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- 4/15/2002 8:09:53 PM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		Congratulations on having the longest thread, Iain. Bet you didn't that would happen when you started, did you?

I'm with Mo on focusing on Luganville. Get the airfield out of commission and then evict the Marines. Focus on the auto victory. However, I agree with you on the treatment of the raiding force cruising to Lunga. I'd just let them have their way so long as no transports are in jeopardy. It sounds like you're not too sure what the raiding force is comprised of and that it may consist of at least one and maybe two new BBs. Until you know for sure, why risk light ships to block a raid that is only a nuisance?

From the way you've described the situation, it sounds like the bigger threat might be a meeting engagement off of Luganville. Do you have both the Yamato and Mutsu there? I trust that you would have a superiority in cruisers and destroyers in any such engagement, yes?

Overall, it sounds like the eastern operations are going well. I was shocked to see how quickly you were thrown out of Gili Gili. You have had the commander beheaded, haven't you? (Notice I use "we" when things are going well and "you" when they're not. ) Was there a supply problem there? Did the attackers have overwhelming numerical superiority? Luck? Most importantly, is there any lesson in that battle that you can use to evict the Marines in Luganville?

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 241
- 4/15/2002 8:45:01 PM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline 		I think you should let the AI go at Lunga by itself... No need risking your ships if there's fast BBs about - they've got radar by now, don't they?
I also agree you should keep the heavies on station a little longer at least - keep the hurt on and you'll be rewarded with a faster land campaign.

How's the fuel situation? Sounds like you're running low, or is that just my perception?
Also, any luck locating the 2nd Marine Para yet?
Any thought to keeping the 2nd Division in Rabaul in case you need to throw them into the fire somewhere?

Keep up the pressure and stay the course. If things get too antsy, remember you have some CVs in Rabaul...

_____________________________

"The Paraguayan Air Force's request for spraying subsidies was not as Paraguayan as it were..."

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 242
- 4/15/2002 9:44:01 PM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		If the transports haven't long since departed, you may also want to consider moving the 2d Division to a more forward location - possibly Lunga - so that you can react quicker to developments.

Not being familiar with the gameplay, I'm not sure what all of the drawbacks are of moving them forward. I guess they would be subject to malaria and possible bombardment. In addition, I guess you would have to run otherwise unnecessary supply missions to Lunga. Nor do I know how much time you save in basing them forward. Certainly any of these factors or the fact that the transports have departed and are now detailed to more important missions could easily outweigh any benefits.

But, it's worth three seconds of thought.

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 243
2nd Div - 4/15/2002 10:11:55 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Greetings, if the 2nd Div is to remain in the malaria zone and consume supply it might as well go to Luganville. If supply is the issue it will remain one no matter where it goes except for back to Truk (the only base we have outside the zone and with unlimited supply)

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 244
- 4/15/2002 10:24:10 PM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline 		Mo-
Thats a good point. I was thinking Rabaul was out of the Malaria zone... Whats the supply situation at Rabaul? It seems to me it would be easier to supply the Division there (thus nullifying the effects of Malaria), while still maintaining a forward presence... Thoughts?

_____________________________

"The Paraguayan Air Force's request for spraying subsidies was not as Paraguayan as it were..."

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 245
Confused - 4/15/2002 11:06:58 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, I lost the thread of what has been going on. I never had a clear picture and I lost any concept of what was occuring back in July. I was under the impression there was going to be a period of building up prior to launching the offensive. So I can't really offer any advice being lost in a fog of war. And as I said in an earlier post there is no reason for me to try to point out how/what I might have done differant since it does not promote a future course of action.
All I can do is make general suggestions using my abstract logic the person in control has to decide if they can be done.

I. The Operations objective is to attain an auto victory condition.

No future expendeture of material that does not go towards meeting that requirment should be conducted.

If a course of action is deemed nessacary or helpfull to that end it should be undertaken as soon as possible.

To decide where the 2nd Div should be placed the following questions must be answered.
If it moves to Luganville can it be supplied? (can the force presently there be supplied?)
Are there sufficent transports to supply it at another base if it is not to be sent to Luganville? (would those transports be better employed supplying the force attempting to achive the auto victory.

If the present force at Luganville is not enough to capture the base but the addition of the 2nd Div would meet that objective, but supply can not be provided at Luganville then the 2nd Div must be placed where it does not impact the supply effort (Truk)
While a surplus is built up on Luganville in enough quanity to provide for it's future tranfer there.

All units that are not presently engaged in securing the auto victory should move to where they have the least supply requirment.

The defense of bases needed to maintain the supply line should be looked at to insure they are as secure as possible.

Airunits should be moved to where they can recover effectivness and lessen supply requirments.

All bases not on supply line should be reduced/abandoned to provide more material for Luganville.

Approx 6 weeks remain before land offensive on Luganville must commence trying to gain control by offensive means.

The 6 weeks should include efforts to deplete the enemy supply there and close it to further additions/resupply

If Luganville can not be isolated within these 6 weeks the forces we have there should begin withdrawl. This will ease our supply and rebuild our strength for another try at auto victory when we are again ready.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 246
- 4/15/2002 11:20:51 PM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Let's see a number of things. Maybe starting with the most recent.

With fast transports - (12-13kts) you can probably plan on the following.

Allow 2 to 3 days for embarkation

Transit to Rabaul, Shortland or Lunga are about the same from Truk (around 5 - 8 days).

It took 17 days to embark and travel to Luganville but there was some serious messing about involved. I would guess that it could be done in about 12 days in a pinch

Transit from Rabaul to Luganville would probably take at least half that and more if the convoy is routed north of the solomons to avoid detection and LBA out of New Caledonia

Transit from Shortland (where they cam from originally) is about 2 days shorter than Rabaul.

One complication with using Lunga for forward supply is that all the mining I did is now forcing convoys to go all the way north around Malaita to get to Luganville. I need to read up on mine sweeping to see if there is anything I can do about that. So it is taking about 4 - 5 days to reach Luganville depending on routing. I have been tending to route them East and north around Santa Cruz because it seems to be less well patrolled. This adds a couple days to the transit time though.

I decided to move them out of theatre mostly because of Malaria and supply concerns. There is enough LCU at Lunga to put togehter a fairly strong force in a hurry if I have to and I have enough fast transports to lift about 1500 troops at time (more if I press some DD's and CL's into service). That is probably my best backup to a new threat somewhere. The 2nd div needs to rest and get strong for the final push at Luganville. I am outnumbered about 46K to 38K right now (but many of the US troops will be engineers with low combat value). The troops ashore are going to be pretty worn out by year end so a fresh division is the best bet.

The supply situation at Lunga/Shortland/Rabaul is not bad about (20K (with 25K on a convoy bound for Luganville), 50K, 75K) IIRC but the fewer mouths to feed the better.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 247
- 4/16/2002 12:02:23 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		I was going to make the case that the 2d Division should be used as a reserve to counter events, but it sounds like the force at Lunga will suffice. Even if the 2d Division were needed, it doesn't sound like there are enough fast transports to move elements of the 2d Division in any larger quantity than Iain could move the existing units on Lunga.

If Truk is the only location that doesn't require supply assets, and especially if Rabaul has malaria affects, it sounds like Truk is the best place for them. I still have the concern that it will take two weeks to get them into battle - assuming the transports are already at Truk. Add in transit time from the front to Truk, and I gather we're looking at even more time. I have the feeling that it's going to be tricky to withdraw the transport force to Truk and then return with the 2d Division in coordinated fashion. But, given the supply problems at the front, I guess it does make sense to keep them in Truk.

This may sound obvious, Iain, but you may want to consider what is necessary to transport the Division and do some backwards planning so that when do decide to move them, you'll be better prepared to relocate assets. Do you know how many transports are required to move the division? Do you need additional transports to carry supply for them? It will also give you an idea of how far in advance you need to put the plan in motion before the 2d Division is in battle. From what you've said, it sounds like it could take almost a month. Keep in mind that, when you decide to implement the move, you may need ships that, for example, have just left Rabaul on a supply run to Luganville. That ship would then have to go all the way to Luganville (a week?), dump its supplies, transit all the way to Truk, load the division, and then transit all the way back to Luganville. That's a long, time-consumming path.

An alternative might be to plan on staging the 2d Division to a point further forward, e.g., Rabaul or Lunga. That way you can press available ships into the move from Truk to the staging area when available. It may actually be more economical to have some transports make two runs from Truk to the staging area while other ships remain at the front transporting supply. In any event, the plan would be to move the division to the staging area piecemeal as shipping assets are available. Once at the forward staging area, it will be easier and quicker to assemble a task force that can transport the division en masse to its destination. Hopefully, the staging wouldn't take more than a week or two, so the effects of malaria and supply would be minimized. You also wouldn't need quite the coordination you would otherwise need because you are using assets as they are available, and ships could be tasked piecemeal as they become available. For example, a ship on supply duty would need only know that they have to be at Lunga in 10 days for the final move rather than having to plan that ship's tasking a month in advance.

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 248
- 4/16/2002 12:48:57 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		OK, continuing backwards through the comments:


[QUOTE]How's the fuel situation? Sounds like you're running low, or is that just my perception?
[/QUOTE]

Fuel is not great but workable right now. There's not a lot of fuel ashore at either Shortland or Lunga but there is about 20K tons running around on replenishment ships including some in Port Vila - it may be gone now with all the heavy BB activity.

There is another 50K loaded in Truk and leaving for Lunga. As well, I have been sending fuel by barge from Rabaul to Shortland and by AP's from Truk to Lunga. There's probably another 10-15K in transit to Lunga right now. In short, I think I can get through the next week or so, but after that I will have scale back operations to some extent (i.e. send the heavies to Rabaul or Truk)


[QUOTE]From the way you've described the situation, it sounds like the bigger threat might be a meeting engagement off of Luganville. Do you have both the Yamato and Mutsu there? I trust that you would have a superiority in cruisers and destroyers in any such engagement, yes? [/QUOTE]

Mutsu, Nagato and Yamato are home ported at Port Vila. They sortie every day to beat up the airbase at Luganville each night. They have a relativel light covering force (2CA's 5DD's?) because escorting ships were in short supply with all the convoys - also the DD's took the brunt of enemy action off Luganville, I lost 5 or 6.

Chance of a meeting engagement is pretty small. The US CA's are wll north of Luganville now (just south of Rennell).

Just BTW, I also have a CL TF doing the Luganville shuffle from Port Vila as well. They just arrived last night and I haven't looked to see what the fuel situation is and decide how long they can stay.

The carriers are in Shortland with the BB's. That's where the Shortland fuel reserve went. They are in a good position to catch the enemy TF on the outbound leg (they are within a night's steaming now and probably cannot be attacked before they can bombard). I will have to think about that. Key factors in the decision will be:
1. Fuel useage - I can mitigate this by taking the BB's out of the covering force now. I have no reserve at Shortland so they will have to go back to Rabaul next time (they probably should have this time - oh, the power of hindsight).
2. Aircraft attrition - I am getting concerned at the rate at which my air combat power is being eroded. The last really big reserve is on the carriers. This erosion is mainly a problem of intensity of ops and the fact that I am not getting the av support to the bases which are operating most of the aircraft (50+ points of av support went into the bag at Gili Gili). The result is that most fwd groups are operating at 30 - 70 % of available a/c and for many they are down to 50% or less of their original complement (opposing enemy strikes escorted by 25+ fighters will do that to you).

Anyhow... I do want to risk a major exposure of the carrier a/c unless the target warrants it. A couple of CA's would not, A couple of BB's might. A couple of CV's definitely would!

Unfortunately, I won't find out the exact composition of the invading force until it bombards. In order to catch them outbound I need to sail the carriers immediately...

3. Getting air assets into position to attack the TF on the way home is not a problem. I now have bases all along their route. The question is finding the a/c.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 249
Stupid Convoy Tricks... - 4/16/2002 1:40:35 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		More fun than NCOS officers were supposed to have...

wrt the 2nd dvision and timing - To be honest, I had not sat down and worked out the math until you raised the point. To whit:
The division will arrive in Truk around 10 Oct. It will take 3 days to debark (14 Oct). It will be required back in theatre by around 15 Nov, which will give the boys about a fortnight of R&R in the fleshpots of Truk before getting back on board ship.

Two weeks would be just about enough time for the convoy to make a run to Lunga and back on a supply run. Though, unless things get a lot worse than I predict, I will probably just leave the transports in Truk.

The problem with staging supplies as you suggest is unload and load times. THis is strongly affected by port size. It required about 3-4 days to load 21000 tons at Lunga for the trip to Luganville. Lunga is quite a small port (size 3 now?). Shortland is bigger but still that means that the double shift costs about a week's worth of time. The only way it really makes sense is if you want to have convoys of particular composition doing the final run. Smaller convoys are less likely to be detected so I used very small runs (2 or 3 ships) out of Rabaul to resupply Lae, Buna and Gili Gili instead of big convoys out of Truk. It may also be that you do not want to risk the big, fast transports in the danger zone, so you would rather unload in the rear areas.

Overall, I would say that one tool that would be very useful in the game would be a "convoy" planner table. Something to provide a quick overview of the location, composition and ETA of all the convoys on the map. With 85 merchant class vessels and probably 10 different convoys steaming at any one time I find it very hard to keep track. This is exacerbated by the fact that you load the convoys and then they disappear out of your conciousness - becoming a little dot on the ocean - until the get to their destination and you frantically try to remember why you sent that paticulay convoy there!

There are tools available in the game now (such as the sortable TF list, info boxes when you mouse over convoys, the TF info screens), maybe as I get more proficient I will make better use of them. For now though I would say that a good addition to the WITP interface would be a convoy planning and status board.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 250
- 4/16/2002 2:28:59 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		Jeez, I hadn't realized that the 2d Division hadn't even reached Truk yet! I'm having trouble with the time scale: your invasion of Luganville happened quickly, but the 2d Division is still on its holiday cruise. Well, if you're going to keep its transports in Truk until the boys re-embark, problem solved!

Remember to tell the Truk MP's and Shore Patrol to grant the boys wide latitude in their recreation; this will be the last chance for a lot of them to ever recreate. And they'll need the highest morale possible when they land - even if they are digging and scratching their private parts.

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 251
convoys - 4/16/2002 2:30:40 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Supply convoys appear to me (a major bean counter) to be the most important thing in the game. I tend to whip out combat TF's but concentrate on supply. You need to figure how much supply use will increse once you start hitting them with major land combat every day. Activity will need to increse for a time just to run the enemy out of supply. So a stockpile has to be ashore prior to commencing otherwise you might run low just at the crital time. If you can send me the numbers I will do the computing.

(how much a unit of infantry arty etc expends per day of intense combat)

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 252
- 4/16/2002 2:38:06 AM   
juliet7bravo

 

Posts: 894
Joined: 5/30/2001
Status: offline 		As I recall, in PW you can only get an LCU up to 50% readiness using "over the beach" supply, and can't stockpile excess supply. Is it the same in UV?

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 253
- 4/16/2002 2:52:13 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		These are good questions and ones that go beyond my capacity to answer. I'll try to do a little research tonight and see what we can come up with

The LCU status screen does list the amount of "supply needed" - I am assuming that this is related to activity as well.

As for the issue of supply over the beach - it certainly affects the rate of unloadin but beyond that...

I guess another thing that would be useful would be some sort of "staff yardsticks" help file with information such as:
- daily rates of consumption for various unit postures for a typical Reg't/bde/dvision
- daily rates of consumption for typical LBA activities
- Loading/Unloading times as a function of base time
- Distances between based in miles or hexes so that it can be compared to ship endurance
- Rates of fuel consumption as a function of distance travelled

These are all the sorts of information that staff would normally have available (or memorized) when making plans. I find the logistics planning to be one of the more difficult parts of the game, in part, because this kind of information is not easily available in a concise format (you can certainly get it, but you have to go looking).

In fact, what would be really neat for WITP would be a sort of "staff calculator" which would allow you to input parameters like number of troops, days of operations, distance from supply source, port facilities, etc and which would then generate a "staff solution" in terms of supply rates, durations, number of convoys, fuel requirements etc. - just like a command staff would normally do.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 254
good idea - 4/16/2002 3:37:51 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hey don't say that outloud. We can design and program one and then extort huge sums from mind boggled players. "The UV Supply Predictor' only #19.95

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 255
- 4/16/2002 3:41:13 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		Funny, that sounds like Gary talking there . . . .

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 256
Western status - 4/16/2002 4:47:03 AM   
Toro


Posts: 578
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: 16 miles southeast of Hell (Michigan, i.e.), US
Status: offline 		Iain, following your AAR is great, giving all of us an excellent view of how play of this game will run. Many thanks.

Now, what's the status of the western side of this, over a Lae? Still seeing lots of air activity? It comes to mind that the Allies may be attempting to do exactly to you what you're trying to do to them: cut off the head of the snake. As you continue to progress south in the Solomons, they're taking New Guinea back. Once that occurs, they theoretically could have a strike east toward your bases which would leave your forces, now concentrated further south, in a world of hurt. I consider this because of the intense activity they seem to be showing in the New Guinea area.

Just a thought.

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 257
- 4/16/2002 4:51:42 AM   
ftwarrior

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: Springfield, VA
Status: offline 		I would have to agree that a convoy planner of some sort should be near the top of the list for the first UV patch and WITP. I'm not in possession of a beta version (so I don't know exactly what the mechanics are like), and the required attention to logistics should never be minimized in a games like UV/WITP. But, having a good tool to manage it would definitely keep the fun factor elevated by minimizing bookkeeping toil.:)

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 258
Holy sunburn, Batman!!! - 4/16/2002 7:01:43 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Wow. I send my box in for some upgrade and maintenance and the geopolitical situation has drastically changed! Go, Iain, go!

I'm not sure of this automatic victory bingo prize, though. There should be more parameters regarding it's resolution. A Japanese Phyrric (I hate trying to spell that word) victory should not result in an automatic end of game as it would initiate a totally unrealistic expenditure of forces on an all out endeavour. "Congress" and "Parliment" should be required to "vote" on a peace resolution, taking into account allied losses and Japanese losses, and their respective effects on allied morale on the homefront, making this Japanese option much less cut and dried and more risky. Know what I mean, jelly beans?

By the way, I'm half way through my injury leave and still no UV in my drive! Am I gonna have to break a leg or something more drastic so I can enjoy a few weeks of grognard's heaven, or what? I know... if Iain achieves an automatic victory (meaning Iain must forgo any semblance of a life for a few days for our benefit), release the product. I've only two weeks left and this forum is like a porno channel...I appreciate the real thing better!

Cheers all!:D

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 259
Sorry for the delay - 4/16/2002 8:03:19 PM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		I played about a week of game time last night and the network went down just as I was posting. I was too tired to stay up and wait for it to get sorted out so here goes, from memory

5 Oct - After consultation with the general staff I move everything out of Lunga and let the US Cruisers have their way. They do a pretty good job of it too! They put the airbase out of commission so I am denied my revenge the next day.

I did sortie the carriers after first reducing the screening force and embarking extra Kates. Unfortunately the US TF decides to take the long way home and they head due east, putting them at max range from the CV's in the slot. I decide not to pursue them, hoping that Port Vila will get a crack at them on the way home.

The supply convoy is approaching Luganville. It should be there in a couple of days. The av support situation continues to be a real pain. Port Vila is littered with damaged a/c - about 60% of the total on base. The patrol boats are ferrying base force pers from Truk and I have embarked some support from Lunga on a fast transport convoy. I have moved some support from SHortland down to Lunga to replace them - we call this musical base forces - make sure you're on a base when the music stops!

The bombardment of Luganville continues. The base is still flying a few fighters but nothing really to speak of.

6 - Oct The US cruisers make a pit stop at Luganville on the way home! They must have sneaked into port on the way home. Of course I have been resting all the planes on Port Vila so they don't sortie and another opportunity is missed. It will get very exciting if they are still there tonight when the Luganville express rolls into town with Yamato & co!

I am starting to detect a shift in US LBA deployment. While Lae is still getting its daily dose, the number of a/c operating from Noumea has gone way up. Raids against Koumac are up into the 75+ plane category now. They routinely pound the airfield but don't do much damage to the troops on the ground. Koumac is fairly well supplied and I am happy to have it as a target to divert attention from Port Vila and Luganville.

Raids agains Port Vila have also gotten more intense. Two of the tankers that I moved there have been disabled. I get the third one out while the getting is good.

I have decided to solve the refueling problem by using Nevea as a tanker station. Replenishment convoys pull in there and surface units on the Luganville run can pull in for fuel. It seems to be working much better than stockpiling at Lunga. The heavies will probably have to go there after tonight's action so I have moved another cruiser group there to refuel and head down to Luganville to keep the pressure on

7 - Oct. The US CA's leave before the evenings festivities and there is no action off Luganville. The airfield appears to be out of commission, but there is no telling if it will stay that way.

The convoy arrives in Luganville. Large air raids continue on Koumac and Port Vila

The US CA's are spotted at the end of the day down near Noumea but not out of range for the bombers on Port Vila. I get partial revenge when Astoria is torpedoed (twice) and San Francisco takes a bomb hit. No BB's in the TF, just three CA's (the aforementioned two plus Australia). This would seem to confirm intelligence estimates about Allied Naval strength.

The airbase at Lunga is still closed - the US CA's did a pretty thorough job. I'm not sure I'll let them in unopposed next time.


.... More to follow in a few

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 260
- 4/16/2002 8:57:04 PM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Mogami - just FYI, I compiled some of the info we were discussing yesterday in terms of supply etc. I have some screenshots to post but they are on my machine at home. Hopefully I can post them later today.

Now, where were we:

9- Oct - The luganville shuffle continues for a couple of days. The airfield at Lunga proves to be tough to keep out of commission. It must be because of its size and the availability of engineer units. It keeps coming back even after some pretty good poundings. The heavy units are headed back for another round after refueling at Nevea.

The convoy is still unloading. They still have over 65% on board, I figure it will take them about a week to unload. By the time they are through, the next convoy carrying another 35K tons from Shortland will be due.

Air raids from Noumea continue with increased intensity. So far they are mostly concentrating on Koumac and the ships at Port Vila and not the convoy at Luganville.

The aviation support situation at Port Vila continues to be serious. I try to rest planes as much as possible and I have moved some groups back up to Truk with the planes that can fly. I'll move them back down is some attractive targets appear.

At the end of the turn I notice that the US begins an airlift of supplies to Luganville. I still have a small LRP on station and they report shooting down several of the transports. This is a good sign, because it means the supply situation is starting to bite. I will beef up the LRP to see if I can interdict more transports if the AI tries it again.

10 Oct - The US CA's are at sea again. This time I pick them up off the N tip of New Caledonia. The system works the way it's supposed to and a/c from Port Vila put another bomb into San Francisco. A larger raid would have been nice, but the planes are still mostly grounded while the repair crews are catching up.

I'm not sure where they are headed. They do not appear to have any transports in tow so I don't think it's and invasion of Koumac. Could be another run for Lunga in which the Birds of Paradise will be waiting. They will have to survive another day of air attacks to get there and this time I'll be ready.

The AI sends a big raid agains the convoy. Despite my having almost 30 fighters on station the raid gets through and sinks one of the transports and damages an escort. This is a little ominous. The disturbing thing about this is that not only are the raids getting bigger, I think their aim is getting better too. With raids of 50+ bombers, I just don't know where I am going to find the fighters to keep them off the convoys.

I think this convoy and the next may be the last two really big ones I am able to send. They are mostly made up of 3000 tonners and that is what is taking so long to unload - which is the real problem. I think from now on, I may use the smaller AP's for this run to decrease their exposure at anchor.

11 - Oct - [B]The Revenge of the Birds[/B]
The AI gets and object lesson in pushing your luck when the US CA's are caught south or Rennell I. by planes from Lunga. The San Francisco is torpedoed once and the Australia takes 2 bomb hits. By then end of the day the cruisers have split off from the main task force a sure sign that they are in trouble. Just in case they press on to Lunga I prepare a fast CA force to run down the slot from Shortland.

LBA from Noumea takes it up another notch. This time the concentrate on the heavy group which is laying up in Port Vila. Again the CAP does what it can but the raid gets through and this time they manage to hit Nagato. The damage caused is minor (less than 10% system damage) but it's too close for comfort. I think I'm going to have to start running the bombardment forces in from the north. Port Vila is just too close to Noumea.

The convoy up anchored and sailed in the night, because I had forgot to set them to "do not retire". I straighten that out and send them back. Likewise the fast transports carrying the base force for Port vila have been fiddling around at sea, I think afraid to go into Port Vila because of the air activity. I set them to "do not retire as well"

12 Oct. The US cruiser TF breaks off and turns up in Luganville in the morning. They manage to avoid tangling with the bid dogs but the Port Vila air force has a go at them and hits Australia repeatedly and also damages a DD. I see no sign of San Francisco and suspect that she was sunk after the action yesterday.

The AI tries another airlift into Luganville and this time the carnage is impressive (if the pilots reports are to be believed). It seems like a large percentage of the missions were interdicted and several transports were shot down.

Overall, the campaign is playing out about the way I expected. I still have complete mastery of the ocean and the ability to interdict any naval operation that I care to. I have enough air parity to keep the supply lane to the beachead open for now but I can see the day coming when that will not be true.

The airbase at Luganville is a non-factor right now. Probably as because there are too few supplies to repair damage and planes as well as the damage from the bombardments.

The next couple of weeks will be crucial. I need to get enough supplies ashore before the increasing air power starts to close the supply line. I'm also going to have to rethink the deployment of reserves as well. I'm not sure I'll be able to sail them down in the large transports - I may have to shuttle them in over a period of days using fast transports. If so, I'll need to get them moved forward sooner. It will all depend on how the air situation goes.

Once the convoys are done, I am going to have to find a way to rest some of the air assets so that I can pull together enough firepower to actually contest the air battle when the land battle starts to heat up.

On the positive side, the supply situation must be serious on the other side or the airlifts would not have started. I think I can successfully keep Luganville isolated both by sea and air so it will be an interesting month of November and December. Alot will also depend on the AI's reaction to the bases at Koumac and Port Vila...

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 261
A nail biter! - 4/16/2002 9:22:04 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Iain, looks like all those staff courses you had to take back in the arty days are standing you in good stead. This is a GREAT AAR. Lots of info, almost reads like a story line.

Is it me, or does there seem to be way too much continuous action? You would think by now that most of the allied and IJN units would be at the point of exhaustion. Is this the case, as I have little idea from the posts? What are the system damage levels on your ships which have been in action continuously but have not been hit, they must need an overhaul soon. What are the fatigue levels? Morale?

Back to the fuel issue:p . The level of force utilization on the Japanese side is huge. Did the Japanese have this much oil to pull this off realistically? Maybe our logistics master Mogami could make a rough calculation of Iain's fuel usage up to now (assuming his life in a cave near Mt Fuji is lacking enough in joy that such an undertaking would be a pleasure :D ) based on his data posted in the FUEL ISSUE thread a few weeks ago. This would be very informative and perhaps (if unrealistic) lead to an adjustment of the unlimited fuel situation at present in a future upgrade.

Anyway...Looks like the allies are in deep doodoo, Iain.:)

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 262
Fuel useage - 4/16/2002 9:38:11 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Well since the fuel has to be hauled down from Truk the system works. I think Ichristie has discovered the BB's suck up everything from everywhere. The Yamato group cruising around would need around 45k ( tons every 4-5 days. It is likely using a little less by staying near by. I too would like to know how much fuel it needs in game terms. (the 45k Tons would be Yamato 4 CA 1 CL 6-8 DD)

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 263
- 4/16/2002 9:55:09 PM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		That number must be close to correct.

Let me see.... The heavy TF Consists of Yamato, Mutsu, Nagato, 1CA and 6 DD's.

They started full and in 4-5 days of doing the Luganville Shuffle (which does not require steaming an full speed) they emptied 3x5K tankers and were down to about 30% again.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 264
- 4/16/2002 9:57:53 PM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Anyway...Looks like the allies are in deep doodoo, Iain.[/QUOTE]

They may well be, but they are doing a fine job of shovelling it almost as fast as I keep pushing it in the hole and the net result is that we are all pretty smelly right now! :rolleyes:

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 265
Chin Lee - 4/16/2002 10:02:36 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Getting pretty close to old Chin Lee showing up and wreaking the party. Good thing we have Yamato and the twins (Mutsu and Nagato) going to be a good fight, let me know in time to cook some pop corn.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 266
- 4/16/2002 10:31:36 PM   
juliet7bravo

 

Posts: 894
Joined: 5/30/2001
Status: offline 		Fuel...how many tankers, and what size do you have under your control?

Overall tanker availability a known for this period, ditto for Truk overall storage capacity I think, as well as Japanese oil reserves and refinery output. Should be able to figure whether he's using more fuel than would have been realistically available. Given the short prep time used to move supplies and fuel forward, and the amount of shipping movements, I'd have to suspect he's using ALOT of oil.

How much fuel total, and over what time period would you estimate you've drew from Truk?

Fuel usage by your heavy TF does sound about right. What's the fuel usage for the Yamamoto? Mutsu should burn about 150 tons per day steaming at economy speed, 1000 tons at high speed. DD 30/150 I think.

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 267
- 4/16/2002 10:36:42 PM   
ftwarrior

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: Springfield, VA
Status: offline 		Iain,

A thought on keeping US air manageable....

I know your assets are already stretched, but it's looking like US air is going to win this attritive air battle (prolonged 'till 1 Jan) under the status quo.....anything you can do to take Noumea down a notch so as to at least increase their flight times for a higher proportion of their strikes => increase fatique among their crews => take some pressure off?

The thought is that the clock seems to be ticking against IJN even on a localized basis. Would it be better to knock down their virtually exponential growth curve while its still reltively small in this region and there are still appreciable air assets to do it?

Don't have all your information in front of me, so if this makes no sense, ignore me.

Banzai

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 268
- 4/16/2002 11:12:12 PM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Hmmm.... some good questions let me take them in no particular order:

[QUOTE]I know your assets are already stretched, but it's looking like US air is going to win this attritive air battle (prolonged 'till 1 Jan) under the status quo.....anything you can do to take Noumea down a notch so as to at least increase their flight times for a higher proportion of their strikes => increase fatique among their crews => take some pressure off?[/Quote]

I have been thinking about that and have not come up with anything very attractive. The only immediate options for dealing with Noumea would be to raid it by air or sea. I'm not happy with either of these options. I have found IMHO that Japanese air power is very good against ships and downright lousy against ground installations (the exact oppositie is true of the US bombers). I can't even do substantial damage to the field at Luganville from Port Vila and its only 4 hexes away. Besides, Noumea must be home to at least 150 allied fighters now (since some raids have had 75+ escorts). Any air attack is likely to be suicidal and accomplish nothing. I proved that at Port Moresby early on when I raided it round the clock for 3 days and accomplished next to nothing besides reducing my available bomber force by about 50%.

Similarly a naval raid would likely get taken to pieces by the LBA, although I could provide LRP almost the whole way there. With a fast CL force it might be worth a try. I'll think about it.

One solution which might be attractive would be to send a raid by land down from Koumac. I have 2000 troops ashore and there is a road down to Noumea. Hmmmm.... If nothing else this would certainly pre-occupy some of the forces in New Caledonia. I think I can get some more troops ashore using the fast transports. Maybe it's time for the 2nd div recon to go for a walk. Thanks for the suggestion

Right now Koumac is actually the best protection for Port Vila and Luganville. IF the a/c devoted to pummelling it to dust were devoted elsewhere I would be in a world of hurt. In the last game turn I would not be at all surprised if a/c from Noumea flew 200 sorties agains Koumac (vs about 75 against the ships up north).

The game does model crew fatigue and I am guessing that the intensity of operations will have to slack off for a little while in about another 3 to 4 days as a/c get tired and demoralized. The flights to Luganville , Port Vila will likely suffer first as unescorted bombing missions are not popular and demoralized crews will refuse to fly them. We should also start seeing a lot "failed to find target" messages as apathy starts to set in.

The problem will be the rate at which new groups arrive to freshen the crews.

My strategy right now is to keep as many fresh a/c and crew as I can while still protecting my assets. I want to be able to be able to contest the airspace over Luganville on fairly even turns when the offensive begins in late Nov/Dec.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 269
Another thought.... - 4/17/2002 12:14:55 AM   
ftwarrior

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: Springfield, VA
Status: offline 		From my memory of the posts, the Allied transport situation should be quite thin. Where are they - where are they coming from?

Unless their actually docked in Port Moresby - which IJN can't seem to dent right know - I bet Noumea could be rapidly (considering their current tempo of air ops) strangled.

Still have any of those slow carriers around with nothing to do?
Subs around Noumea?
Yamoto and/or Mitsu and/or Nagano up for a little target practice?
With little in the way of naval assets on the other side.....easy pickings.

(in reply to IChristie)
Post #: 270
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