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WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/14/2008 5:38:17 PM

marcbarker

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quote:
ORIGINAL: barker so really west front will not have the overhaul until spring next year basically

quote:

2010, 2011ish.

Jason Petho

see guys we lost out...if you are not part of the in crowd you get hosed....i think this pre release update crap is garbbage...matrix is a good company and this kind of stuff should not be tolerated on release of software. Granted they did a bang up job getting new rules in....thanks but is that worth the cost of the bundle for 1 functional game in a set packaged together?

I think Matrix really need to look at the release schedule of the updates and post them or just not offer the software till it is ready...what a load

Post #: 1

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/14/2008 6:04:20 PM

Jason Petho

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What are you on about?

1. We, the Campaign Series Legion and BETA Brigade, are supporting the game to the fullest. The game has been considerably expanded and enhanced and belittling those efforts with a statement like...

quote:

thanks but is that worth the cost of the bundle for 1 functional game in a set packaged together

is not only disrespectful to their efforts, it is also absolutely uncalled for.

2. We, the Campaign Series Legion and BETA Brigade, are not fulltime employees of Matrix Games and are doing this for the passion of the game. Guess what, we have real lives that take precedent over the Campaign Series; spouces, children, day jobs (and in my case a second job), etc. These additions and enhancements take a vast amount of time to complete, hence the long, long delay in releasing 1.03 and the extended release for the 1.05 UPDATE.

3. We, the Campaign Series Legion and BETA Brigade, are working on additional projects besides John Tiller's Campaign Series and with the 1.04 UPDATE release, those projects will have priority on what is being worked on, an additional reason for the delay for the 1.05 UDPATE.

Jason Petho

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Post #: 2

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/14/2008 6:11:53 PM

Jason Petho

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And, in case you missed it, here are the additional features of Rising Sun and West Front, which do NOT include what has been added post 1.01! No support.

quote:

West Front
Fully functional Map, OOB and Scenario Editors!
176 Scenarios!
12 Linked Campaigns!

New Scenarios:
1. Indicison at Brunete
2. In the Virgin�s name
3. Puerto Escudo
4. The Raid
5. Habbaniya
6. Impregnable
7. Old and new
8. "The Widower"
9. Blunting the Sword
10. Pour l'Honneur
11. Ras El Madaur
12. Fight for the Rubble
13. Towards Futa Pass
14. Unexpected
15. The Ghost Division
16. The first attack
17. Through the eye of the needle
18. Holding The Line
19. Looking for trouble
20. The Relief of Bastogne
21. First Strike Towards Butgenbach
22. If At First You Don't Succeed....
23. Hugh is Coming
24. A Christmas Present for the 101st
25. Hitler's Last Gamble
26. Drive to Bastogne
27. Drive Like Hell
28. Never a Sure Thing
29. A Surprise for Patton's Best
30. Return to Stavelot
31. Under Cover of Darkness

New Countries:
Bulgaria
Nationalist Spain
Republican Spain
Croatia
Iran
Iraq
Albania
Brazil
Ethiopia
Allied Soviets
Axis Soviets

New Units Types:
Many new armour, artillery, and infantry and other units for Axis and Allies including captured armour, artillery and vehicles.
Pack Animals
Captured Equipment
New Aircraft types
Large AA platforms, large artillery as the Karl Morser
Panzerfaust Squad
Observation Aircraft for Russians, Germans, Americans and British

Changes:
OOB editor has been expanded from 1930-1953.
OOB editor has been expanded to add new Nation slots
OOB structures have been added for the Axis forces in the Mediterranean, Balkans and Africa.
OOB for the Spanish Civil War 1936-39
OOB for the Italian Invasion of Ethiopia 1935-36
A Map editor that you can create maps from all five climate zones (NEW, MED, DES, TRO and TEM)
Horses can be moved unmounted!
Mounted Cavalry and motorcyclists can fire on the move!

Rising Sun

Fully functional Map, OOB and Scenario Editors!
60 Scenarios!
6 Linked Campaigns!

New Scenarios:
1. Long Son Eastern Advance (French vs Japanese)
2. Another Page for the History Books (French vs Japanese)
3. Yang Dang Khum (French vs Thai)

New Countries:
French Indochina
Netherlands East Indies
Thailand
Nationalist China (KTM)
Allied Communist China
Axis Communist China
Axis Soviet Union
Allied Soviet Union

New Units Types:

Many new armour, artillery, and infantry and other units for Axis and Allies including captured armour, artillery and vehicles.
Trains for Chinese, Japanese, French and Russians
Ship types; Sampans, Junks, Gunboats, River Patrol Ships
Pack Animals
Observation Aircraft (Piper Cub) for Americans and British

Changes:
OOB editor has been expanded from 1930-1953.
OOB structures have been added for the Japanese forces in China and the Southern Army in 1941-42.
A Map editor that you can create maps from all five climate zones (NEW, MED, DES, TRO and TEM)
Horses can be moved unmounted!
Mounted Cavalry and motorcyclists can fire on the move!

< Message edited by Jason Petho -- 8/14/2008 6:12:00 PM >

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Post #: 3

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/14/2008 6:15:55 PM

marcbarker

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Well Jason when I first joined this I thought you were an employee of Matrix....because of the encryption and such...so this is a user board and not a Matrix games support board interesting

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Post #: 4

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/14/2008 7:41:33 PM

Miamieagle

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I think you have been unfair. Yes! the Patchest have been slow comming and not perfect but they sure have improved the game. I believe there where some upgrading�to the Western Front OOB units with Patch 103. As a matter of fact the only Edition that has not been mprove�significantly in the Rising Sun. You got a bunch of new Dynamic campaigns for it and many new improve scenerious plus a whole new amd improve OOB units. So we can not�say the Western Front has been forgotten!

Thats a lot more than the Rising Sun has ever receive in any one Patch. Yes I beleve that will change in the future. So far I�m happy with what I have receive and all I will say is keep bringing it on.

Thank you!

< Message edited by Miamieagle -- 8/14/2008 7:44:19 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 2:01:45 AM

Fierce

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Consider the alternative, no support, updates, bug fixes or scenarios and the game left to die on the vine. Played by people using old computers running Win98 until they memorize each and every scenario. Hmmm, I'll take the bugs any day as long as they're being worked on. That's why I jumped back in, I saw people actually trying to improve it and that's worth it.

Dave

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Post #: 6

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 2:16:42 AM

marcbarker

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the reason it died was the inception of state of the art 1st person shooters...i still have my old 5 1/4 shiloh cheesy cgi but fun....great naval battles....ssi the original Silent Hunter...destroyer.....bulge...third reich...it is not the fact that user are supporting it it is the fact it was not stated on the product...now I have 2 copies of the same game for 2 different systems. With the old encrypt you can do the same thing and incorporate marines in west front and move the germans to the rising sun engine , etc. Craig Foster still has his site active for the talonsoft game...with quite a few dcg's lcg's and scenarios.....was a bang user site. What has happened is that user unilaterally said no more modding for particular files so you can not add what you want. The reason I bought this game was it said Vista compatible. well it started up yes, playability tough at times because of crashes. Magically through a select few non paid people of matrix decides for a company product that the end user cannot do this or that. There is something wrong woth that. I do appreciate all the work placed in this update but you have no flexibility on unit creation or weapon invention for your personal use. Granted when I bought this game it was a bit late, because I was wary of the initial release. Alot of what was created was being worked on awhile back (years). But I paid for a game I already had and modded by users that decide for me how I want this game to react. The attraction to these games is playability, with several bugs still in the gaming system and won't be worked out till 2010 or 2011 that is a problem. Maybe Matrix should have released one game a ta time. with the same engine. Just a thought

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Post #: 7

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 4:36:25 AM

Jason Petho

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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barker
What has happened is that user unilaterally said no more modding for particular files so you can not add what you want.

Wrong.

You are still able to mod all you want.

Only two files, of the thousands, are required to be posted on the forum to be encrypted.

Jason Petho

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Post #: 8

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 11:16:55 AM

marcbarker

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yes i know this but you are a user not an employee that drives and says what goes in a game......a user

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Post #: 9

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 12:08:48 PM

Huib

Posts: 585
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From: Nederland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

yes i know this but you are a user not an employee that drives and says what goes in a game......a user

What difference does that make? The 'users' that know the game better than anybody on these forums are in charge. Nothing wrong with that. If Jason or me were paid by Matrix, we would all of a sudden be 'employees' and the quality would be better? That would benefit only our wallets but has nothing, I repeat nothing to do with the quality of the game's updates and patches.

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Post #: 10

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 12:24:57 PM

marcbarker

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I really do suppoort individual devloping. I donate to user groups etc. The Caviat is they do not do it under the guise of a company. Then that user group decides what is official in a service pack or update is? All I am saying it need to be stated as such this is a total user thing and not a company thing. What if Matrix decides they come out with their own update then all those user updates are hosed. That is the real problem. I think that The beta brigade and such should do what they are doing but not under the guise of this or any other company. Any files that come stock should remain that way.....remember when the Hot War group came out with allied germans and enemy russians where eastern block went against NATO. that was in the talonsoft package but it requred a different install and did not interfere with the game. The file structure still remained open not CLOSED off. They knew what they were doing when it came to telling the difference between the game and an offboard update.

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Post #: 11

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 12:58:58 PM

marcbarker

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Hot War...

...is an unofficial, fan designed mod for Talonsoft's West Front which allows owners of West Front, WF BP1 and EF II to fight battles between the USSR and the US, UK and Germany in 1945.�

"Hot War: 1945" is a mod for West Front that allows players to fight USSR vs. US, UK and Allied (West) Germany!!! It is a separate install of WF and requires EF II also. Version 1.01 works with all WF v1.05 packages (including WF, WF Elite, EIF and WIF). It does require the Battle Pack CD's (or the later bundles like WF Elite, etc) to run certain scenarios.

It comes with ELEVEN scenarios covering the initial Soviet assault on the West and their subsequent exploitation of their breakthrough, the desperate German/American defense of Bastogne, the bloody Soviet airdrop on Arnhem, the Anglo-French defense of Iran and, of course, the American invasion of Northern Germany.

It now includes all the USMC and other new units from Rising Sun!!!

Several pesky bugs have been fixed and I think (hope?) it is now COMPLETELY bug free.

It now works with WF v1.05 and thus all later bundles.

The artwork has been updated as appropriate.

http://redarrowproductions.com/Guild.htm

< Message edited by barker -- 8/15/2008 1:04:59 PM >

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Post #: 12

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 2:12:07 PM

Jason Petho

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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

Hot War...
...is an unofficial, fan designed mod for Talonsoft's West Front which allows owners of West Front, WF BP1 and EF II to fight battles between the USSR and the US, UK and Germany in 1945.�

http://redarrowproductions.com/Guild.htm

Just so other readers are not confused, this will NOT work with John Tiller's Campaign Series.

Additionally, if you wish to to play this type of scenario, there is ** Bootcamp 11 in West Front available will allow you to do so. The Order of Battles for the US and the Soviets have been extended to 1953 so if you want, you can create your own scenarios!

The U.S. Marines have been included in West Front since the 1.02 UPDATE.

Jason Petho

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Post #: 13

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 2:26:16 PM

marcbarker

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Go to the main page of that and read what was and had been developed for these games. I have downloaded the scenarios and ran them in CS on my XP and it wors fine. The reason it won't work is that you have not opened the files that allow to allow additions. Remeber these are a USER update. Look at the site and there are disclaimers all over the place about these are not talonsoft and user install at their own peril. Does Matrix have the same point of view? I wish to hear from Matrix on this issue. Granted Jason you have done some good work. Thanks.....but I don't want my purchase to fall into an unsupported thing with a third party installation.

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Post #: 14

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 2:53:12 PM

Jason Petho

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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

Go to the main page of that and read what was and had been developed for these games. I have downloaded the scenarios and ran them in CS on my XP and it wors fine. The reason it won't work is that you have not opened the files that allow to allow additions. Remeber these are a USER update. Look at the site and there are disclaimers all over the place about these are not talonsoft and user install at their own peril.

The reason it doesn't work is that it is designed for the Talonsoft version.

Want to recreate some Hot War 1945 battles? Look in the OOB editor, all the units required are there.

Keep in mind, Craig has not added to his design since April 2001.

quote:

ORIGINAL: barker
Does Matrix have the same point of view? I wish to hear from Matrix on this issue.

You should post in the main Matrix forum then, that is where the Matrix employee's are most likely to find your questions.

Many of the games here have private development teams, where Matrix provides commercial, logistical

quote:

ORIGINAL: barker
Granted Jason you have done some good work. Thanks.....but I don't want my purchase to fall into an unsupported thing with a third party installation.

Matrix stands behind the work that the Campaign Series Legion and the BETA Brigade are doing. These are official Matrix updates, compiled by Matrix and hosted by Matrix. We do the grunt work.

Jason Petho

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RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 3:23:28 PM

simovitch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barker
I don't want my purchase to fall into an unsupported thing with a third party installation.

Where do you get the idea that a patch installer that is compiled, announced, and made available for download by Matrix is not officially "supported" by Matrix?

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Post #: 16

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 3:54:41 PM

marcbarker

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They need to tout that this is a user generated update and not developed by Matrix is all I am saying. I have ran into instances where if you read the EULA's those gurantees are void if you install from a third party and thus will not be supported. This is a legitimate question...if a User defines an update does that user define how files should be or not be encrypted? That is total problem a User not Matrix encrytped file structure that is crucial to futurre development for other users. That was wrong in doing that. How many packages sold total do PBEM or solitaire? that is what the problems is. A few of the in crowd from the user area defines what I or we as a community should and should not do....where is the problem you ask? it is the fact that 1 person decided to do that and not the company that sells the product...that blows and you know it.

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Post #: 17

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 3:57:47 PM

Jason Petho

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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barker
it is the fact that 1 person decided to do that and not the company that sells the product.

It was a team desicion and is supported by Matrix.

Jason Petho

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RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 4:10:39 PM

marcbarker

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Matrix should post this on their product page and not have to find out about this after i purchsed it. That my freind is wrong. That was one of the reason I purchased this crap. I have been very loyal to matrix and have purchased well in excess of 2k to their titles. I will be purchasing my other software needs from somewhere else and will do everything at my disposal to voice why you have distanced this customer away from them. You could edit until 1.02 after 1.02 you can not edit. Hell to ensure I won't do PBEM blacklist my IP email etc. and shoot me the encryption. Make sure I get no more updates, blact my seriel number, that is fine. But you as 1 person should not have done this, as a developer you should not have done this, as a customer you should not have done. As I said 1 person has the right to say what I want to include. WRONG

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Post #: 19

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 4:10:42 PM

1925frank

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If I understand barker correctly, his concern is Matrix owns the game, but a small group of fans have usurped or pirated the game and are calling the shots for everyone else and, apparently, not necessarily with Matrix's permission.

I have no idea what the contractual arrangements are, but if barker's scenario is correct, I'm fairly certain Matrix would be hitting Jason and company with restraining orders. My impression is Matrix owns the rights to the game, and Matrix hired Jason to support it, and the game is popular enough that other people are willing to help Jason. Everything Jason does is with Matrix's approval.

If some other fans wanted to call the shots, they'd have to purchase the rights to the game, persuade Matrix to get rid of Jason and to hire them to support the game, or persuade Jason to become part of Jason's team.

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Post #: 20

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 4:23:09 PM

marcbarker

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Jason stated he is not a paid nor an employee of matrix. So he is setting the stage as a user for everyone else. I should set the stage for myself on how I use this game not a group of users that is not Matrix Employees

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Post #: 21

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 4:27:33 PM

Jason Petho

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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

I should set the stage for myself on how I use this game not a group of users that is not Matrix Employees

Install the 1.02 UPDATE on your machine and you are free to do just that.

Jason Petho

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Post #: 22

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 4:59:53 PM

1925frank

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

Jason stated he is not a paid nor an employee of matrix. So he is setting the stage as a user for everyone else. I should set the stage for myself on how I use this game not a group of users that is not Matrix Employees

The earlier post said Jason was not a full-time employee. He might be a part-time employee, or he might be an independent contractor and not an "employee" at all.

If I thought one group of fans was being given preferential treatment over another, I'd be upset too. Whatever the arrangement, I'm fairly certain Jason is not standing on the same footing as you or me with respect to Matrix. If you really think Jason is pirating the game without Matrix's approval, you can contact Matrix, and I'm fairly sure they will tell you Jason is their man.

My point is that if you have concerns, you're posting them in the wrong spot. Even here, someone from Matrix may contact you and reassure you. I wouldn't, however, expect Matrix or Jason to disclose the nature of the arrangement.

I don't think anyone is being excluded. You can post what you want here. Matrix is responsive as far as I can tell. I wouldn't expect Matrix to meet everyone's request, and I would anticipate time and resources would limit what could be implemented and how quickly they could be implemented.

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Post #: 23

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 5:38:37 PM

marcbarker

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Why should I as a consumer have to downgrade my purchase to keep in line with the games design. Now you as an individual syas you have now limited my fully purchased update. You not Matrix.....ironic

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Post #: 24

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 5:44:04 PM

Jason Petho

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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

Why should I as a consumer have to downgrade my purchase to keep in line with the games design. Now you as an individual syas you have now limited my fully purchased update. You not Matrix.....ironic

Why would you want to upgrade when you aren't happy with the result and feel you can do better yourself?

Jason Petho

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Post #: 25

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 5:47:49 PM

marcbarker

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I just sent this to Matrix and requested a refund:

I wish to have a refund for my purchase of JTCS. I purchased under the understanding that this was like the talonsoft game. It is not. Jason Petho has encrypted files that when installed allows for nothing but his version of stuff to be included. He did this in 1.03 not 1.02 update. Now my choice is to stay with a less of a product then originally bought or ask for a refund. All this could have been resolved by not encrypting those public files as the game was intended.
Marc Barker
843-534-3245

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Post #: 26

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 5:49:46 PM

Jason Petho

Posts: 15009
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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

I just sent this to Matrix and requested a refund:

I wish to have a refund for my purchase of JTCS. I purchased under the understanding that this was like the talonsoft game. It is not. Jason Petho has encrypted files that when installed allows for nothing but his version of stuff to be included. He did this in 1.03 not 1.02 update. Now my choice is to stay with a less of a product then originally bought or ask for a refund. All this could have been resolved by not encrypting those public files as the game was intended.
Marc Barker
843-534-3245

Actually, the original files were also encrypted.

It was the work of a third party that provided the decryption and new encryption tools.

Jason Petho

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Post #: 27

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 5:51:01 PM

marcbarker

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The point is you allowed only your mods to be included in my purchase

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Post #: 28

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 5:51:42 PM

Jason Petho

Posts: 15009
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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

The point is you allowed only your mods to be included in my purchase

They are official updates, not mods.

Jason Petho

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Post #: 29

RE: WEST FRONT update 2010-2011 - 8/15/2008 5:55:43 PM

marcbarker

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Again...update to a modded weapons file platoon file that we as a user could do....but in your capacity of I don't know what has said No can't do that because of some PBEM cheating issues. That is not me nor some others that support this game by our purchase thereby supporting Matrix. You could supply the those files to those that wish it. Then you could be free of this whole ordeal

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Post #: 30