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Hi. New member here! - 8/20/2008 11:14:05 PM

jdhalfrack

Posts: 293
Joined: 10/22/2007
From: Springfield, IL
Status: offline

Hi, I'm a new member, and this site looks really neat!

Oh wait... no I'm not... It just seems like it.

Well, good news ladies and gentlemen... SCHOOL HAS STARTED. Why should you care? Because what better way to kill free time in school then working on a Max FB Database Editor. Am I right?!

But I need your help.

First, you have to understand that I am going to start it over from scratch. Why, you ask? Because while I was working over on the Madden MOD for a while (which I DO still help with), I have learned SO MUCH MORE programming than I ever thought I would. So, I am going to make a much more stable and hopefully user-friendly (not the the previous versions weren't) version of the editor.

Second, I need to know what the latest version/patch of Maximum Football is.

Third, I would like some league files from some of you from the latest patch. This will make my life easier. The longer along you are, the better.

Fourth, I need your patience. I want to make a good editor that has all the features of before PLUS the new ones I had started t implement before I took a break. This will take some time, though. I joined this site in late October of last year. My goal is to have a working, awesome, 100% completed, bad ass, nothing beats it editor by the end of THIS October (yikes! that's only two months!).

Suggestions and requests are ALWAYS welcome but not always feasible. Please post any in this thread.

WELCOME BACK, ME!

JD

EDIT: Here is the current suggestion list:

- make it compatible with VISTA
- make it possible to save edits in a file
- add salary cap features
- export/import players, teams, STATS, etc...

< Message edited by jdhalfrack -- 8/23/2008 3:18:07 AM >

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Latest Max FB Databse Editor: Max FB Database Editor (v 1.7.0)

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RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/20/2008 11:21:36 PM

redwolf1

Posts: 366
Joined: 5/13/2005
From: Maple Ridge, B.C., Canada
Status: offline

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1if9kLJpWw

...guess who's back...back again...

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RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/20/2008 11:33:39 PM

therhino

Posts: 844
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline

Welcome back JD! My only request is if you could get it to work on all Vista's. Unfortunately your current editor doesn't work on my machine.

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RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/21/2008 1:23:48 AM

dreamtheatervt

Posts: 483
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Virginia
Status: offline

Welcome back! I have a request as well - do you think it would be possible to save edits in a file, so if I make a randomizer again, instead of having everyone reput in my data manually, all they would have to do is load up my file (like an excel file or even a comma separated text file)?

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Post #: 4

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/21/2008 1:40:14 AM

jdhalfrack

Posts: 293
Joined: 10/22/2007
From: Springfield, IL
Status: offline

quote:

My only request is if you could get it to work on all Vista's. Unfortunately your current editor doesn't work on my machine.

This should be no problem now. I have moved to using nothing but VB.NET, which should be completely compatible with VISTA.

quote:

...do you think it would be possible to save edits in a file, so if I make a randomizer again, instead of having everyone reput in my data manually, all they would have to do is load up my file

Duh. This almost seems too obvious that I am surprised I hadn't thought of it yet. Good suggestion!

I will add these to my list!

JD

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Post #: 5

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/21/2008 1:44:32 AM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline

Nice to see you back again Bro,
cant wait for the new editor,

having the "Salary tab" functional would be nice if you can manage that
yep I know it aint relevant to the game but would be easier as a League GM to access from your editor.

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Post #: 6

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/21/2008 1:52:01 AM

garysorrell

Posts: 2176
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline

Very good to see you back JD. Im pretty sure the latest version of Max is 2.2.70.

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Post #: 7

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/21/2008 9:58:34 AM

Magnum357

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline

I hope you guys don't mind me interupting, but I would like to reintroduce myself aswell. For the past 7 or 8 monthis, I have not been able to play Maximum Football because I couldn't get it to work on Windows 98. Fortunetly, with the Windows Script 5.6 fix, I'm up and running on at least one computer.

But unfortunetly aswell, I have been only playing version 1 of the game (I have not tested Windows 98 with Version 2 of Maximum Football yet).

I started working on some utilites in the past, most noteably on www.fbmax.com my "DataConstant" Utility, and I have some ideas for additional Utilites aswell so you may see me on these boards more often now and I may release more utilites if I got time.

(in reply to garysorrell)

Post #: 8

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/21/2008 6:27:59 PM

Tullius

Posts: 1174
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: Saxony (Germany)
Status: offline

@ Magnum357

Even when you can not run the latest version (2.2) i would recommend that you try to install the files. The maindatabase structure has been changed, some addtional files are now added, e.g. so you have now for every league a simdat.

When you have problems installing the new version (which is free) then i can you send you some mdb-files.

< Message edited by Tullius -- 8/21/2008 8:16:59 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/21/2008 9:08:21 PM

Magnum357

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline

Tullius

Noted, and thanks for the info. I plan to actually install version 2.2 soon, but in case version 2.2 doesn't work on my Windows 98 OS (David made it clear that he won't support 98 anymore) then I will just work with Version 1 of the game for those who won't or couldn't upgrade to version 2. I might be one of the few left that actually plays version 1.3176 but I could give technical support and utilites to those that still use Version 1. I have played a lot of Version 1 and know the Play Editor quite well to get around the bugs. Compared to Sierra's Football Pro 99, version 1.3176 is still more playable.

As for old Utilities, I know I have a few of my old Utility Source codes somewhere, and if I get version 2.2 working, I will try to convert them to the new version. Is the Database structure much different then Version 1? Does is still use Microsoft Access?

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Post #: 10

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/21/2008 9:31:58 PM

Tullius

Posts: 1174
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: Saxony (Germany)
Status: offline

The game uses still Microsoft Access but maybe a newer version (= not more Access 97). When i recall some notes correct the limit is now 2 GB. In the Maindata.mdb some tables are deleted or inserted so the databases of version 1 and version 2 are a little different but the basic structure is the same.

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Post #: 11

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/23/2008 2:23:00 AM

jdhalfrack

Posts: 293
Joined: 10/22/2007
From: Springfield, IL
Status: offline

Okay, as part of my new editor, I have given users the ability to "manipulate" the "OVERALL" rating formulas. Basically, I just allow users to manipulate the weighting of each skill.

However, I am attaching a spreadsheet ( Max FB Overall Ratings Spreadheet) with the default formulas for you to experiment with. The formulas are based off of the Madden rating formulas (which your truly finally cracked over at Football-Freaks.com). The numbers that are bolded are the skills that actually affect OVERALL ratings. For example, Kick Strength for a QB will not affect the OVERALL rating of the QB.

To get the full effect, unhide all cells. That will give you the option to see the full formula.

Let me know what you think after you put in some values to test. If you don't like a certain result, post the skill ratings and overall rating and tell me why you think it should be different.

JD

< Message edited by jdhalfrack -- 8/23/2008 2:25:47 AM >

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RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/23/2008 3:00:43 AM

mbsports

Posts: 275
Joined: 1/7/2007
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Sounds awesome to me JD - any chance we might be able to export the ovr. along with the other rates and maybe even stats to a .xls, .csv or some other friendly formation?

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Post #: 13

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/23/2008 3:17:24 AM

jdhalfrack

Posts: 293
Joined: 10/22/2007
From: Springfield, IL
Status: offline

quote:

....along with the other rates and maybe even stats to a .xls, .csv or some other friendly formation?

This has always been a goal of mine. However, stats exporting/editing will be the last thing I tackle because for some reason, David has decided to store the stats in the most user UNfriendly way ever. But yes, it is on the list for the new editor.

JD

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Post #: 14

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/23/2008 12:17:47 PM

Tullius

Posts: 1174
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: Saxony (Germany)
Status: offline

Here is the formula the game uses to fill the depth chart. An screen is as example added:

QB = (PSS + PSA + INT + SPD + AGL + STR + END + DIS + HND) + Profile (PR1 + PR2)
HB = (SPD + AGL + STR + INT + END + DIS + BLK + CAT + HND) + Profile (PR1 + PR2)
FB = (SPD + AGL + STR + INT + END + DIS + BLK + CAT + HND) + Profile (PR1 + PR2)
WR = (SPD + CAT + INT + AGL + STR + END +DIS + HND) + Profile (PR1 + PR2)
TE/SB = (SPD + CAT + AGL + STR + INT + END + DIS + BLK + HND) + Profile (PR1 + PR2)
OT = (SPD + AGL + STR + INT + END + DIS + BLK) + Profile (PR1 + PR2)
OG = (SPD + AGL + STR + INT + END + DIS + BLK) + Profile (PR1 + PR2)
CT = (SPD + AGL + STR + INT + END + DIS + BLK)+ Profile (PR1 + PR2)
DE = (SPD + AGL + STR + INT + END + DIS + BLA) + Profile (PR1 + PR2)
DT = (SPD + AGL + STR + INT + END + DIS + BLA) + Profile (PR1 + PR2)
LB (ILB, MLB) = (SPD + COV + AGL + STR + INT + END + DIS + CAT + BLA) + Profile (PR1 + PR2)
DB (DB, CB,S) = (SPD + COV + AGL + STR + INT + END + DIS + CAT + BLA) + Profile (PR1 + PR2)
K/P = (KST + KAC) + Profile (PR1 + PR2)
KR = (SPD + AGL + HND + INT + END + DIS + CAT) + Profile (PR1 + PR2)

A profile looks so

quote:

Maximum-Football Team Profile File
Rounds:50
RosterSize:45
TeamID;Rnd;Pos;Criteria 1;Criteria 2
2;1;LB;Speed;Agility
2;2;LB;Block Avoidance;Strength
2;3;LB;Speed;Block Avoidance
2;4;DB;Speed;Coverage
2;5;DB;Speed;Strength
2;6;DB;Speed;Coverage
2;7;DL;Speed;Block Avoidance
2;8;DL;Strength;Block Avoidance
2;9;QB;Intelligence;Pass Accuracy
2;10;OL;Blocking;Strength
2;11;OL;Blocking;Strength
2;12;LB;Speed;Block Avoidance
2;13;DL;Block Avoidance;Strength
2;14;DB;Speed;Coverage
2;15;WR;Speed;Catching
2;16;DL;Speed;Block Avoidance
2;17;RB;Speed;Agility
2;18;RB;Strength;Blocking
2;19;TE;Speed;Blocking
2;20;WR;Speed;Catching
etc ...

(Rounds = 50) = 50 round draft

2;20;WR;Speed;Catching
Team ID; List Nr; Position; PR1; PR 2

BTW This example shows that a FB can replace a TE.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Tullius -- 8/23/2008 1:14:34 PM >

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Post #: 15

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/23/2008 12:54:40 PM

jdhalfrack

Posts: 293
Joined: 10/22/2007
From: Springfield, IL
Status: offline

Oh yeah, I think I remember David making some sort of attempt at this, but I forgot that he did. However, I'm not sure that this really makes sense to me...

I don't like the way that each rating has the same "weight" in determining the effectiveness of a player. For example, PSS and PSA on a HB/FB/WR should barely be included (if at all). It should not be on the same level as SPD and HND. I know you can "double" or even "triple" the weighting of some skills by using the Profile, but even then, it still seems a little too close.

But, thanks for that list. This will help me out still.

JD

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Post #: 16

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/23/2008 1:18:29 PM

Tullius

Posts: 1174
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: Saxony (Germany)
Status: offline

The PSS/PSA in the RB/ WR fields were a mistake by me. I have now corrected this.

I agree that the game formula is not the ideal solution. I think DW looked at the Sierra FPS system which used in FPS98 a similar formula. But it shows the way the game AI uses it.

IMO even Weight and Height should be included in a better system. Weight affects blocking and Height affects catching.

< Message edited by Tullius -- 8/23/2008 1:19:46 PM >

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Post #: 17

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/23/2008 2:34:33 PM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
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quote:

IMO even Weight and Height should be included in a better system. Weight affects blocking and Height affects catching.

Most definately
also weight at the higher end also affects speed
I've yet to find anyone who's 320 lbs who can sprint like I can at 170 lb

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RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/23/2008 2:44:25 PM

Tullius

Posts: 1174
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: Saxony (Germany)
Status: offline

quote:

Most definately
also weight at the higher end also affects speed

This is true. But this must be considered when ratings for players are created.
(In FPS98 weight and height were only "Show" ratings.

< Message edited by Tullius -- 8/23/2008 2:45:04 PM >

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Post #: 19

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/23/2008 5:42:54 PM

jdhalfrack

Posts: 293
Joined: 10/22/2007
From: Springfield, IL
Status: offline

quote:

IMO even Weight and Height should be included in a better system. Weight affects blocking and Height affects catching.

quote:

also weight at the higher end also affects speed

I know about this, but I have a question: how does it affect speed, etc...? In your opinion, anyway.

Basically, Is it pretty much linear? Like will the smallest weight effects speed "the best" and the heaviest weight will affect it "the worst?" Or is it like a bell curve where it peaks at the middle? Same with blocking, catching, etc...

Also, is the range from 5'5" to 6'6" and 175 lbs to 310 lb? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks guys!

JD

< Message edited by jdhalfrack -- 8/23/2008 5:47:32 PM >

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RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/23/2008 7:14:26 PM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jdhalfrack

quote:

IMO even Weight and Height should be included in a better system. Weight affects blocking and Height affects catching.

quote:

also weight at the higher end also affects speed

I know about this, but I have a question: how does it affect speed, etc...? In your opinion, anyway.

Basically, Is it pretty much linear? Like will the smallest weight effects speed "the best" and the heaviest weight will affect it "the worst?" Or is it like a bell curve where it peaks at the middle? Same with blocking, catching, etc...

Also, is the range from 5'5" to 6'6" and 175 lbs to 310 lb? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks guys!

JD

I think a bell curve would be about right
and the weights go to a max of 315 lbs and height to 6'10" I believe

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RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/24/2008 4:34:54 AM

jdhalfrack

Posts: 293
Joined: 10/22/2007
From: Springfield, IL
Status: offline

Okay, here is an updated spreadsheet for you guys to test out.

Max FB Overall Ratings Spreadheet

I included Height and Weight. Height affects the CATCHING rating "behind the scenes" before the CATCHING rating is used in the OVERALL rating. Weight affects the SPEED, STRENGTH, and BLOCKING ratings "behind the scenes" before any of them are used in the OVERALL rating.

Unhide all cells to see the actual formulas (if that interests you). Otherwise, just plug in some numbers and tell me what you think.

JD

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Post #: 22

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/24/2008 12:24:47 PM

Mykal

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Joined: 4/3/2008
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Impressive............
ran a good few sets of numbers through it
not an extensive test more a long quick test

But I have to say, it works for me
figures being produced are very realistic in my humble opinion

it Rocks

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RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/25/2008 6:55:44 AM

Magnum357

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
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I would just like to say that I agree that Weight should effect blocking, but its hard to say if weight effects speed.� But I DO beleive that weight can effect endurance of a player.� The simple formula E=mc^2 helps prove this.� It takes more energy move a large mass as fast as you can.� Granted, players aren't going to travel mach speed or something, but I bet a 315 Ib. Linemen is going to use up a heck of a lot more energy compared to a 180 Ib Wide Receiver at the same velocity.

< Message edited by Magnum357 -- 8/25/2008 6:56:03 AM >

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Post #: 24

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/25/2008 3:02:10 PM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
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quote:

but I bet a 315 Ib. Linemen is going to use up a heck of a lot more energy compared to a 180 Ib Wide Receiver at the same velocity

can a 315 lb lineman even move as fast as a 180 lb reciever....... that was the point
it doesnt mean a lineman is a lumbering ox, he can still pocess speed of reaction etc.

If you dont think weight affect speed...............
find me someone 315 lb and send him to me, I'm around 170 lb, I'll race him over 50 metres
now who's ya' money on................

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Post #: 25

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/25/2008 3:31:54 PM

garysorrell

Posts: 2176
Joined: 1/29/2005
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My money is on Mykal....of course.

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RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/25/2008 10:49:04 PM

Magnum357

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mykal

can a 315 lb lineman even move as fast as a 180 lb reciever....... that was the point
it doesnt mean a lineman is a lumbering ox, he can still pocess speed of reaction etc.

If you dont think weight affect speed...............
find me someone 315 lb and send him to me, I'm around 170 lb, I'll race him over 50 metres
now who's ya' money on................

MyKal, what I'm trying to say is that weight probably does effect speed of a player, but not directly. In the NFL there are actually some quite fast Defensive Ends that could probably run like lightning compared to the average person. But the point I was saying is how long can they maintain that speed? I bet over a long period of time, his mass would factor into his speed indirectly causing him to slow down and for a fast WR to maintain high velocity because he would have less mass to deal with.

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Post #: 27

RE: Hi. New member here! - 8/26/2008 12:18:10 PM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
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Yep I'm with ya' bro

It actually factors in right from the offset though,
I certainly dont have any E=mc squared quotes to offer, not even sure I understand them anyway

But...............

I was in my younger days a sprinter who represented my county
and then after this I played american football in the BAFL

my 100 metre sprint time was around 3/10 of a second slower why ?

My belief is weight, as a sprinter I was around my present weight about 160 lbs at that time
but whilst playing in the BAFL I had hit the weights like crazy and was around 210 lbs but no less lean and fit

I wasnt carrying any excess weight (fat) and certainly hadnt let my fittness slip,
so the difference in speed over even 100 metres has to have been body mass

now to the average Joe on the street, I still probarbly appeared to move like lightening
and this was actually my main assett as a wide out, I was just so much faster than most
but I knew I was a good quater second slower over 100m

So that was why I posted my comments, nothing scientiffic about it (not my thing)
just plain old observation and common sence applied to something I experienced myself.

EDIT - typo's, hahaha

< Message edited by Mykal -- 8/26/2008 12:33:00 PM >

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RE: Hi. New member here! - 9/3/2008 3:13:55 PM

Mykal

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jdhalfrack

Okay, as part of my new editor, I have given users the ability to "manipulate" the "OVERALL" rating formulas. Basically, I just allow users to manipulate the weighting of each skill.

However, I am attaching a spreadsheet ( Max FB Overall Ratings Spreadheet) with the default formulas for you to experiment with. The formulas are based off of the Madden rating formulas (which your truly finally cracked over at Football-Freaks.com). The numbers that are bolded are the skills that actually affect OVERALL ratings. For example, Kick Strength for a QB will not affect the OVERALL rating of the QB.

To get the full effect, unhide all cells. That will give you the option to see the full formula.

Let me know what you think after you put in some values to test. If you don't like a certain result, post the skill ratings and overall rating and tell me why you think it should be different.

JD

I had a much longer look at this JD
it all seems to be fine and dandy
except, you totally missed out Coverage for Linebackers and DB's

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Post #: 29

RE: Hi. New member here! - 9/3/2008 5:04:40 PM

Marauders

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
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quote:

I don't like the way that each rating has the same "weight" in determining the effectiveness of a player. For example, PSS and PSA on a HB/FB/WR should barely be included (if at all). It should not be on the same level as SPD and HND. I know you can "double" or even "triple" the weighting of some skills by using the Profile, but even then, it still seems a little too close.

PSS and PSA are not used for HB/FB/WR.

HND doesn't mean much for many players either. It would be nice if it was taken into account when trying to catch balls in traffic or balls that are not on the numbers, but that is not the case.

The way it was done was to take the stats that are used by that player position and add them up. They are weighted by the skills selected in the team profile.

One can do it anyway one wants, but this was much better than what had been in the game.

(in reply to jdhalfrack)

Post #: 30