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Question about Depots - 10/7/2008 5:56:27 PM

Remise_slith

Posts: 27
Joined: 5/13/2006
From: Maryland
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For the past half-dozen turns or so, as the Union player, all I have created was supplies, in a so-far vain effort to be able to construct a depot. Despite this, every single turn, when I do try to create one, I am told I have insufficient supplies. What obvious fact am I overlooking?

I would really like to like this game, but the mechanics of it are so arcane that actually thinking about strategy is very much a secondary consideration to trying to figure out how to make my armies do anything. Gary Grigsby's World at War was, in my opinion, an elegant and very entertaining game, and I was hoping this one would be something of the sort.

Thanks very much.

B.C. Milligan

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Company K, First Pennsylvania Reserves

Post #: 1

RE: Question about Depots - 10/7/2008 6:51:50 PM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline

Could be you don't have a supply link to where you are trying to build the depot. If you do, then you may have too many supplies already tied down in depots. Let's say you have 305 supplies and 15 depots on the map already. This means that 15x20 or 300 supplies are tied down already and only 5 are available to build a new depot. If you still think there is a problem, please send a save to 2by3@2by3games.com.

(in reply to Remise_slith)

Post #: 2

RE: Question about Depots - 10/7/2008 7:08:29 PM

Capt Cliff

Posts: 1791
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Northwest, USA
Status: offline

Do depots have to be linked to other depots or would a rail line/river transport to a suppy head work? I am playing a game against the computer as the union and it's 1863 and Grant is stalled outside of Vicksburg with no supply! I do have a line of depots back to Cairo as well as control of the river. Maybe a discertation on how the supply should work is in order.

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Capt. Cliff

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 3

RE: Question about Depots - 10/7/2008 7:13:50 PM

Remise_slith

Posts: 27
Joined: 5/13/2006
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Joel --

Thanks. I am sure that is my problem -- my new supplies keep feeding into existing depots, I guess, thus making it impossible to create new depots. I will assume the solution is to dismantle some of the rear area depots. This was probably in the manual and I missed it.

Just in case it makes a difference, however, I even attempted to build a depot in Washington, D.C., and was unable to do so.

B.C. Milligan

P.S. You probably don't recall interviewing me for a job at SSI back around 1996 or so, or that I used to mooch games from you at GenCon, when you were at SSI and I was at GEnie and Microprose -- but maybe that's just as well! I am currently working with Bill Becker (Silent Hunter), by the way, on a serious games project in D.C.

< Message edited by Remise -- 10/7/2008 7:15:21 PM >

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Company K, First Pennsylvania Reserves

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Post #: 4

RE: Question about Depots - 10/7/2008 8:40:20 PM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Remise

Joel --

P.S. You probably don't recall interviewing me for a job at SSI back around 1996 or so, or that I used to mooch games from you at GenCon, when you were at SSI and I was at GEnie and Microprose -- but maybe that's just as well! I am currently working with Bill Becker (Silent Hunter), by the way, on a serious games project in D.C.

I remember you, mostly from the GEnie connection.

(in reply to Remise_slith)

Post #: 5

RE: Question about Depots - 10/7/2008 8:46:02 PM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff

Do depots have to be linked to other depots or would a rail line/river transport to a suppy head work? I am playing a game against the computer as the union and it's 1863 and Grant is stalled outside of Vicksburg with no supply! I do have a line of depots back to Cairo as well as control of the river. Maybe a discertation on how the supply should work is in order.

Does Grant have units that are actually unsupplied? If so, and he is in an area with a valid supply grid (supply cost 1,2 or 3), then you haven't built enough supplies to supply your army. If Grant is off the supply grid, then you don't have a connection (you say you do though). Depots only help you in one way. They help leaders get initiative if they are in the area with a full depot. They do not supply troops. If you have too many supplies tied up in depots, you may not have enough supplies to actually feed your army (supply them each turn). This is an area that beginners seem to have trouble with. I repeat, depots do not supply your army and in fact keep supplies from being usable by units, they only help leaders with initiative.

(in reply to Capt Cliff)

Post #: 6

RE: Question about Depots - 10/7/2008 8:56:26 PM

jhdeerslayer

Posts: 1194
Joined: 5/25/2002
From: Michigan
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Remise

For the past half-dozen turns or so, as the Union player, all I have created was supplies, in a so-far vain effort to be able to construct a depot. Despite this, every single turn, when I do try to create one, I am told I have insufficient supplies. What obvious fact am I overlooking?

I would really like to like this game, but the mechanics of it are so arcane that actually thinking about strategy is very much a secondary consideration to trying to figure out how to make my armies do anything. Gary Grigsby's World at War was, in my opinion, an elegant and very entertaining game, and I was hoping this one would be something of the sort.

Thanks very much.

B.C. Milligan

It is key to understand you don't need depots everywhere for USA. Only where you have key forces you want to have a better chance of activation. You don't need depots in your home territory either. But you do in the border states. And the five coastal islands to increase blockade affects.

Disband depots and reclaim its supply once the front line has moved on. Excluding the coastal islands, I usually only have a handful or so of depots active at a time. Depots can also be used to deceive your offensive intentions also for PBEM anyway.

(in reply to Remise_slith)

Post #: 7

RE: Question about Depots - 10/8/2008 7:10:46 PM

Capt Cliff

Posts: 1791
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Northwest, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff

Do depots have to be linked to other depots or would a rail line/river transport to a suppy head work? I am playing a game against the computer as the union and it's 1863 and Grant is stalled outside of Vicksburg with no supply! I do have a line of depots back to Cairo as well as control of the river. Maybe a discertation on how the supply should work is in order.

Does Grant have units that are actually unsupplied? If so, and he is in an area with a valid supply grid (supply cost 1,2 or 3), then you haven't built enough supplies to supply your army. If Grant is off the supply grid, then you don't have a connection (you say you do though). Depots only help you in one way. They help leaders get initiative if they are in the area with a full depot. They do not supply troops. If you have too many supplies tied up in depots, you may not have enough supplies to actually feed your army (supply them each turn). This is an area that beginners seem to have trouble with. I repeat, depots do not supply your army and in fact keep supplies from being usable by units, they only help leaders with initiative.

Thanks Joel! I thought depots supplied my units, which is strange that they don't. Maybe a change in name is inorder. Is there any way to eliminate depots previously built? As the union marches south there will be a line of depots to the rear but you only need one where the army commander currently is at.

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Capt. Cliff

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 8

RE: Question about Depots - 10/8/2008 7:16:15 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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Depots serve as a way to concentrate supplies for initiative purposes (and for blockade supply), that's their purpose. The supplies there won't be drawn for unit supply as they are specifically being stockpiled in preparation for whatever campaign is being planned. You only need depots in non-home territory where you have units or armies that you want to give a better chance at initiative too, since the initiative bonus is granted as long as there are at least 20 supplies (equal to one undamaged/unraided depot) in the same area with the unit or army commander.

You should use the destroy depot button to free up the supplies in depots once you no longer need the depots in the region.

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to Capt Cliff)

Post #: 9

RE: Question about Depots - 10/8/2008 7:38:27 PM

JAMiAM

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Keep in mind that though no regular means of moving supplies exist, there is a way to do so, by using depots. So, if for example you feel that you might end up getting some area cut off, and it is a poorly producing area with few resources left in the regional pools, then you could conceivably stockpile some supplies in the area ahead of time, by building depots and then disbanding them on an as needed basis.

This might work for the Confederates in the Trans-Mississippi region, if the Mississippi is in danger of being cut. Or, if the Union is going deep into the Mississippi River system and thinks that its suppy lines might become untenable due to Rebel HA, forts, and naval units in its rear. Of course, having an abundance of supplies as the Confederates is not something that happens often. Just pointing out the possibility inherent in stockpiling and disbanding.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 10

RE: Question about Depots - 10/8/2008 8:05:30 PM

Erik Rutins

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From: Vermont, USA
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Great advice, James.

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Post #: 11

RE: Question about Depots - 10/8/2008 8:09:37 PM

Toby42

Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
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Is there anyway to find out where the depots are, other than going from area to area?

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(in reply to JAMiAM)

Post #: 12

RE: Question about Depots - 10/8/2008 8:15:47 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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Yes, look for the black and white circle (supply symbol) that marks areas with depots.

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Toby42)

Post #: 13

RE: Question about Depots - 10/9/2008 9:20:51 AM

herwin

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Depots serve as a way to concentrate supplies for initiative purposes (and for blockade supply), that's their purpose. The supplies there won't be drawn for unit supply as they are specifically being stockpiled in preparation for whatever campaign is being planned. You only need depots in non-home territory where you have units or armies that you want to give a better chance at initiative too, since the initiative bonus is granted as long as there are at least 20 supplies (equal to one undamaged/unraided depot) in the same area with the unit or army commander.

You should use the destroy depot button to free up the supplies in depots once you no longer need the depots in the region.

Regards,

- Erik

Why does the AI build multiple (more than two, over and over again) depots?--it's almost like my cavalry destroys the depots it raids permanently.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 14

RE: Question about Depots - 10/9/2008 11:33:51 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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More than one depot actually protects against cavalry raids. A cavalry raid only needs to destroy+capture 1 supply point to bring a single depot below the 20 supplies needed for the initiative bonus. But if you have three depots, then 41 supplies need to be destroyed+captured before you get below 20 and lose the initiative bonus.

Very large and well lead cavalry raiding forces can still do that, but smaller ones cannot.

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to herwin)

Post #: 15

RE: Question about Depots - 10/9/2008 12:34:48 PM

herwin

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From: Sunderland, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

More than one depot actually protects against cavalry raids. A cavalry raid only needs to destroy+capture 1 supply point to bring a single depot below the 20 supplies needed for the initiative bonus. But if you have three depots, then 41 supplies need to be destroyed+captured before you get below 20 and lose the initiative bonus.

Very large and well lead cavalry raiding forces can still do that, but smaller ones cannot.

The AI seems to react to cavalry raids by building more depots, without any consideration of how many already exist.

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Post #: 16

RE: Question about Depots - 10/14/2008 5:25:03 PM

Remise_slith

Posts: 27
Joined: 5/13/2006
From: Maryland
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Just in case it is in fact a bug and merely our ineptitude, my PBEM opponent and I have both destroyed several depots, but are still unable to build any new ones. This has pretty much caused our game to shut down, except in a WWI sense, as neither of us can do much in the way of advancing.

B.C. Milligan

_____________________________

Company K, First Pennsylvania Reserves

(in reply to herwin)

Post #: 17

RE: Question about Depots - 10/14/2008 6:23:52 PM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
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How many supplies do you have available (deduct 20 for each depot and any supplies in areas cut off from the main armies). The Union army often has a montly supply need of around 400-500, while the Confederate need is usually in the 200-300 range, although it can vary depending on how well you are taking advantage of areas with large resource stockpiles. You can always send a save to 2by3@2by3games.com along with the password for the save and I'll take a look at it.

(in reply to Remise_slith)

Post #: 18

RE: Question about Depots - 10/14/2008 6:30:10 PM

JAMiAM

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Remise

Just in case it is�in fact�a bug and merely our ineptitude, my PBEM opponent and I have both destroyed several depots, but are still unable to build any new ones.� This has pretty much caused our game to shut down, except in a WWI sense, as neither of us can do much in the way of advancing.

B.C. Milligan

Having the depots is not a guarantee of having the supplies. If you've overbuilt on depots, then they may be drawn down, but still on the map. That is, they may not represent a full 20 supplies each, or indeed any, if you've really screwed up your supply situation. Your best bet to get a handle on this situation is to email your turn to an experienced player, along with the password. Then, he can open the turn and give you some more specific advice. However, it's kind of hard to tell just exactly what kind of hole you've dug for yourself without seeing screenshots, at least, or a saved game, preferably.

(in reply to Remise_slith)

Post #: 19