Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

I expect to get blasted by Matrix for this but.....

There have been two threads now - not counting this one - about the general feelings playes have about the quality of this game. They have been, by FAR, the most hit threads, and Matrix has shut both down. So, I am opening another one. For those of you that think we are just complaining to complain here, why don't you open a thread about how how playable and problem free the game is, and see how popular that threat gets.

Also, if a thread complaining about the quality of the product we have bought is against the policy of what is "allowed" on the forums, I would love to see a copy of that policy. I understand that once things start getting to personal insults people have crossed the line, but it seems that Matrix is looking for excuses to shut these threads down to try and limit the negatve comments about a product. Personally, the outlet to discuss these issues is the only thing that kept me from calling your company and demanding a refund.


by the way... newest issue, and I will post this in tech support for Marshall.. is I loaded 1.04. On my next turn, I save my land phase as Russia, post my turn to the other players who have done land phases, and when I load the "new" save file - that has a different name than the old one - but an expected change in 1.04, I am back to the start of my land phase!

quote:

while there were still serious issues and bugs to be sure, overall the patches had improved things

quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr
Great point! For the sake of continued discussions about the general feelings players have about the quality of this game, it would be most helpful to focus on current issues and building concensus for ongoing improvements. That's a healthy debate. Continued rantings about past issues which have been discussed to no end and already fully acknowledged by Matrix staff and Marshall Ellis (many already resolved) are not at all helpful at this point. I mean really, what is Matrix supposed to do right now that they haven't already done? Nothing will undo what has been done, nothing will change the past.

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Thanks, Pzgndr, I agree. That is not to say that criticism should stop, we learn from it and listen. But I think it would be refreshing if the arguments that have been made repeatedly by the same people and acknowledged by us could be laid to rest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
Matrix really doesn't care, that's the bottom line. I will never play another game made by this company. I will probably only finish out the EiANW games I have started and then I will be done. I will not playtest for this horrible company or report any bugs I find or give any feedback in any way simply because I don't believe that this company listens.

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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When you continue to argue despite evidence to the contrary that we are not paying any attention to our customers, it starts to move from criticism into the realm of bashing.

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Matrix really doesn't care, that's the bottom line. I will never play another game made by this company. I will probably only finish out the EiANW games I have started and then I will be done. I will not playtest for this horrible company or report any bugs I find or give any feedback in any way simply because I don't believe that this company listens.

quote:

I went back to look at the older thread and saw that pzgndr was one of the posters making personal attacks there, which explains the comment by NeverMan, as pzgndr was attacking him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
... When you continue to argue despite evidence to the contrary that we are not paying any attention to our customers, it starts to move from criticism into the realm of bashing.

...

The previous thread was locked solely because it was degenerating into personal attacks among forum members. You can check other forums, we do the same there when that happens, it has nothing to do with whether we are supporting a game or not.

Regards,

- Erik

quote:

ORIGINAL: timewalker03

pzgndr no matter what you have to have some sort oversite in a project like this. Look at what happens when a company listens to a few people and enacts that, rather than taking what the overall majority wanted and still wants. EiA became EiH because of a few and it was few people made the suggestion to look into the rules for EiH. They then came in contact with I believe his name is Michael Treasure and from there the amoeba this game is was created. When it came down to it Matrix and Marshall took it upon themselves. Once the game was released they then realized that it really was not the popular choice. I do fully understand that EiA could not be a direct crossover. That is very obvious to anyone who played the board game. For those who have said using EiH to make up for historical accuracy of the game use that argument to make the case for EiH must realize there was some license taken by Avalon Hill originally to create a playable game. AH also through the Generals tried their best to make up for some of the games problems the original game had. And if you go all the way back to the first release of EiA you will recall all of the French infantry corps were 25I 3C. I remember my first game ever played where France had all corps maxed out and Charles lost 3 straight battles to the monster that was France. So this was a flawed board game. Also the best version of this game was the Naval Academy or was it Air Force Academy version of the game which streamlined a lot of the game and also made the game closer to accurate without changing game mechanics much. I have been burned by Matrix before with games, and I just hope furiously that it doesn't happen again. Right now things still do not look good.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
... When you continue to argue despite evidence to the contrary that we are not paying any attention to our customers, it starts to move from criticism into the realm of bashing.

...

The previous thread was locked solely because it was degenerating into personal attacks among forum members. You can check other forums, we do the same there when that happens, it has nothing to do with whether we are supporting a game or not.

Regards,

- Erik

What you might want to do to facilitate people understanding this concept (that you lock threads for personal attacks) is have a person not involved with the game or game discussion be responsible for locking the threads. This would be tough, because that person would have to answer "reported posts" on a product he/she doesn't work with. But, if that were done, then there could be very little argument that the locking was done to shut people up.

Having been involved in various forums for a long time, I've seen a tendency for the forum users to attack a the person who locked the thread as being partial to one side or the other (usually the opposite to the one that person holds). Even normally excellent posters can somehow be dragged down by a series of bad posts. Frequently, it's not even possible to determine "who started it" (as if we're sixth graders).

I've been caught in it myself, and it's hard to recognize when one is posting. What I've always tried to do (usually after being prompted by another poster or a moderator) is take a short break (a few minutes) and reevaluate. It's amazing that something that took days or weeks to build up can be eliminated in only a few minutes. But, it's not always easy, even though short.

Putting in an "impartial" moderator helps by making it clear that the person making the decision to lock a thread is NOT one of the participants, and also is NOT emotionally tied to the discussion (i.e. by being part of the team that supports the product). In other words, that person has an insulator around himself as regards THIS game (he may very well be involved in OTHER games; just not the one in question).

Make sense?

quote:

ORIGINAL: iamspamus

Why does Matrix need an "impartial" moderator? It's their forum on their site. Sounds like they can do what they want. I don't have a problem with that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thresh

Jimmer,

Can you name one game company's forums who are moderated by a 3rd party?

Todd

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On this last point, I am in 100% agreement with Mr. Borner. It is unfortunate that the game is hamstrung by a strict adherence to the phase schedule, which was the first thing to be thrown out the window by any group that played the board game.