Can I cut off Port Moresby?

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Can I cut off Port Moresby?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Can I cut off Port Moresby?

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Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 9/30/2008 8:59:54 PM

ttjhowell

Posts: 28
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Denmark
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So here I am in July 1942 (PBEM, CHS) considering my first real assualt. It's going to be PM...

So my question is how do I cut off all those Jap units at PM so they can't retreat and I actually get to kill them. Please note that the hex in between PM and Buna is still an Allied hex. That's important, right? Should/could I:

1) Drop some paratroopers into the hex then
2) When I offload my invasion force at PM, set one unit (maybe a division to keep things real) to walk to that middle hex.

Would that stop him retreating there?

Next question, is this gamey or just representing a more mobile force cutting off one stuck behind fotress walls.

< Message edited by ttjhowell -- 9/30/2008 9:00:59 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 9/30/2008 9:34:02 PM

engineer

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Joined: 9/8/2006
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If the pass hex is still Allied, then you don't have to drop a paratrooper there, the Japanese can't retreat into a hostile hex.

I've only been able to get paratroops to drop onto a hostile base hex.

Cutting off PM: Presuming that the Japanese are surrounded by non-Japanese hexes, you can simply launch a direct assault on the base with an Amphibious assault. If you capture the base, then you can hammer the isolated Japanese units in the hex into oblivion. However, if the Japanese launch a relief column over the pass, then they can open a retreat route for the Japanese troops at PM. If you try to occupy the pass with a flanking march, the Japanese can easily outmarch down the trail to hold the pass and probably repulse your flanking operation.

(in reply to ttjhowell)

Post #: 2

RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/1/2008 6:59:31 PM

ttjhowell

Posts: 28
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: engineer

If the pass hex is still Allied, then you don't have to drop a paratrooper there, the Japanese can't retreat into a hostile hex.�

Good point. I was going to get a unit in there to make sure he couldn't just move a unit in from Buna but then...

quote:

Cutting off PM:� Presuming that the Japanese are surrounded by non-Japanese hexes, you can simply launch a direct assault on the base with an Amphibious assault.� If you capture the base, then you can hammer the isolated Japanese units in the hex into oblivion.� However, if the Japanese launch a relief column over the pass, then they can open a retreat route for the Japanese troops at PM.� If you try to occupy the pass with a flanking march, the Japanese can easily outmarch down the trail to hold the pass and probably repulse your flanking operation.

Oh. So could the Japanese move from a contested hex to another contested hex? (Assuming I get my blocking unit in place before PM falls). If this is the case then there is no way I can cut them off.

I think I am going to point out to my opponent that they can see the hex controlled areas by using 'w'. He may not be aware of this feature because I can't see any reason for him leaving the hex in my control otherwise.

< Message edited by ttjhowell -- 10/1/2008 7:01:09 PM >

(in reply to engineer)

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RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/1/2008 7:20:22 PM

Dili

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"If the pass hex is still Allied, then you don't have to drop a paratrooper there, the Japanese can't retreat into a hostile hex. "

If there are no allied troops there i think it is gamey to take advantage of that.

(in reply to ttjhowell)

Post #: 4

RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/1/2008 7:25:10 PM

anarchyintheuk

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
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It's unfortunate that the game doesn't automatically change the ownership of the hex, but if you invade a place, I think it's up to you to secure your own line of retreat.

(in reply to Dili)

Post #: 5

RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/1/2008 8:18:57 PM

KTNJR

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From: Green Bay, WI
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

"If the pass hex is still Allied, then you don't have to drop a paratrooper there, the Japanese can't retreat into a hostile hex. "

If there are no allied troops there i think it is gamey to take advantage of that.

Just asking why you think this is gamey?

(in reply to Dili)

Post #: 6

RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/1/2008 8:38:14 PM

herwin

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From: Sunderland, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KTNJR

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

"If the pass hex is still Allied, then you don't have to drop a paratrooper there, the Japanese can't retreat into a hostile hex. "

If there are no allied troops there i think it is gamey to take advantage of that.

Just asking why you think this is gamey?

Who in their right mind would take on an organised group of Japanese soldiers unless they had some troops of their own?

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to KTNJR)

Post #: 7

RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/1/2008 9:15:43 PM

ttjhowell

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From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: KTNJR

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

"If the pass hex is still Allied, then you don't have to drop a paratrooper there, the Japanese can't retreat into a hostile hex. "

If there are no allied troops there i think it is gamey to take advantage of that.

Just asking why you think this is gamey?

Who in their right mind would take on an organised group of Japanese soldiers unless they had some troops of their own?

It's unrealistic but wouldn't be my fault since it is up to the Jap place to turn on the hex ownership overlay, notice that the hex inbetween is still in my control and then send out a small unit to change that.

Anyway, I want to get a decent unit out there so there can be no arguments.

(in reply to herwin)

Post #: 8

RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/1/2008 9:28:43 PM

Barb

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Maybe there are some aborigines led by some "Coastwatcher", making the trail dificult to cross for small groups of japan soldiers

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RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/2/2008 3:38:03 AM

dennishe

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From: Leiden, the Netherlands
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quote:

Maybe there are some aborigines led by some "Coastwatcher", making the trail dificult to cross for small groups of japan soldiers

Or change the road signals leading them back to Port Moresby

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Post #: 10

RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/2/2008 9:04:49 AM

JeffroK

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IRL, there would be an airfield available at Kokoda & Myola capable of taking C47 & supply drops.

Still a bit gamey, but it depends on what you & your opponent have aggreed upon.

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(in reply to dennishe)

Post #: 11

RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/2/2008 1:47:25 PM

KTNJR

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From: Green Bay, WI
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

"If the pass hex is still Allied, then you don't have to drop a paratrooper there, the Japanese can't retreat into a hostile hex. "

If there are no allied troops there i think it is gamey to take advantage of that.

In real life the job of paratroopers is to stop the flow of of supplies and supporting unit reaching the beachhead.
So, I don't think this as game at all!

(in reply to Dili)

Post #: 12

RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/2/2008 9:51:40 PM

Dili

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(in reply to KTNJR)

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RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/3/2008 12:58:40 AM

Elessar

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From: Regensburg, Germany
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If my infantry division at PM would get cut of by some squads of your paratroopers I would be pretty unhappy if I where your opponent. On the other hand, if it is July 1942 and you still hold Lae something must have gone wrong on the Jap side. It depends on how many troops he has in PM, a base force or a division?�

(in reply to Dili)

Post #: 14

RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/3/2008 1:39:34 AM

KTNJR

Posts: 102
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From: Green Bay, WI
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elessar

If my infantry division at PM would get cut of by some squads of your paratroopers I would be pretty unhappy if I where your opponent. On the other hand, if it is July 1942 and you still hold Lae something must have gone wrong on the Jap side. It depends on how many troops he has in PM, a base force or a division?�

Why get unhappy!!
You just have to commit some of your forces to kick him out.
I guess the germans should have cried foul when the paratroopers were scattered all over the place night before D-Day!!

(in reply to Elessar)

Post #: 15

RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/3/2008 8:52:07 AM

JeffroK

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I have no problems with paratroops, putting aside that the game gives too much blocking power to small units for the hex geographic size(60 miles). I have problems with any blocking made only by hex ownership.

After all, they are only defending a narrow track through heavy jungle and precipitous mountains.

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RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/4/2008 5:27:05 AM

bradfordkay

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The situation in the screen shot seems to be an unusual one: at some point an allied unit marched along the Kokoda Track between Port Moresby and Buna (unknown to the casual observer as to which direction it took, but for the game effect this is of no consequnece) while the Japanese captured both Port Moresby and Buna by naval invasion. At no time has the Japanese player sent troops along the track to clear the route, because the game shows him that there are no enemy troops there.

IRL they would have at least sent patrols along the track to clear out any remaining enemy troops.

In this game that one hex is still listed as under allied control because an allied unit was the last to occupy it, and this may prevent the troops in Port moresby from being able to retreat to Buna.

I do not feel that the allied player is taking advantage of a particular game mechanic unless he had marched some inconsequential troops between Buna and Port Moresby long before any Japanese invasion of the area with the express purpose of causing this problem for the Japanese player later in the game.

_____________________________

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Post #: 17

RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/6/2008 6:06:46 PM

engineer

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quote:

Oh. So could the Japanese move from a contested hex to another contested hex? (Assuming I get my blocking unit in place before PM falls). If this is the case then there is no way I can cut them off.

Actually, I was thinking that you march a relief column from Buna so you wouldn't weaken the PM defenses. I'm no expert on ZoC for a PM march, but I don't think the Allied unit on the north coast of New Guinea would effect movement on the Kokoda trail hex.

(in reply to bradfordkay)

Post #: 18

RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/14/2008 2:35:05 PM

ctid98

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As the Japanese player seems to be invading Australia you have bigger things to worry about other than getting PM back!

Anyway, for what its worth here is what I would do..... Take or reinforce Gili Gili depending on whether or not you've lost it, put in Beauforts and away you go. Every time he sends a ship to bring in supplies, pound it. Add a FG and you'll do fine.

Its a long walk from PM to Lae, that is how you kill his troops, let natural attrition do it.

It just won't be easy to take/keep Gili Gili, but then nothing is.

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(in reply to engineer)

Post #: 19

RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/16/2008 7:45:47 PM

jhowell

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From: Denmark
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I thought you might all be interested about what happened. I arrived and offloaded 3 divisions, 5 RCT/brigades an HQ and some engineering units. End result after one deliberate attack...

It turns out that although there were 15 units there they were mainly construction units and did not contribute to the AV. I sort of knew there was a high proportion of them from my scouting but didn't realise it was quite that high. As you can see from the picture, as the road to Buna (Kokoda Trail) was still in my hex ownership the stack could not retreat in that direction and went into the hex to the north.. INTO THE MOUNTAINS WHERE THERE IS NO TRAIL AND FROM WHICH THERE SHALL BE NO RETURN

I feel a little bad about this but I did contact my opponent before hand and made sure he understood that the 'w' key turns on the hex ownership indicator and he even said that he was in the habit of marching troops up and down trails to ensure ownership. I was going to specifically mention it again and even send a screen shot but then I took the town in one attack. Anyway, is it possible that he could have done this on purpose to prevent me from following up on a shock attack and 'shunting' his guys all the way back to Buna with my guys following.

Anyway, thanks for all the help on the game mechanic. ctid98, where is Gili Gili exactely?

(in reply to ctid98)

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RE: Can I cut off Port Moresby? - 10/16/2008 7:50:07 PM

jhowell

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From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

The situation in the screen shot seems to be an unusual one: at some point an allied unit marched along the Kokoda Track between Port Moresby and Buna (unknown to the casual observer as to which direction it took, but for the game effect this is of no consequnece) while the Japanese captured both Port Moresby and Buna by naval invasion. At no time has the Japanese player sent troops along the track to clear the route, because the game shows him that there are no enemy troops there.

Yes, I had some poor souls get forced out from PM when it was captured (first) and they had to march all the way to Buna. (Then when Buna got taken they ended up in Salamaua. ) I guess that is when it happened. Didn't seem like a good thing at the time but it did turn out to be usefull.

(in reply to bradfordkay)

Post #: 21

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