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Air Operations user control - 4/11/2002 12:22:07 AM   
gus

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 3/16/2002
From: Corvallis, OR
Status: offline 		I have enjoyed reading theses AAR's quite a bit and I can't wait to play this game. Thanks to Snigbert and IChristie and others for keeping us so well informed!

I do have a few questions about how air operations are handled. How much control do I have over Air Ops? Given the pedigree of the designers/developers of this game am I wrong in assumming that Air ops will be a similar to PacWar,, more like BTR or a hybrid/alternate solution?, i.e. are missions assigned in the abstract ala PacWar where target and composition are determined "by your staff" or will you be allowed to pre-plan strike composition, marshalling points, entry point, exit point etc. ala BTR?

The reason I am asking is that in IChristie's last AAR post, he indicates that an anti-shipping mission was sent into a known heavy flak area ( not to mention CAP ) at PM. This sounds like PacWar. If the air ops system is more like BTR would you be able to indicate to your air units that certain areas are "no-fly-zones". In this manner the given air raid would only attack convoys that were enroute to or from PM but not actually under its AA umbrella, and would only have to cope with the convoy's AA and whatever LR-CAP could be afforded by nearby bases.

Also can air-raids be planned to occur in a serial fashion from the same base? i.e. can I schedule multiple raids from Rabaul to Lunga Pt. to occur at different times on the same day, forcing the fighter air units at Lunga Pt. to sortie multiple times which should affect their readiness and ability to coordinate their defense against the later strikes.

From the AAR's it appears that I can set the altitude of a given air unit but it is unclear whether or not I can position fighter escort relative to its assigned bombing formation.

If these questions have been answered elsewhere in this forum just point me in the right direction.

Thanks in Advance

-g

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 91
- 4/11/2002 12:50:05 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		I can only give you my impressions based on reading a very early draft of the manual and playing the beta version of the game that I have. I should also indicate that I have only a passing familiarity with either PacWar or BTR.

When you set a mission for a given airgroup you can select the type of mission:

Naval Attack
Airfield Attack
Port Attack (which may attack ships in port)
Ground Attack
Sweep
Escort
Long Range CAP
etc. (there are quite a few others)

In the case of naval attack you cannot specify a target. It is always left to "commanders discretion". I assume this is because naval attack sorties are planned based on the latest available recon three times a day (Night, morning, afternoon). It is this fact that led to the errant raids on Port Moresby. I had set the bombers to Naval Attack and despite having several days opportunity to strike the convoy in mid ocean they waited until it was in port and under the protection of CAP and Flak. I could have prevented the problem by not setting the bombers to attack once the convoy had made port. But then they wouldn't be available for other naval strikes either. In fact, in one weird twist, a small group of Nells from Lunga ignored the US CV TF off the coast of Guadalcanal and proceeded to attack the convoy in Port Moresby!

For the other types of attack you can either specify a target or let the commander decide.

As far as timing of raid, it does not seem to be something that can be planned. I believe that the AI will try to send all a/c headed for a given target in the same raid, and will even combine strikes from different bases. However, the raids can also end up fragmented for unexplained reasons - and with disastrous results (unescorted bombers getting massacred by heavy CAP). A/C can fly multiple sorties in a day. Particularly in CV engagements there are often two sorties a day.

In addition to all of this you can set a variety of secondary tasks as well. Bombers which are set for naval attack can be given a secondary mission including a specific objective.

Also fighters performing tasks other than LRP can be directed to dedicate a proportion of effort to CAP and bombers can be directed to spend a proportion of effort on Naval or ASW search.

Hope this answers some of your questions

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 92
- 4/11/2002 2:58:37 AM   
gus

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 3/16/2002
From: Corvallis, OR
Status: offline 		Thanks Iain,

Yes it does answer my question(s) quite well.

The game sounds like it will be tons of fun to play and I can't wait for it to ship. As soon as I get it and become familiar with the game mechanics I will be out on the wargamers.com UV ladder!

Hope to see you there

-g

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 93
Whither the Rising Sun? - 4/11/2002 4:16:33 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Just trying to kill some time at work and musing on strategies for my current UV campaign. Simply put the situation is this:

Let's divide the map into two operational areas - East (Solomons and other island chains) and West (PNG, Coral Sea, Australia).

In the East. I clearly have a hammerlock on the situation. I can reach all the way into the US rear area with recon and strike forces if I decide to. I have beaten up on the US carrier force (though not decisively), I have crippled the surface fleet and disabled or sunk a large part of the oiler fleet. The only way for the US to advance is by amphibiou assault and that just seems unlikely right now.

On the other hand further advances on my part are not really attractive, not because of difficulty with mounting the operation, but rather because of the problem of supplying any beachead. Even the Rennell I. outpost is proving problematic to supply because every time the US CV's come out they stop long enough to hammer it and sink any shipping headed that way. I have lost a couple APD's that way.

In the West things are not as clear. I have a good strategic position and can easily interdict resupply convoys approaching Port Moresby. I also have the naval resources to do just about anything I want in the Coral sea. Even the coast of Australia could be raided easily.

However, the allies have enough airpower to interdict my supply convoys and make me very nervous about any naval units that wander into range. Real experience proved time and again that in a battle of carriers vs. land based air. Land based air usually wins if there is anything like parity of resources.

Basically right now we have classic case of contraction on to interior lines. The allies have only one real offensive focal point - Port Moresby. They can throw their ever increasing resources into that one attack and I will neve be able to counter it. On the other hand, I have to keep a credible defense over a much larger area in the off chance that a new offensive does appear. To some extent this problem is eased by the extreme mobility of air groups (they can transfer and carry out ops in the same day) so air forces can be assembled quickly. It is this fact which is currently causing the problem in New Guinea because at the first sign of major activity from Gili Gili, they concentrated everything in an effort to close it down.

So I have been trying to think of a way to exploit my strong position in the eastern theatre to bolster the position in the west. Clearly some sort of operation that forces deployment of air resources away from Port Moresby would be ideal.

So perhaps that would be a good reason to try either a major raid on Noumea or the establishment of an advanced base in a location that the US could not ignore.

A major raid would hopefully force the redeployment of some of the bombers from Port Moresby (although, latest recon says there is a sizeable bomber force in Noumea). The raid could be timed to coincide with a major resupply of the New Guinea bases so that the AI will have to choose between taking on the transports and attacking the raiding force.

On the other hand, Wunpuko on the northern end of Espiritu Santo is a good landing spot. It is close enough to Luganville that the AI will have to respond and will have to put more air resources into Luganville to protect the base there. Wunpuko is capable of supporting a fairly large airfield (size 4?) IIRC. The question is: can I spare the base forces and logistics to support something so far forward? Or maybe that isn't the question. Maybe the point is that just establishing the beachhead will make the AI defend somewhere other than New Guinea and that even if I end up sacrificing some LCU or transports in the process, that will make it worthwhile.

Comments, questions, suggestions?

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 94
- 4/11/2002 5:09:51 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Gary and I have been following your AAR. He mentioned to me today that we should encourage you to try to achieve the Japanese Automatic Victory Conditions. To do this you need to do the following:

On or after the January 1, 1943 turn, Japan wins if it holds a size 5 or greater airfield with double the supplies needed for that base, and the base is south of row 52, the game ends and the Japanese player wins.

Basically you have to take Luganville, Noumea or one of the Australian bases (Luganville or Cooktown are the easiest). Now if you don't have the carrier strength available (and with a strong advantage over enemy carriers), this is a very bad idea, but from a test point of view, Gary and I would both like to see how the AI reacted to your assault. Although we tested the auto win routines several months ago and they seemed to work, I don't think we've ever heard of a tester successfully triggering an auto win in the May campaign (or even trying to achieve the auto win). I would go for Luganville given the situation you've described, but I don't remember your on board carrier strength. Of course, feel free to ignore this and enjoy your game.

For all those out there watching this game, I thought you would be interested in this auto victory condition. Some may say it is Gary's way of encouraging an aggressive IJN commander into an ambush, but it's in the game if you want to go for it. If you don't, (or if you do and fail) 1943 can be a very long year for the IJN.

Joel

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 95
- 4/11/2002 6:43:53 AM   
Sinjen


Posts: 113
Joined: 3/22/2002
From: Florida
Status: offline 		Go for the Big win! Imagine the personal praise of the emperor. Military parades in your honor. You being promoted to Fleet Admiral in charge of the overall IJN Pacific forces.

The American's and Britts forced to sue for peace on Japan's terms.


or....

Your carrier force is decimated along with a large portion of your logisitics and surface action groups. You fall back into a defensive stance and are forced to fight an inevitable battle of attrition as the Americans inexorably advance towards Japan no matter how hard you fight with what you have left. Their material superiority cannot be overcome with the sheer bravery of your pilots as they strap themselves into their planes with no intention of ever returning to land.

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 96
- 4/11/2002 7:15:33 AM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline 		Besides supply, I believe initiative is everything in battle. I would recommend taking Luganville if only to keep the Allies reacting to you, instead of the other way around...
My $.02

_____________________________

"The Paraguayan Air Force's request for spraying subsidies was not as Paraguayan as it were..."

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 97
- 4/11/2002 7:20:12 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		I like the way Gary wants to use you as a "New Guinea Pig." Har. :rolleyes:

I gather the the auto victory is not in the players' manual. I say go for it! Like Joel says, no playtester in the history of UV-dom has ever, ever triggered an auto win. Why, it's almost inconceivable. Not only will you be promoted, Matrix will plaster your picture all over the website. You'll get rich on UV endorsements and selling tactics manuals.

I'm green with envy. Go, Iain, go!

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 98
- 4/11/2002 7:37:19 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		I'm pumped!

Cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war.

Once more into the breach good soldiers of Nippon;
or line the bottom of Luganville sound with our dead...

Just as soon as the kids are in bed :D

I shall send despatched from the front when once again I am in contact with the enemy!

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 99
No Hurry - 4/11/2002 7:53:24 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Greetings, OK Automatic victory in Jan 43. That means you have till Sept-Oct to capture the base and then with everything you have defend and build it.
Pull all everything back to Truk to reduce supply demands, (except of course for required defence units)
The number one piority will be to build the forward bases to max cap to assist the offensive. Supply has to be stockpiled in amount to have the required double supply near by for rapid trasfer once the base reaches level 5.
Maintain a reaction TF of 2-3 CV in battle area while the rest repair/refit so they are as near 100% when the time comes to begin operation. Replace the reaction TF if able to repair them as well. It would appear the NG bases should be left to dilute the allies but not be given more then the barest support from your resources. Don't telegraph your punch by raids into the landing area before the major effort begins.
Basicly rest and refit everything, build up as much supply forward as possible and use light forces to stand guard then hit with everything. Time the blow to allow the engineers to build the new base to required level.
What force to you think will be needed to capture the base? How many engineer units can be sent at once? AV-support move surplus to closest base for rapid redeployment.
This sounds like it could be fun.

PS I am in favour of Noumea (even if Lugaville is easier) but this is because New Cal fits better into my Witp plans. (I would think an Aussie base to be easier for the allies to recapture. All they need do is move forece to another base and march. NC requires amph operations to recapture but most likely will have more defenders to start. Are there any other Islands south of row 52 that can support a level 5 base?)

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 100
- 4/11/2002 8:31:29 AM   
juliet7bravo

 

Posts: 894
Joined: 5/30/2001
Status: offline 		Is there any area to move eastward? Specifically, an isolated (outside shortlegged US LBA) island on the US supply routes to Oz? Would it be possible to secure one and leave just enough ground forces to ward off raiders? Insert HQ unit and engineer units to build up the airbase. When things get dicey, extract the key units with fast APD's and destroyers, re-base the A/C...basically, build a "harrassment base" to force the Allied to counter, then abandon it before you lose any meaningful units. This could relieve pressure on your west, and force the Allies to move forces into the surrounding islands/build up their bases ect.

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 101
steps - 4/11/2002 8:32:36 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Ok knowing now of the auto victory. It would seem what Japan has to do
1. secure Lunga and build as early as possible
2. capture Gilli but only leave 1 Bdg to garrision and only build to where Kate/Val can use. -reduce other NG commitments to lowest possible level.
3. And this is a biggie knock out US CV's IJN CV should limit their operations to achiving this end. Don't waste aircrew don't wear the CV's out. Build TF's capable of knocking out US CV and then when new CV arrive rotate. Prior to the major victory condition offensive the allied CV's have to be out of picture.
4. Capture the base and build to level 5
5. move in required supply.

Each item will require a operational plan to achive.

How long does it take to build a base to level 5? (It would be nice to capture a level 5 base as this will allow a later start to operation. and only require supply convoys to be pushed through)

The main aim of the IJN is to destroy/disable the US CV everything else depends on this being done.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 102
- 4/11/2002 10:44:54 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Efate - Port Vila is also an option. It has a nominal capacity of 4 but can be built beyond that. Noumea and Luganville are already above level 5 so their capture (with enough supplies) is an automatic win.

It's the timing that will be tricky. I could probably take and hold one of these in the next month or so. I don't know if I would be able to take one in October/November after the serious US LCU reinforcements start to arrive.

I am actually much more worried about US LBA than carriers. By November US airpower is really quite staggering.

The other option would be to try to snap up something quickly and see if it can be held until January.

Well I'm off to play a few turns and see how the situation shapes up.

BTW, Right now, Luganville is definitely out as it is crawling with GI's. By the looks of it at least a division (1st Marines) if not more.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 103
- 4/11/2002 10:46:54 AM   
ratster

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: PA
Status: offline 		Where do the Allied reinforcements enter the playing area?

_____________________________

" If it be now, tis not to come: if it be not to come, it will be now; if it be not now, yet it will come: the readiness is all"

Clan [GOAT]

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 104
- 4/11/2002 11:11:18 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Noumea or Brisbane I believe. There may be exceptions.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 105
A quiet week - 4/11/2002 12:17:39 PM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Not too much going on this week on the South Pacific. The AI concentrates on beating the livin bejeezus out of Gili Gili from the air, and I start trying to rebuild and conserve forces for the big push to the auto-victory zone.

4 Aug - Well if we are going to invade the Allied heartland a prolonged period of build up is definitely required. I send all of he moderately damaged CV's back to Truk (Akagi, Zuikaku, Shokaku, Ryujo). Also start moving lvl bomber groups back to Truk. Borrowed carrier a/c will be returned to their ships. The Nells and Bettys have one more go at Enterprise - she doesn't even put up CAP - but they don't score any hits. At the end of the day Recon flights over Luganville report on CV in harbour - perhaps the Enterprise pulled in for quick repairs.

7 Aug - Pretty quiet. Other than continued raids from Port Moresby nothing else is going on. Recon of Luganville reveals an air buildup there including both bombers and fighters. No sign of any enemy naval activity except convoys

9 Aug - Another bombardment force is spotted heading for Lunga. This one is reported to be sporting a BB. COuld be an interesting evening. I move more level bombers to Lunga to see if they can do some damage as well.

10 Aug - Sure enough, in they come with North Carolina at the head. She metes out serious punishment. When dawn breaks the Atago has sunk and Kongo has several 16" size holes in her. Two other heavy CA's are badly damaged enough to need to be withdrawn In return the US suffers major damage to at least 2 CA's and a CL and probably loses at least one DD. OVerall, a victory for the Americans though. I form up the replacments in Truk and send them off to Lunga. Frustratingly, although the TF is in range the next morning the LBA stays firmly on the ground and I lose a golden opportunity to do some real damage.

11 Aug - Finally the LBA from Lunga gets into the act and sinks a CL and DD which are straggling homeward. The BB TF steams back into Luganville harbour. From there it appears they can reach Lunga in two days steaming. Luganville has definitely been beefed up. 3 Hudsons actually stage a raid on Lunga. Recon flights continue to indicate large numbers of bombers and fighters. CAP usually amounts to only 9 or 10 P-39's so that may mean that the Recon is overestimating things. Nonetheless, I will need to be cautious operating in the waters of Espirtu Santo now.

13 August - not much going on. The replacement naval units have arrived in Lunga and are integrated into the fleet. The fuel shortage at Lunga is becoming chronic and I have pressed anything that will hold fuel oil into service to ferry the stuff down there. I need to get a good stockpile accumulated.

I expect the US BB TF to make another sortie soon I am keeping a Betty group and a Nell group on hand in anticipation. The Nells actually try a raid on the ships in Luganville but fail to find the target.

I have also been getting active with my minelayer again. I have mined all of the hexes around the SE of Guadacanal from Taivu on down and now I start laying them off San Cristobal as well. This seems to be a favourite approach route. Fat lot of good it has done so far, the US ships have traversed the route at least 5 times with no apparent losses to mines.

Well, I'm going to get some sleep think about the plan for operation "Total Victory". Keep the advice coming.

BTW a note on ship repairs: Even in Rabaul the CV's were not showing any lessening in system damage after being in port for a week.

And on a/c replacement: The Betty's that I moved to Truk seem to be replacing a/c at a rate of 1 every couple of days (maybe 5/wk). Not sure how the a/c are apportioned. It looked like the worst hit groups got the a/c first though. The carrier air groups are also slowly building up again.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 106
- 4/11/2002 12:27:30 PM   
Crocky


Posts: 417
Joined: 12/4/2001
From: Christchurch New Zealand
Status: offline 		Hey Iain

From what I understand you can mine the same area several times and this increases you chances of getting a strike and the do work I got a destroyer in one of my PBEM games the other night....

Also damage if its above 20 - 25 its reccomended you sent the unit back to Japan from Truk

_____________________________

Mike Blair CROCKY

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 107
Auto Victory alternatives? - 4/11/2002 12:28:16 PM   
gus

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 3/16/2002
From: Corvallis, OR
Status: offline 		This probably falls under the category of "talking out of my hat" but here goes ...

Given the AAR's to date I can't imagine a strike towards Noumea having much success. That's not a slap at Iain as he appears to be playing a beautiful game. While the IJN is relatively intact and the USN has taken a substantial beating at this stage it might appear that a strike towards Noumea would be in order but I doubt if the IJN & IJA has the ability to sustain the effort it would require to suppress, sieze and then hold Noumea through January 1943. Given the massed presence of US air assets and LCU's (where else are they going to go, Iain has the US pinned inand how!) and the distance that the supply train would have to be stretched to, this can't be achieved in one jump. Certainly bases would have to be seized and built up between Guadalcanal and Noumea which means that Espiritu Santo (, possibly Efate and/or the Santa Cruz Islands depending on how they are modeled) would have to be seized and built up to an equivalent sized airbase as Noumea to support its subsequent invasion.

But if this must be done (and it must because GG asked for it!) then I would suggest that the Aussie route be contemplated via Gili Gili and Port Moresby. I do not know the exact game position but from what I've read in the AAR's and what I know about the situation historically I could not imagine it being any more difficult than a strike towards Noumea and the logistical effort should be substantially less. PM is certainly well defended from the air ( as is Noumea) but I doubt if it would have an entire division defending it at this stage and it would require no reorganization of air assets that a strike to the S.E. would entail. If successful the seizure of PM would provide Japan with the large prebuilt airbase it needs to project power onto the Australian mainland. In addition, the distances involved are substantially shorter as well from Japan's supply hubs hence shorter supply train. Once PM & GG are seized the IJN can seal off this area of operation from Noumea and US reinforcement/supply via CV TF's riding roughshod through the Coral Sea. Bombardment groups from Rabaul would be used to soften up Cairns all under LR-Cap from PM.

I am not saying that this is doable just that it strikes me as a more probable outcome than a strike to the S.E. and I can't wait to try both routes myself.

Good luck Iain and I am looking forward to your future posts to see how this evolves.

later

-g

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 108
Maintaining TF's - 4/11/2002 12:44:26 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		I would think it very hard to maintain the TF always around Lunga.
It appears you only get one days notice when a enemy TF heads in that direction. Prehaps we should begin a blockage of the Auto Victory target by placing as many subs around it as we can. Remember to maintain some in reserve to replace those that are damaged or need to return to port. How long does it take for Mutsu or Nagato to come down to Lunga? (not thinking of keeping them there only interested in how much adavnce notice we need to get them there. The other BB are not really suited for surface engagments but these 2 match up nice. The 2 supers have to be ready for the main battle. I would like to keep the 4 Kongo class to run with the CV's during the major Operation to form surface TF's if needed and protect our CV's.
Chokai and Tone should run with the CV's The 4 little CA (Aoba) I am still interested in seeing how they do as mini recon groups.
(1 CA 2-3 DD) also these mission could double as diviersion/feints
(esp against a human I don't know if you can psych a computer AI) If there are CL with float planes 1 could be added to each TF or form more. I would also be interested in how Kitikami and Oi with their torpedo loadouts do in a battle around Lunga. If we could limit forces defending around the clock to light units it would be wise to do so. As long as the US is not supporting a landing aimed there I would not risk anything of value to prevent it. Is it possible to remove aircraft before a battle and yet still have them back afterwards to pick off anything crippled the night before?
( the space used by fighters trying to stop air attack could be used to increase the bomber force employed against non CV TF's)
A heavy increase in fighters in the New Guinea area to attrit allied bombers groups before the allies see the need to move them to protect the Victory objective.
I really can not help much since my picture is still very cloudy. Please ignore anything silly. I think you have a grasp of what needs to be done. We are hoping to be able to have max strength and the logistics to support a very intense period (1-2) weeks. Any action that drains from this without netting substanstal gains I think should be avoided. It would not matter much to me if Lunga was damaged as long as it was ready again when needed. If this would allow supplies to be built up safely else where (Shortland) I would feed the AI a easy target to keep him busy using his supplies and wearing out his ships. How many DD's are on hand? TF's of 1 CL and 6-8 DD's should be able to dish out more then they receive and could be sent down from Rabaul (make 3-4 such TF and have them coming and going) prehaps they could also carry some supply to replace what the US destroys if they actually get through. I am guessing you have subs watching the approaches. blah blah blah

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 109
Target for Auto victory - 4/11/2002 12:53:26 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi Gus
The major draw back to the New Guinea route is the allies already have major mutual supporting bases and vast amounts of material. If we can not capture an existing level 5 base then we need to occupy one that can be buiilt to that level with enough time remaining to do so. (would be good any time after 1 Jan 43 not required exactly on that date)
Then using everything we have we defend it till the victory condition is met. The US will need a little time to mount a counter so the faster we sieze build and supply the better. If we have the supply already stockpiled at the closest friendly base. And if the US CV are not ready?...........................


For testing purposes prehaps he can save the current game under 2-3 new slots and take several approaches to this?

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 110
Re: A quiet week - 4/11/2002 8:46:22 PM   
11Bravo


Posts: 2082
Joined: 4/5/2001
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by IChristie
[B]
10 Aug - Sure enough, in they come with North Carolina at the head. She metes out serious punishment. When dawn breaks the Atago has sunk and Kongo has several 16" size holes in her. Two other heavy CA's are badly damaged enough to need to be withdrawn In return the US suffers major damage to at least 2 CA's and a CL and probably loses at least one DD. OVerall, a victory for the Americans though. I form up the replacments in Truk and send them off to Lunga. Frustratingly, although the TF is in range the next morning the LBA stays firmly on the ground and I lose a golden opportunity to do some real damage.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Do you have any idea why the LBA stays put? Late night tea ceremony, interservice rivalry, insubordination, weather, lack of fuel, supplies, suppressed, depressed, poor communication, garbled orders, damage to radios, not enough time to comply?

[NEWBIE]What's an LBA anyway?[/NEWBIE]

_____________________________

Squatting in the bush and marking it on a map.

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 111
Re: A quiet week - 4/11/2002 8:50:20 PM   
11Bravo


Posts: 2082
Joined: 4/5/2001
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by IChristie
[B]I have also been getting active with my minelayer again. I have mined all of the hexes around the SE of Guadacanal from Taivu on down and now I start laying them off San Cristobal as well. This seems to be a favourite approach route. Fat lot of good it has done so far, the US ships have traversed the route at least 5 times with no apparent losses to mines.[/B][/QUOTE]

Does the game allow degrees of mining within a hex. Or do all mined hexes have a constant and predetermined number and arrangement of mines within it. Do mines go "stale" (die, sink, stop working for whatever reason)?

And finally, what keeps a minelayer from being sunk by mines it lays, if it were to traverse or revisit a hex it had previously mined?

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Squatting in the bush and marking it on a map.

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 112
- 4/11/2002 8:53:49 PM   
11Bravo


Posts: 2082
Joined: 4/5/2001
Status: offline 		IChristie,

How is the AI doing strategically? Has it bothered to try to take a base yet, or is it satisfied to stay put and react tactically to your moves?

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Squatting in the bush and marking it on a map.

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 113
- 4/11/2002 9:07:34 PM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		11B - to the best of my knowledge:

- Don't know why the LBA stays put - could have been any or all of the above. When it is weather there is a notification but I have the message delays set very short so I don't always catch it.

- You questions about mine warfare are good. I'm kind wondering the same sorts of things. Early on I started mining the approaches to Lunga to try and forestall the inevitable raids. It has had no effect to date.

- WRT the AI. It will give you a good run for your money tactically and strategically. Truthfully, in this campaign the initiative is all with the Japanese. Historically, even with Midway the allies didn't make their first significant offensive moves until Aug '42 which is the point we have just reached. To date I have tended to play scenarios in which I had the strategic initiative so I haven't really seen the AI on the offensive. I can say that it is very good about using sound "combined arms" tactics and coordination. Twice or three times now it has multiple TF's supporting one another in various ways - including suckering me in with a convoy and then ambushing my carriers.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 114
The View from here - 4/11/2002 9:10:27 PM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Hmmm... some good suggestions here. I like Mogami's idea about reducing exposure at Lunga. I'll put some of that into motion tonight. I feel like I really begin to show my ignorance here as I am really quite unfamiliar with the capabilities of the various types of ships, particularly the Japanese.

As more grist for the mill here's a quick analysis of the potential of the various allied bases as targets for an attack. Let's assume the attack will happen sooner rather than later partly because I think delay will be fatal but mostly because I think it will just be more fun (both to write and to read) that way.

BTW, no worries about multiple saves - there are 180 slots available - I may use them all :D
Attack sooner rather than later (just for entertainment value)

Target Analysis
Port Moresby
- Not as a target but as an interim objective
- Large air contingent
- Large LCU contingent

Cookstown
- Relatively weakly defended though capable of basing large air contingent
- Port Moresby LBA can attack shipping all the way from Bismark sea to invasion site - over a week of travel time each way
- Resupply would be very difficult
- Easily attacked from ground because of roads in Australia

Luganville
- moderate air contingent
- moderate naval force
- Size 5 already so no expansion req'd
- large LCU contingent
- Can be attacked from Port Vila and Noumea with LBA.
- Would require a seaborne invasion to recapture
- Once captured resupply is easier as there are no US bases overlooking the supply line

Port Vila
- No air now
- No naval units
- Garrison LCU only
- Size 4 so would require expansion
- Can be attacked from Louganville and Noumea with LBA
- Would require seaborne assault to recapture
- Large LCU force present at Luganville which could be used to reinvade
- Supply convoys would be in range of Luganville for 3-4 days each way


Noumea
- Some air now - probably large capacity
- Probably large naval presence although not revealed by recon
- moderate LCU including coastal defense
- No need to build - already larger than size 5
- Can be attacked from Luganville, Port Vila and other New Caledonia bases which are large capacity
- Road network on New Caledonia probably allows for landing elsewhere and attack over land
- Supply convoys would be in range of Luganville for 3-4 days each way

Other New Caledonia Bases
- No air
- No Naval presence
- Garrison LCU only
- No Need to build - already larger than size 5
- Can be supported from Luganville and Noumea
- Basse Poya (sp?) can be attacked over land by road from Noumea
- Supply convoys would be in range of Luganville for 3-4 days each way

Conclusions:
Bases easiest to Capture:
1. Port Vila
2. New Caledonia Bases
3. Cookstown
4. Noumea
5. Luganville
6. Port Moresby

Bases easiest to hold and resupply
1. Port Moresby
2. Luganville
3. Port Vila
4. New Caledonia bases (including Noumea)
5. Cookstown

Well, that works out nicely doesn't it! Not surprising that those are in almost exactly reverse order I suppose :)

Gotta think about this a bit more.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 115
- 4/12/2002 1:01:21 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		Don't THINK! Hesitation kills. You have to follow your gut. My gut is telling me that you should attack Port Moresby, Noumea, and Cookstown - all right now.

No, wait. I'm sorry. I was eating lunch, and my gut was telling me to eat the three chocolate chip cookies - all right now. Apologies, and I hope you didn't do anything drastic based on that advice.

Seems to me that you need better intelligence before you even consider any of these options. If I recall, you said you thought the 1st Marine Division was in Noumea. If that's still true, I doubt you could ever dislodge them. In addition, you'd have to park your fleets off the island to support them, which will make the AI's job a lot easier in finding you. The supply line would be horribly long. You would need all of your fleet resources active all the time to support the battle and, at any given time, half of the fleet would probably be in transit to and from Rabaul to refuel. Can your fuel stocks support a long-term supporting role for the fleet?

Is Luganville one of the Automatic Victory locations? If not, I question a move after it. While you could take it, what purpose would it serve? Noumea will only get stronger, and the problems in taking it will only increase with time. While Luganville might be able to provide some LBA support (sorry, I have no idea whether it could or not), it won't be able to provide any meaningful logistical help in an invasion of Noumea. In fact, it would only divert resources (to support Luganville) from the Noumea battle. Factor in the time to capture Luganville, build up whatever forces and supplies you need before moving on to Noumea. So consider that Luganville might be a stepping stone . . . to nowhere.

With Port Moresby still active, I would think an invasion of Cooktown would be difficult to accomplish and then maintain. Supplying or reinforcing your invasion force would have to be ugly. I would also have to believe that the Aussies could eventually mount a powerful counterattack after massing its forces. Of course, I have no idea what they actually have available.

Seems to me that Port Moresby makes sense - if you can muster enough of an invasion force to overcome the defenders. Is the defense there weaker than Noumea? If so, I'd say definitely Port Moresby. I also don't know how the ground combat works to know if you would have a good chance of gaining the airfield quickly. You could certainly gain local air superiority for a period with your carriers and LBA. If intel shows that Port Moresby has a weak enough defense where you think you could gain control of the airfield within a week, I'd go there. You've got supporting bases, the supply line is shorter and, with the airfield in your possession, no allied LBA to interfere with you supply line - except at the termination point. You would also consolidate your hold on New Guinea, making it virtually impossible for the allies to recapture any part of it within the period of the game. On a strategic level, you are also consolidated with none of your forces vulnerable to allied LBA but Port Moresby. The Allies would have to mount a major combat and logistical operation to capture anything of value which, with their carriers hurt, they probably would not be able to do - at least successfully.

But I still have cookies to eat, and I'm talking out of my backside since I have no realistic idea of how the game plays.

Get more intel on your various possible objectives so that the UV On-line Strategic Worthless Advice Committee can get a clearer idea of options. Or, better yet, go gold and let us sim the situation with you!

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 116
LBA inactivity on 10 Aug - 4/12/2002 1:22:56 AM   
ftwarrior

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: Springfield, VA
Status: offline 		Perhaps I misunderstand, but are reports not issued (except for weather) AT ALL as to why air groups are not flying? Sounds like it could be frustrating trying to figure it out as the war progresses and you continue to take lumps because of it.

Historically-speaking, certainly such issues would be made known to higher command so that steps could be taken (if able/desired) to rectify such situations.

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 117
Response to the UV - SWAC - 4/12/2002 1:51:38 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Byron,

I may have mis-spoken. I think that the 1st Marines are in Luganville not Noumea. This is based partly on the fact that Luganville is where they start in the Guadalcanal campaign when you play from the other side.

Luganville is an automatic victory location. Port Moresby is not.

Land combat does not appear to allow you to go after objectives within a base. It does allow you to take the base without ejecting all of the enemy forces. Realistically, both Luganville and Port Moresby are much too strongly held to be assaulted successfully.

Just consider the logistics. Even for a divisional assault you have to figure that each reg't size units needs the better part of the big AP's (3000 tons a piece) to carry it. With three active reg'ts and organic support units (limit one unit to a transport) - it will require on the order to 10 AP's to carry a whole division. That does not include supply or follow up units such as base forces and engineers. I think I currently have about 35 to 40 AP's and only about one third are the largest (and fastest) type.

To achieve significant numerical superiority at Luganville or Port Moresby would require carrying the bulk of 3 divisions (which I could pull together) which would require almost every transport I have!

Luganville is attractive because of all the auto victory hexes (remember - Port Moresby isn't) it will have the shortest supply line. On the other hand the New Caledonian bases would be easy pickings as they only really have garrison units - but then you would have to supply them!

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 118
- 4/12/2002 2:13:44 AM   
Sinjen


Posts: 113
Joined: 3/22/2002
From: Florida
Status: offline 		How effective are naval bombardment missions at softening up targets? It would seem that if you could destroy their current supplies and then keep them unsupplied their offensive capabilites would die all together. Having an airfield is worthless with no fuel. Also no matter how many defenders, without supply they will start withering away and should be easier to defeat.

I'm thinking if you really pound Luganville and decimate any resupply efforts you could build up a bridgehead during these operations then once you have them low enough launch the assault.

Ideas:

Place wolfpacks of subs around target area to spot and engage resupply efforts.

Send in large bombardment TF of BB's and CA's covered with heavy CAP from your carriers.

When in range launch ground attack strikes from your CV's, however primary mission is to defend the Bombardment TF from air assault.

If this works, then your targets airfield may be out of action and much of their supplies could have been destroyed\consumed.

Rinse and repeat until their air power becomes anemic. Maintain naval blockade on target at all costs to prevent them from undoing all your work.

Once local air superiority is yours begin unloading troops and supplies into a bridgehead. Once you reach atleast some parity in troop numbers and a superiority in supplies. Assault.

However, do not assault before you feel the bridgehead is secure. Your carrier force primary mission is to maintain Cap over TF's unloading or bombarding.

Not sure how realistic this is. However, considering your Carrier superiority and your BB and CA's that are available this might be doable.

You will no doubt suffer losses but if you take Luganville it should be worth it. I'm thinking you have to attack soon, the longer you wait the stronger the american position will only become.

Good luck.

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 119
- 4/12/2002 2:18:45 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		Rats. I thought Port Moresby was one. Okay, so ground combat work kind of like in PacWar with one side or the other controlling the base in the "hex." Does the Auto Victory call for possessing Noumea, or does any place in New Caledonia count? I just question the wisdom of capturing Luganville (especially with the Marines there) with the intention of trying to capture Noumea, which is further away and just as difficult to capture.

But I can't say Port Moresby makes any more since if you're only using that as a stepping stone to Cooktown. My guess is that Cooktown is easier to take but harder to hold than Noumea.

As for requiring all of your transports, I don't see where that matters. If you calculate that 3 divisions is what it takes to capture the airfield initially or within a week, so be it. To win Auto Victory requires a decisive gamble that the Japanese did not historically take. IF (and that is a big if) you can capture an Auto Victory location and hold it, I don't see that it matters that it takes all of your resources to accomplish it. It is a gamble with high risk and high reward. Wherever you go, you should have local air superiority for a time.

I dunno. I see the alternative as being that the game stagnates with neither side having enough of a superiority to take any real offensive actions. You're as strong vis-a-vis the Allies as you're ever going to be. If you don't move decisively soon, the opportunity will be lost, and you'll be on the defensive soon.

Okay, I'm signing off as I'm contributing nothing to this debate. Just GO GOLD!

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 120
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