Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

With the CWIF modification additional Chinese cities option
(16 cities extra in China) was there any debate on modifying
US ENTRY ACTIONS 10 Japan occupies Chinese city?
Currently a 4 Die roll to maybe a 3 or 2 Die if the option is used?
Else the US Entry against Japan might be massive if the Japanese has a land
offensive campaign against china which is not the case in “normal” WIF.

I know there was quite a bit of discussion over a period of months by WIF players
on the forum, but I can’t find any good summary on why/why not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mitchellvitch

For what it is worth, I seem to remember that in standard WIF FE, Japan would conquer perhaps 2 - 3 Chinese cities before the US was in the war. Three was doing quite well, I think.

Now how would that correlate to the new map?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mitchellvitch

Ouch. My head hurts from the math...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

We could also make a change on the US entry to only apply to the original chinese cities. Maybe not the best solution but the easiest way to see that US entry stay the same.

-Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

I suppose one might also have a 4 roll for the first 2 cities taken and 3 for the next 2 and then 2 for the remainder.

If CWiF experiences turn out to be true for MWiF as well, then quite a few Chinese cities will be taken.

The optional additional Chinese cities in use ought to be a requirement for any modified entry rolls to take effect.

Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

We could also make a change on the US entry to only apply to the original chinese cities. Maybe not the best solution but the easiest way to see that US entry stay the same.

-Orm

Easy enough to code but this would be very confusing to new players. And even experienced players would be hard pressed to know which are which after playing a few games.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm
We could also make a change on the US entry to only apply to the original chinese cities. Maybe not the best solution but the easiest way to see that US entry stay the same.
-Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: SewerStarFish

The obvious "cheat" would be to bypass some of the original cites and then finish off China with a coordinated assault.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: SewerStarFish

The obvious "cheat" would be to bypass some of the original cites and then finish off China with a coordinated assault.

That would work in the same way as it does without the optional cities. The extra cities gives no advantage to the japanese except better AC-stacking (when captured). If the japanese want to leave a supply- and reinforcement-place behind their lines they are free to do so without the extra cities as well.

-Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

I suppose one might also have a 4 roll for the first 2 cities taken and 3 for the next 2 and then 2 for the remainder.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

The whole Chinese theatre is going to need in depth play testing due to the change in scale.  For example, you may find it's too easy for Japan to out flank the slower and fewer Chinese, thus meaning a higher chit chance to encourage a slow down.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

For a Japan hold the line in China, I would expect only Chang Chow (sp.) to fall --- 1 or .4 chits

quote:

For a Japan moderate offensive in China, I would expect the above plus Si-An (the E. Commie city) and the E. most nationalist factory --- 3 or 1.2 chits

quote:

For a Japan serious offensive, I would expect the above plus 2 more cities in S. China plus Chungking --- 6 cities or 2.4

quote:

To conquer China, you would need all of the above plus 3 more factory cities --- 9 or 3.6.

quote:

Perhaps the best way is to assume that Japan is going to conquer China. On MWiF, how many cites would Japan need to take the factories assuming it cleared the rear of its supply lines? Divide 9 by that and make calculations accordingly.

9 x .4 = cities needed to conquer x new die roll

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm
We could also make a change on the US entry to only apply to the original chinese cities. Maybe not the best solution but the easiest way to see that US entry stay the same.

Easy enough to code but this would be very confusing to new players. And even experienced players would be hard pressed to know which are which after playing a few games.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I like the analysis of twice as many cities needing to be taken for the same penetration into China. And I would recomend 2 instead of 4 for the US Entry die roll.

This gives Japan a slightly easier time of it at the start (i.e., taking just 1 city). On the other hand, it appears that Japan is going to have to ferret out the Chinese from twice as many cities as previously. That Land CRT Assault table can be rather unpleasant for taking all those cities. The mountains are also tough to take but if the Japanese can isolate Chinese units in the mountains, they become easy targets. In the cities, the Chinese are always in supply and can potentially bring in reinforcements every turn.

quote:

I think the difficulties the Japanese will experience needing to capture double the number of cities justifies using 2 instead of 3 for the US Entry.

quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk
If I get it right, so far these are the solutions in the forum:

1) 4 roll for the first 2 cities taken and 3 for the next 2 and then 2 for the remainder.
2) US entry to only apply to the original Chinese cities
3) Halving the US Entry cost (to 2)

I think all of the proposed fixed for US entry regarding Chinese cities are all good, interesting and solves the problem, all with there own drawbacks and advantages. My vote goes for option 3, since it’s these easiest to program.

In a dream world I would to see there US Entry cost for Chinese cities to be low for cites close to the border/cost and higher the more inland the Japanese gets. And of course higher if its a factory hex. I don’t have any good solution for it, just a basic one.

Type of city: US Entry cost

Normal city: 2
Factory city: 3
Double factory city: 4

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk
If I get it right, so far these are the solutions in the forum:

1) 4 roll for the first 2 cities taken and 3 for the next 2 and then 2 for the remainder.
2) US entry to only apply to the original Chinese cities
3) Halving the US Entry cost (to 2)

I think all of the proposed fixed for US entry regarding Chinese cities are all good, interesting and solves the problem, all with there own drawbacks and advantages. My vote goes for option 3, since it’s these easiest to program.

In a dream world I would to see there US Entry cost for Chinese cities to be low for cites close to the border/cost and higher the more inland the Japanese gets. And of course higher if its a factory hex. I don’t have any good solution for it, just a basic one.

Type of city: US Entry cost

Normal city: 2
Factory city: 3
Double factory city: 4

I like 1), I like 3), and I like your last proposal, let's call it 4).
I don't like 2).