Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: wosung

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

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ORIGINAL: wosung

Q4 Well, it’s about treaties. It’s a lawyers question, so to speak, at least concerning some British BB designs after the Treaty signment in Feb. 1922. They fullfilled the words but not the spirit of the treaty. In short, we are searching for constructer’s short cuts.

Q6 Yup, thats right. Am just reading Roskills War at Sea, part 1.

Sorry, if some of those questions are no simple yes/no questions.

Regards

Warspite1

I`m stumped.

The Japanese simply cheated and ultmately failed to ratify the last treaty before WWII. The British only built two classes. The Nelsons, which I believe were treaty compliant although suffered from reduced range and speed in order to make the weight but keep the 16-inch allowed. The KGV`s were built with 14-inch guns but designed to withstand higher calibre (thinking correctly that other nations may not ratify). Aside from that, the British belatedly did what Japan and America were doing and modernised some of the existing capital ships - although lack of money and resources meant only Warspite, Queen Elizabeth, Valiant and Renown were modernised to any great extent.

Q4 Thats right for the Japanese: They didn’t ratify the 1936 following treaty and thus abrogated the Washington Naval treaty system for the year 1940. But their constructeurs began to plan and build the Yamaoto class ships from 1934 onwards. Their quite sophisticated solution for the next six years was: Bamboo-curtains. Start to build them bigger and hide them. If nobody sees the ships nobody can complain and thus no treaty is violated.

For the British: Well it’s a question of how to define tonnage. Nelson class (nelson and Rodney) were completed in 1927 as first British treaty BB’s. Their standard displacement was even 1300 tons below treaty obligations. But they also had vertical bulkheads under the water line, which, in war time, could be filled with 2800 tons of water as an additional anti-torpedo armour.

But compared with Japanese and German treaty violations this was only a minor short cut.

Regards

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

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ORIGINAL: terje439

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ORIGINAL: wosung

When you look closely, same def. problem you have in the navies with cruisers. What was in WW2 a heavy, what a light cruiser? Does definition depend more on tonnage or on main artillery calibre (6 or 8 inch)?

Regards

I know this one!! The whim of the guy doing the writeup for MWiF!

Warspite1

The term heavy and light did not really exist at the time of the 1922 Naval Treaty. Essentially "Treaty Cruisers" were set at 10,000 max tonnage (anything over counted against battleship limits) and 8-inch guns (The British had 7.5-inch ships in existence it wanted to keep).

Initially anything with 8-inch guns was a Heavy and 6-inch was a light. Overtime the distinction probably got blurred. I see that WIF has the British Neptune class as a heavy cruiser type - although if built they would have been 6-inch gunned. The Town class was well over 10,000 tons but with 6-inch guns and they were officially a light cruiser.

As a general rule therefore I think it depends on gun size.

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ORIGINAL: NeBert

Maybe a picture-Q?
Who knows Type and manufacturer of this nice bird?

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ORIGINAL: NeBert

Maybe a picture-Q?
Who knows Type and manufacturer of this nice bird?

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: terje439

Right on everything. Well except for calling the Jagdtiger a tank. No revolving turret=no tank.

When became revolving turret the definition of a tank?

Was revolving turret the definition of a tank during WWII?

With that definition the worlds first tank was not a tank.
Picture of a British Mark I tank near Thiepval, 25 September 1916.


Photograph by Lt. Ernest Brooks.
Imperial War Museum catalogue number Q 2486.

And at last. Not all has that definition today.

From:
Compact Oxford English Dictionary

tank
• a heavy armoured fighting vehicle carrying guns and moving on a continuous metal track.

-Orm

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ORIGINAL: terje439

Current unanswered questions:

-Neilster: What strange method of guiding American air-launched weapons was suggested by a famous researcher towards the end of the Second World War?

-Warspite1: Which two naval vessels - one Italian, one German were named after the same historical character?

-Tigercub: when was the worlds first computer made and what for?

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ORIGINAL: Ted1066

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ORIGINAL: terje439

Current unanswered questions:

-Neilster: What strange method of guiding American air-launched weapons was suggested by a famous researcher towards the end of the Second World War?

-Warspite1: Which two naval vessels - one Italian, one German were named after the same historical character?

-Tigercub: when was the worlds first computer made and what for?

I'll take a stab at the computer question: I think its the Enigma Machine you're going for, used in Bletchley Park to decrypt the German ciphers.

Cheers,

Ted

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ORIGINAL: monkla

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ORIGINAL: Ted1066

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ORIGINAL: terje439

Current unanswered questions:

-Neilster: What strange method of guiding American air-launched weapons was suggested by a famous researcher towards the end of the Second World War?

-Warspite1: Which two naval vessels - one Italian, one German were named after the same historical character?

-Tigercub: when was the worlds first computer made and what for?

I'll take a stab at the computer question: I think its the Enigma Machine you're going for, used in Bletchley Park to decrypt the German ciphers.

Cheers,

Ted

I don't know when but I seem to recall from somewhere that it may have been designed in the US and was used to help calculate artillery trajectories?????

Leigh

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ORIGINAL: cockney

thought it was a type of soda
and I found this picture.

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

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ORIGINAL: NeBert

Maybe a picture-Q?
Who knows Type and manufacturer of this nice bird?

Blohm und Voss. Bv141 dude.

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Warspite1

I remember this from an old airfix model when I was a kid - its a Blohm & Voss BV-something or other reconnaisance plane. Can I have 1/2 point please?

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ORIGINAL: panzers

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ORIGINAL: monkla

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ORIGINAL: Ted1066

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ORIGINAL: terje439

Current unanswered questions:

-Neilster: What strange method of guiding American air-launched weapons was suggested by a famous researcher towards the end of the Second World War?

-Warspite1: Which two naval vessels - one Italian, one German were named after the same historical character?

-Tigercub: when was the worlds first computer made and what for?

I'll take a stab at the computer question: I think its the Enigma Machine you're going for, used in Bletchley Park to decrypt the German ciphers.

Cheers,

Ted

I don't know when but I seem to recall from somewhere that it may have been designed in the US and was used to help calculate artillery trajectories?????

Leigh

wasn't the first computer ENIAC, and was used specifically for intelligence of some sort towards the axis powers? The computer took up an entire room and the fans alone weighed over 1000 pounds to keep it from overheating

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ORIGINAL: panzers

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: terje439

Right on everything. Well except for calling the Jagdtiger a tank. No revolving turret=no tank.

When became revolving turret the definition of a tank?

Was revolving turret the definition of a tank during WWII?

With that definition the worlds first tank was not a tank.
Picture of a British Mark I tank near Thiepval, 25 September 1916.


Photograph by Lt. Ernest Brooks.
Imperial War Museum catalogue number Q 2486.

And at last. Not all has that definition today.

From:
Compact Oxford English Dictionary

tank
• a heavy armoured fighting vehicle carrying guns and moving on a continuous metal track.

-Orm

Actually, because of the many tanks in WWII, there ended up being many different classes of tanks. Where the Brits made the first one back in WWI(actually, I thought it was the French), it was the first armored moving machine, so they called it a tank.
As WWII progressed, Germany was always looking to make bigger and better tanks. In the process they stated to make vehicles that were better served to just sit in a bush or something and use it more for sniper like tactics. Thus a new class of tanks were born. So although you can say the jagdtiger or jagdpanther were tanks, yes they were, but they were not meant to be used in the way a regular tiger or panther because of having the ability to shoot on the run with the mobile turrets. The two tanks I just mentioned were used very late in the war and were so heavy that the Germans simply could not waste whatever precious fuel they had left. So they just placed them in a dense forest and just used it as a platform with a nasty gun. It's main purpose was the armor was virtually inpenetrable while having the ability to fire shells that did nothing but disintegrate anything that got in it's way. It was the ultimate defense weapon. So by definition, yes I guess it would be a tank, but in the way they were is in WWII, was it really a tank? When on defence ( like, for instance, the battle of Berlin) it was clearly the most feared weapon in the entire war except for maybe the ME262 jet,also nothing but a defensive fighter, but because of it's immobility, the allies were very quick to surround it and disable it, but not before it was able to destroy anything around for miles away
Added note. I typed this before reading the rest of the posts on this thread. So sorry if I was sounding redundant.

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ORIGINAL: cockney

Q What was the name of the longest stop line built in England during ww2? and where did it run to and from?

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ORIGINAL: Neilster

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ORIGINAL: panzers

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: terje439

Right on everything. Well except for calling the Jagdtiger a tank. No revolving turret=no tank.

When became revolving turret the definition of a tank?

Was revolving turret the definition of a tank during WWII?

With that definition the worlds first tank was not a tank.
Picture of a British Mark I tank near Thiepval, 25 September 1916.


Photograph by Lt. Ernest Brooks.
Imperial War Museum catalogue number Q 2486.

And at last. Not all has that definition today.

From:
Compact Oxford English Dictionary

tank
• a heavy armoured fighting vehicle carrying guns and moving on a continuous metal track.

-Orm

Actually, because of the many tanks in WWII, there ended up being many different classes of tanks. Where the Brits made the first one back in WWI(actually, I thought it was the French), it was the first armored moving machine, so they called it a tank.
As WWII progressed, Germany was always looking to make bigger and better tanks. In the process they stated to make vehicles that were better served to just sit in a bush or something and use it more for sniper like tactics. Thus a new class of tanks were born. So although you can say the jagdtiger or jagdpanther were tanks, yes they were, but they were not meant to be used in the way a regular tiger or panther because of having the ability to shoot on the run with the mobile turrets. The two tanks I just mentioned were used very late in the war and were so heavy that the Germans simply could not waste whatever precious fuel they had left. So they just placed them in a dense forest and just used it as a platform with a nasty gun. It's main purpose was the armor was virtually inpenetrable while having the ability to fire shells that did nothing but disintegrate anything that got in it's way. It was the ultimate defense weapon. So by definition, yes I guess it would be a tank, but in the way they were is in WWII, was it really a tank? When on defence ( like, for instance, the battle of Berlin) it was clearly the most feared weapon in the entire war except for maybe the ME262 jet,also nothing but a defensive fighter, but because of it's immobility, the allies were very quick to surround it and disable it, but not before it was able to destroy anything around for miles away
Added note. I typed this before reading the rest of the posts on this thread. So sorry if I was sounding redundant.

1. "Tank" was a codename. It stuck.

2. The turretless German vehicles you describe were officially tank-destroyers, not tanks. Turret-rings were difficult and expensive to produce and a larger weapon could be mounted in a vehicle if it didn't have a turret. In defensive warfare, the lack of a turret was less of a disadvantage and as the Germans desperately needed tank killing armour after 1942 they produced more and more tank-destroyers.

3. Tank-destroyers most definitely moved around. Apart from getting to and from battlefields, they tended to shoot and scoot (often in reverse) from one good firing position to the next. Your suggestion that they just stayed in a single position due to a lack of fuel is basically nonsense.

4. There were many types of German tank-destroyers. You can't generalise about their resistance to attack, especially away from the frontal arc.

5. The Me 262 wasn't a "defensive fighter". It was a fighter, that due to Germany's war situation was often used in a defensive role to attack bombers. As a fighter-bomber it certainly wasn't used defensively.

6. Reading the other posts in this thread that clearly point out the difference between a tank and a tank-destroyer (grey areas notwithstanding) might have a been a good idea.

Cheers, Neilster

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I'm talking about the end of the war. The jagdpanther and tigers were meant specifically for defense. As for the me262's: Do you even know what their attack range was?. Hardly used for an offensive weapon. It was just a super fast jet airplane meant to go up and hunt down enemy fighters and bombers in the immediate vicinity and come right back to refuel. To say it was a gas whore is a gross understatement.

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ORIGINAL: panzers
I'm talking about the end of the war. The jagdpanther and tigers were meant specifically for defense. As for the me262's: Do you even know what their attack range was?. Hardly used for an offensive weapon. It was just a super fast jet airplane meant to go up and hunt down enemy fighters and bombers in the immediate vicinity and come right back to refuel. To say it was a gas whore is a gross understatement.

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ORIGINAL: cockney

 Q. who was Teruo Nakamura?

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ORIGINAL: cockney

Q What was the name of the longest stop line built in England during ww2? and where did it run to and from?

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

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ORIGINAL: cockney

Q What was the name of the longest stop line built in England during ww2? and where did it run to and from?

what is a "stop line" ?

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

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ORIGINAL: cockney

 Q. who was Teruo Nakamura?

A Japanese Pilot ?