probably have closer to 1,500 play by e-mail games under my belt.
Out of all those games I found one or two "cheaters".
For those that think PBEM is "cumbersome" or "unsafe", you are missing out on one of the most thrilling aspects of the Campaign Series that I believe kept it alive through all these years.
I won't fault anyone who likes to play just campaigns or against the computer in the privacy of their own homes. I do think that using "cheating", or PBEM being "cumbersome", as an excuse for not trying it is really quite lame.

If I even suspect a "cheater" I may just finish the game and never play them again. Believe me, I have not gone long without PBEM games. Currently I have 16 ongoing and one teamgame.

Have to agree with MrRoadrunner here.

Playing against another human (PBEM or online) is where this game truly shines.

Like MrRoadrunner, I also have numerous PBEM games on the go.

Jason Petho

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CS Vietnam

More info: Facebook & CS Legion

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)