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Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/21/2008 6:45:23 PM   
Motomouse

 

Posts: 240
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		I played KP, BIN, BII, and BF and liked them all quite a lot.

Was reluctant to buy because of:
1. screen resolution
2. one scenario
and
3. Was interested how the areas of operation works out

On 1. I fired up Battlefront again and remembered that I like the look of the 1024x768 on my 1680x1050 widesceen. Quite readable that way (I prefer it over the 1280 res) and the scaling adds a nice filtering to the graphics. Naturally I would also prefer customizable resolutions, but only if a scaling of the units is added as well, no need for tiny counters over here.(I dont like widescreen distortion on 3d games, but dont mind using it with 2d map/units, also use it with the steel panthers games by the way)

On 2. After only 2 turns against German AI, I know that I will not regret the deal, quite interesting scenario, naturally more scenarios would be welcome (Looking forward to play pbem (where I suck), 16 turns are quite manageable for me)

On 3. I like the feel for the overall plan that is induced by the areas of operations. I think this one is done right, time will tell

bottom line: I think it is worth to get engaged with this one , further impressions will be added later
Post #: 1
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/21/2008 8:20:17 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

On 2. After only 2 turns against German AI, I know that I will not regret the deal, quite interesting scenario, naturally more scenarios would be welcome (Looking forward to play pbem (where I suck), 16 turns are quite manageable for me)

I appreciate your feedback, but can you clarify...is there only 16 turns in this one scenario?

(in reply to Motomouse)
Post #: 2
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/21/2008 11:12:20 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		Yes, 16 turns

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 3
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/21/2008 11:16:33 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Well, in that case I'll bow out and let the people that want to enjoy it enjoy it. There are a large amount of games out there that have more than 1 16 turn scenario.

I was willing to keep an open mind and for people to tell me otherwise, but I fail to see how you can get 100's of hours out of 1 16 turn scenario. You'd have to be bloody Paul Daniels.

You people enjoy.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 4
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/21/2008 11:52:46 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Everyone has their own criteria and we respect that, but scenario complexity is usually measured more like (# of units x map size x # of turns x player options). In this case, the other areas add replayability and play time.

_____________________________

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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 5
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/22/2008 1:21:58 AM   
TheWombat_matrixforum

 

Posts: 469
Joined: 8/2/2003
Status: offline 		Those 16 turns take a while; the AI processing/display certainly doesn't fly by! I kinda like the turn length because it means no getting bogged down in lots of turns where nothing happens--here, pretty much every turn is crucial. But then, I have a short attention span...ooh, look, a birdy!

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 6
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/22/2008 7:46:28 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Erik

I realise the calculation. Sure if it was 2 units per side, 16 turns, it'd be small. But regardless of that...in 16 turns (be that it takes me 10 hours or 10 days)...in 16 turns the game is over. I'm not a big fan of turns that take hour(s) to complete. I want to have my turn over in 5-10 minutes.

Meant to say...GGWitP has one scenario...but it last a whole war and how many turns and how many units? My point mostly is SSG have produced something which others have surpassed time and again and will continue to do so.

A single battle 16 turns in length is not worth £30 to me. Sorry.

As for this...
quote:


But then, I have a short attention span...ooh, look, a birdy!

That is funny.


< Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 7/22/2008 7:48:31 AM >

(in reply to TheWombat_matrixforum)
Post #: 7
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/22/2008 10:23:19 AM   
Noakesy

 

Posts: 193
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
A single battle 16 turns in length is not worth £30 to me. Sorry.
As for this...
quote:


But then, I have a short attention span...ooh, look, a birdy!

That is funny.


I think it's going to be "each to their own" and it may be that this game doesn't appeal to you. Personally I think it's very good from first impressions (I bought BF and never really go into it at all). 16 turns suits me, and maybe 1hr/turn suits me too (which I think this is probably close to). There are a number of 50 turn scenarios knocking about on the SSG forums, and they are all excellent but the problem is often to keep the momentum going (I mostly play PBEM, if you play AI then of course this is different).

Agreed, the "birdy" joke was good.

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 8
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/22/2008 10:31:16 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Of course you are right...alot of people are going to like it.

Me? I don't mind being in a game for the long haul...as long as the turns are quick. One of the things that constantly stops me getting past the tutorial in WitP is the sheer amount of time I'm going to have to dedicate to "a turn"...not the fact that the game lasts for the duration of the war.

£30 really is just too much for a 16 turn game for me...sorry...but it is. I have precious few pounds left after bills are paid.

Saying that, who's to say that I won't get £30 worth of play out of it??

I don't know. I did not like CaW one bit. The size of those ships on those maps was bordering on ridiculous. I did not get on with Korsun Pocket...although if I was brutally honest with myself, I didn't give it much of a chance because I didn't like the play style...the "mimicking" of a boardgame. But I see that's the appeal of SSG games...I even bought Korsun Pocket a second time...still didn't play it past the tutorials which made my eyes bleed if I remember.

Lets see if the forums warm up.

(in reply to Noakesy)
Post #: 9
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/22/2008 11:16:16 AM   
Noakesy

 

Posts: 193
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline 		I know what you mean - I bought WitP and gave it away, it was just way too much micromanaging and I lost interest after about 30mins. I also bought CAW and that's the first SSG game I haven't enjoyed - I love the boardgame feel and thought I'd risk it for a theatre I have nil interest in, but didn't work out right. However I really think all others (TAO, KP, AtD, BiN and BiI) are excellent, but it wasnt until I played some of them PBEM that I really enjoyed them (especially KP, couldn't be bothered with it, but now I've played it PBEM so often it's one of my most enjoyable PC/board games). PBEM has in some ways ruined PC games for me - they are for me so much more enjoyable I get bored of the AI quite quickly.

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 10
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/22/2008 5:08:45 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		What I want from a WW2 game:
  1. Combined operations (land, sea, air).
  2. The scale of WiTP without the mico-management.  I want to determine strategy and have the battles I fight derive from that and influence the strategic outcome, but I don't want to have to decide on each aircraft that needs a new wing strut in every squadron across the entire Pacific theatre!
  3. Diplomatic options.
  4. A basic economic model that has a basis in reality - I liked the Paradox WW2 game right up to the moment that conflict breaks out and then it become rather silly.
  5. The play style of Kharkov at the operational level.
  6. Modern graphics - CAW without the huge ship icons.  The CAW animated strikes were quite gripping, I thought.
  7. Support for high res screens - TOAW looks fantastic on my widescreen.

Unrealistic wish list?

(in reply to Noakesy)
Post #: 11
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/22/2008 9:36:32 PM   
hank

 

Posts: 623
Joined: 8/24/2003
From: west tn
Status: offline 		Have any of you who wanted to "like" WiTP tried Uncommon Valor?  Its suppose to be a trimmed down version of WitP.

I have it and would let go of it for someone to enjoy.  Its just not my cup of tea.  I know its a good game based on the forums but I can't get into it. 

Also, I'm going to buy K:DotD because of the future scenario's that are in the works.  I've bought other games with just one battle.  I'm hoping the AO feature will provide alternative experiences around the same battlefield.  I like BF and BiN and look forward to a new SSG game that they've settled on and plan on supplimenting with subsequent SSG produced scenarios in the future.


(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 12
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/22/2008 11:09:23 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Strangely enough, Uncommon Valor was "too lite" and I yearned for more...go figure.

If just I am that fussy, how are developers of games ever going to win by pleasing a whole world full of people with variations of my nuances!!

Poor sods!

(in reply to hank)
Post #: 13
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/23/2008 8:56:21 AM   
jmlima

 

Posts: 782
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
...£30 really is just too much for a 16 turn game for me...sorry...but it is. I have precious few pounds left after bills are paid.
...


Same here. To be quite honest I would have bought battlefront, but the price was ridiculous. Now , £30 for a scenario I'm not particulary interested, it's a big waste of money. We must be realistic , and so does SSG, their products are amongst the most expensive computer wargames I've seen. They must realize that (and this goes to Erik) alot more people will sit on the fence as this continues. Specially since each new release seems to make previous versions of their games redundant since the engine changes are not carried back (a la HPS). Why should I buy this game if in a year's time or potentially less, another will be out probably making this engine redundant and with it mine £30?

Why not offer us a special sale for a weekend or so? I bet many of us would be ready to take it on a smaller price tag. Even if the sale is only for digital download version.

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 14
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/23/2008 8:02:17 PM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline 		errr....1 scenario and only 16 turns.....that doesn't sound like much,not much at all.Infact,it sounds like an expansion.(not even)

Panzer Campaigns are really good games and focus on 1 battle,but they have smaller scenarios on different parts of the battlefield including the easy to use sub map,OOB,and scenario editor and lets not forget about the great mods.

I enjoyed Battles in Italy and Normandy,and I when I saw scenario editor I gave it a look.Why can't I just select a river a place it?There's a whole bunch of settings to put in just to place a single terrain hex.I can't imagine trying to make a whole map.

I'll pass on this one.I won't be spending my hard earned money mowing lawns and doing yard work in the hot summer sun on a 16 turn scenario.


< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 7/23/2008 8:04:19 PM >

(in reply to jmlima)
Post #: 15
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/23/2008 8:12:55 PM   
GBS

 

Posts: 903
Joined: 7/3/2002
From: Southeastern USA
Status: offline 		Well, I have been playing for three days and I am just finishing round 2. This will last long enough to satisfy my usual attention span for a new game.

(in reply to V22 Osprey)
Post #: 16
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/23/2008 8:19:11 PM   
TheHellPatrol


Posts: 1588
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		This title needs some, hell "a", small scenario. You are forced to just dive in and there's alot to do/absorb/rule changes etc. that makes it a tad overwhelming. I am tempted to play BF as a refresher but that's redundant...
I love the new changes but i don't know if i want to have to play this one 10 times...i must be getting old and my ADD has come back in my mid 40's.

_____________________________

A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau

(in reply to GBS)
Post #: 17
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/23/2008 8:26:56 PM   
Kung Karl

 

Posts: 323
Joined: 7/1/2003
Status: offline 		Smaller scenarios would be very nice indeed!

(in reply to TheHellPatrol)
Post #: 18
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/24/2008 3:42:30 AM   
Gregor_SSG


Posts: 681
Joined: 3/6/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kung Karl

Smaller scenarios would be very nice indeed!


The thing about the Kharkov battle is that it's a very dynamic situation with both sides having to conduct both offensive and defensive operations, often simultaneously. This is not all that common in WWII battles and the integrated nature of the battle means that scenarios don't really make sense. There's no point in modelling the Russian drive on Krasnograd if it isn't in peril from the German Barvenkovo/Izyum assault and from a drive south by the German forces around Kharkov. You can't allow the Germans to drive south from Kharkov unless you have resolved the fate of the massive Soviet drive on the city itself.

I would like to say that it would seem that everyone who has bought the game has found enough, or even more than enough, to keep them at the keyboard and playing the game. Those passing, sight unseen, are missing out on great game.

As for the system changes, as I said in an earlier post, this game would never have been possible using earlier game systems. We could have chosen to live in the past, and it would probably have paid better, but we want to be able to do justice to any battle, not just the easy ones.

Having said that, we are very happy with the new system and will be using for our two two games and we're already working on bring our Across the Dnepr battle across to the new system, so there will be plenty of content for those that want to enjoy it.

Gregor

_____________________________

Vice President, Strategic Studies Group
See http://www.ssg.com.au and http://www.ssg.com.au/forums/
for info and free scenarios.

(in reply to Kung Karl)
Post #: 19
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/24/2008 11:20:28 AM   
Kung Karl

 

Posts: 323
Joined: 7/1/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kung Karl

Smaller scenarios would be very nice indeed!


Having said that, we are very happy with the new system and will be using for our two two games and we're already working on bring our Across the Dnepr battle across to the new system, so there will be plenty of content for those that want to enjoy it.

Gregor


Will Across the Dnepr be a free addon?

(in reply to Gregor_SSG)
Post #: 20
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/24/2008 1:04:08 PM   
Clipper1968


Posts: 445
Joined: 7/22/2004
From: LA, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kung Karl
Will Across the Dnepr be a free addon?



You can find a screenshot for the upcoming AtD add-on in the addenum manual where it is stated the previous version owner will be eligible to a discount for the new one. If true, seems to be a fair deal for me. That future add-on that was one of my favourite DB series scenario has definitively convinced me to give it a go.

BTW there are small enhancements in K:DotD that greatly improves the gameplay. Good job.
Keep it going with tons of add-on or new opus and you will make me an happy man.
Thanks SSG.

Looking forward to put my hands on the AtD MkII now; before next Christmas hopefully...


_____________________________

"s'instruire pour vaincre"

(in reply to Kung Karl)
Post #: 21
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/24/2008 1:20:47 PM   
jmlima

 

Posts: 782
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pumba1968

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kung Karl
Will Across the Dnepr be a free addon?



You can find a screenshot for the upcoming AtD add-on in the addenum manual where it is stated the previous version owner will be eligible to a discount for the new one. If true, seems to be a fair deal for me. That future add-on that was one of my favourite DB series scenario has definitively convinced me to give it a go....


So, after splashing £30 on a 16 turn scenario, we are supposed to spend what, say £15 , on another scenario?...

Well, if that's the case...

(in reply to Clipper1968)
Post #: 22
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/24/2008 2:13:43 PM   
Waffenamt

 

Posts: 120
Joined: 11/18/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline 		... and what about people, like myself, who already purchased the AtD add-on for DB? Is it that major of a port? I'm interested but want to see for myself that there will be more than 2 battles supported by Kharkov, and in a reasonable manner. Like - I've heard mention that the Battlefront scenarios would be ported at some time. Will that also cost? I definitely will not purchase before the AI documentation reaches those who can begin making and releasing more scenarios for this. If this turns out to be a winner I'll definitely back it and splash out, but I'm not yet convinced - however much I would like to be.

Regards,


(in reply to jmlima)
Post #: 23
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/24/2008 4:20:07 PM   
Clipper1968


Posts: 445
Joined: 7/22/2004
From: LA, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pumba1968

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kung Karl
Will Across the Dnepr be a free addon?



You can find a screenshot for the upcoming AtD add-on in the addenum manual where it is stated the previous version owner will be eligible to a discount for the new one. If true, seems to be a fair deal for me. That future add-on that was one of my favourite DB series scenario has definitively convinced me to give it a go....


So, after splashing £30 on a 16 turn scenario, we are supposed to spend what, say £15 , on another scenario?...

Well, if that's the case...



I assume that nobody has put a gun on your head enforcing you to purchase their game. Everyone is making their own choice based on different criteria...That's all the way it is, c'est la vie... What's wrong with that?

Well, that being said, I would have also appreciated more scenario. But as a PBEM player, every game is developing in a different way depending on your opponent. So If I am able to enjoy like +20 PBEM games in the future, K.DotD is worth my money. Moreover I am relying on the community to provide me with additional scenario, with or without AI...Hope I will not be disappointed.

Now back to the game.
I have a question regarding the heavy artillery button that is supposed to highlight those units on the map.
Where is it as I can only see the classical artillery button on the bottom panel? At least it is stated in the manual or did I miss something?

Thanks.


_____________________________

"s'instruire pour vaincre"

(in reply to jmlima)
Post #: 24
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/24/2008 4:27:52 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Seems a recent thing this..."relying" on modders to provide meat.

Once upon a time, modders used to provide longevity to already meaty and great games...now it seems its the done thing...release a sparse game and give other people the tools to build up your trade and make it successful (this isn't directed at SSG specifically...they certainly aren't the only ones doing it).

As everyone else here...I remember the days when SSG meant quality and quantity.

Sorry....I have posted here again. I promise, this is my last post in the forum.

Apologies to all who are trying to enjoy the game and just reading my rubbish, chip on shoulder complaints.

(in reply to Clipper1968)
Post #: 25
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/24/2008 7:22:40 PM   
V22 Osprey


Posts: 1593
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Corona, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pumba1968

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kung Karl
Will Across the Dnepr be a free addon?



You can find a screenshot for the upcoming AtD add-on in the addenum manual where it is stated the previous version owner will be eligible to a discount for the new one. If true, seems to be a fair deal for me. That future add-on that was one of my favourite DB series scenario has definitively convinced me to give it a go....


So, after splashing £30 on a 16 turn scenario, we are supposed to spend what, say £15 , on another scenario?...

Well, if that's the case...



Are you serious?SSG should at least give us 2 scenarios if you are going to charge the full game price.

(in reply to jmlima)
Post #: 26
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/24/2008 9:41:39 PM   
jmlima

 

Posts: 782
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pumba1968
...

I assume that nobody has put a gun on your head enforcing you to purchase their game. Everyone is making their own choice based on different criteria...That's all the way it is, c'est la vie... What's wrong with that?
...


Absolutely nothing. I've seen people queuing to receive a free plastic carrier bag. Each one to it's business.

Having said that, in the same way that you can be delighted to pay that amount of money for the 2 scenarios, well for one , since the other is still in the works, I'm in my own right to think that, for me, it's a bad decision and to put my money elsewhere.

The only people that must take conclusions from these conversations and from their sales figures are SSG and Matrix.

(in reply to Clipper1968)
Post #: 27
RE: Impressions after Tutorial & 2 Turns - 7/24/2008 9:42:33 PM   
jmlima

 

Posts: 782
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey


quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pumba1968

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kung Karl
Will Across the Dnepr be a free addon?



You can find a screenshot for the upcoming AtD add-on in the addenum manual where it is stated the previous version owner will be eligible to a discount for the new one. If true, seems to be a fair deal for me. That future add-on that was one of my favourite DB series scenario has definitively convinced me to give it a go....


So, after splashing £30 on a 16 turn scenario, we are supposed to spend what, say £15 , on another scenario?...

Well, if that's the case...



Are you serious?SSG should at least give us 2 scenarios if you are going to charge the full game price.



I was just assuming from what was said previously, until SSG says something , nobody knows anything.

(in reply to V22 Osprey)
Post #: 28
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