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RE: playable yet? Part II

 
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RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/9/2009 10:10:29 AM   
bresh

 

Posts: 936
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline 		A couple of the items I think the game lacks on the pbm part.

Most is mentioned before.

A better secure way for battles, both land and naval, the "reload is to fragile, and leaves unwanted questionmarks on players, if someone has to reload their file because of some bug, or other mysterious reason".


I would like to see options, where you can say no to "1 corps-defend quick battles, ",
In a battle i might select 1 chit to defend vs 1 corps. but another vs 2+, this gives a bad effect on gamebalance.

Naval battles, like break blockade box, or naval battles, should require fileexchange to.
I seen someone break out of a blockade they had less than 5% chance of, on first and only try.

Dice rolls, should always be hidden till casulties need to be taken. (Dont know when outflank/guard commitment show-rolls in battles)

As the system works:
1. the attacker selects chit,
2. then defender (and the defender sees rolls and dice, but why ???)
Each round.
3. Attacker takes casulties
4. The defender takes casulties.

This way the defender/attacker wont be able to somehow cheat the system.

Lend forces, should still be able to be attacked by their "enemies", again currently its for the players to houserule this.

Btw the reload feature is this only land or also naval-phase ?

Regards
Bresh


< Message edited by bresh -- 5/9/2009 10:13:52 AM >

(in reply to mr.godo)
Post #: 361
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/11/2009 2:36:37 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		the thing is still bug ridden. in two games in recent weeks, the Russian transport fleet, and the corps it was carrying disappeared, as did the Danish corps once it marched to Hamburg. I guess some players do not mind such minor issues when they play.   Marshall, with respect, why in the heck is Matrix looking at changing the naval system and such when things such as this keep coming up. It's been over a yer now, and there are still such basic bugs appearing in games.

(in reply to bresh)
Post #: 362
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/11/2009 2:45:47 PM   
bresh

 

Posts: 936
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

the thing is still bug ridden. in two games in recent weeks, the Russian transport fleet, and the corps it was carrying disappeared, as did the Danish corps once it marched to Hamburg. I guess some players do not mind such minor issues when they play.   Marshall, with respect, why in the heck is Matrix looking at changing the naval system and such when things such as this keep coming up. It's been over a yer now, and there are still such basic bugs appearing in games.


Ouch, though do you use the official 1.05 patch or the unofficial 1.06 ?
Pbm games should only use the official patches, the new-ones often reveal new bugs, and can stop/ruin games.

Regards
Bresh

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 363
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/11/2009 3:40:58 PM   
Mardonius


Posts: 654
Joined: 4/9/2007
From: East Coast
Status: offline 		Bresh's policy is wise. Don't use unofficial patches for PBEM. Bugs always appear.

_____________________________

"Crisis is the rallying cry of the tyrant" -- James Madison
"Yes, you will win most battles, but if you loose to me you will loose oh so badly that it causes me pain (chortle) just to think of it" - P. Khan

(in reply to bresh)
Post #: 364
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/11/2009 4:46:23 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Yes, regular updates only, no beta

(in reply to Mardonius)
Post #: 365
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/13/2009 8:05:45 PM   
Tanan Fujiwara

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		NO

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 366
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/17/2009 3:55:29 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Well, now a game has a problem where Russia loans fleets to GB. Russia and Fr show them as loaned, but GB does not have control. Please, can the powers that be stop trying to figure out how to change things such as naval builds and combat, and put everything into getting these bugs fixed. It has been over a year already, and these issues still come up. With respect to the work that has been put into this game, it must be considered a failure at this point. This was advertised as a finished product when released, not a beta version.

(in reply to Tanan Fujiwara)
Post #: 367
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/17/2009 7:46:46 PM   
mr.godo

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		Seems more like someone's hobby than a developing product. 

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 368
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/18/2009 4:15:08 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, Mr. Godo it seems that way.

Well, it's been well over a year since this game has been out and there are still many game stopping bugs.

I think it's fair to say that Matrix Games totally screwed the pooch on this one and that I HIGHLY doubt this game will ever get to the place where game stopping/changing bugs don't exist.

There was another poster who said that it seems there is a fundamental problem in the code design of this game/engine and I think this is a very accurate statement, which is the reason these game stopping/changing bugs will probably never end.

(in reply to mr.godo)
Post #: 369
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/18/2009 10:27:08 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

I think it's fair to say that Matrix Games totally screwed the pooch on this one


Fair enough, for what has happened in the past.

quote:

and that I HIGHLY doubt this game will ever get to the place where game stopping/changing bugs don't exist.

There was another poster who said that it seems there is a fundamental problem in the code design of this game/engine and I think this is a very accurate statement, which is the reason these game stopping/changing bugs will probably never end.


I disagree about the future prognosis. I am doubtful things will be resolved in the "near future" at the rate this game has been moving along but optimistic they will eventually be resolved. As for the purely speculative comments about the code design, nobody really knows except Marshall and this isn't worth a whit arguing about at this point. Unless you prefer to wait many more years for a different product?? Personally I prefer to help nurse this one along and get it done, however long it takes.

For those who are continue to be so negative about this game after all this time and appear firmly decided that it is unplayable and never will be playable, it is pure insanity to keep on beating a dead horse and whining about it.

(in reply to bresh)
Post #: 370
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/19/2009 3:29:18 AM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr
Personally I prefer to help nurse this one along and get it done, however long it takes.



I guess the point of my last post was to question if indeed it is possible to "nurse this one along and get it done". I am definitely questioning this. For every bug solved there is at least 1 more that pops up..

I honestly do hope this game gets done and comes along, it would be nice to spend my hours playing this game not wondering if the game was cheating me of PP or VP or corps or factors or territory or alliances, etc... and not wondering if the next move I make will halt the game for days or weeks or how long it will set us back.

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 371
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/19/2009 12:55:04 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Hey guys:

I don't think we're getting enough testing time currently. I may have to let a version cook a little longer at this point which I hate but it seems that when I release a BETA right now that it just isn't ready. This is nothing against the testers since I may be rushing this at this point. This would explain the fix and break theory which I tend to agree with at this point. I should probably also make future patches somewhat smaller. 1.06 is the biggest code change so far! The problem with bugs seeming to come back is that it is frustrating BUT it's not always the same cause. It is frequently different issues with the asame symptoms / results (For what it's worth).


_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 372
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/20/2009 12:44:51 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Hery pz!! how about current events??? a comment from a player in another game I am in is attached below.

This idiot game.  The Austrian land phase works, but then it goes to the
land combat phase and does not recognize that I'm involved.  It just opens
looking for a land combat file.  I'd like to draw and quarter the designer
at this point.

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 373
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/20/2009 12:59:40 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

Hery pz!! how about current events??? a comment from a player in another game I am in is attached below.

This idiot game.  The Austrian land phase works, but then it goes to the
land combat phase and does not recognize that I'm involved.  It just opens
looking for a land combat file.  I'd like to draw and quarter the designer
at this point.



That is a bit extreme.

Personally, I blame MatrixGames much more than I blame Marshall. Marshall is just the developer tasked (or asked) with the job and I have no doubt he is doing the absolute best he can.

For a project of this size MatrixGames should have and could have done more or at least made sure the project got into the hands of a more experienced developer (no offense Marshall).

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 374
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/21/2009 3:07:57 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		I agree, on all counts, and the comment i am sure was toung in cheek, but it bring up a good point. The game is still not playable, as bugs derail the flow of the game or bring things to a halt multiple times.

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 375
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/21/2009 1:00:35 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline
I take no offense Neverman. I think the basic problem is that we tried to make this more than it should have been. We added where we shouldn't have then didn't add what we should have! I'll take the blame because much of this was me. I cannot blame Matrix here. Could we have had more developers? Sure. Could we have done things differently? Sure. The PBEM system is the real headache and I hear you guys. I'm hoping that 1.06 will address much of this!

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to borner)
Post #: 376
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/21/2009 9:36:04 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

Hery pz!! how about current events???


My recent comment was about the future direction. I won't argue about the current situation, which remains problematic. But I remain optimistic that issues can and will be resolved. To see some comments posted that issues cannot and will not be resolved, and that the game will never be playable, well that warrants a rebuttal. In my opinion.

(in reply to bresh)
Post #: 377
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/28/2009 4:38:57 PM   
lavisj

 

Posts: 89
Joined: 10/17/2006
Status: offline 		Well, I came here after over a year to see if the game was finally off unofficial "beta" status.... it is not. So I will continue to wait.
What I am surprised at though is that the game is still being advertised and sold as a finished fully functioning product while everythings I read here today make me believe that it is still in test and major adjustment status. This I think is a major issue from a commercial standpoint.

I will check again in a few month. Keep up the good work.

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 378
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/29/2009 4:12:48 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		There has been talk and talk for a year about the quality of this product, and i will admit to be one of the move negative voices on this forum about things. People going back and forth at each other and the game for the problems. Good players that bought the game quitting saying they will be back when things work. Ect. The question I have now is what is the cause of all these bugs beleived ot be, and where are things in regards to a realistic timeframe to get a playable product? This is not a finished product, but has the makings of a good game, but now what i would expect a beta test version to be.

(in reply to lavisj)
Post #: 379
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/29/2009 3:53:22 PM   
lavisj

 

Posts: 89
Joined: 10/17/2006
Status: offline 		The main problem for me, with this whole story, is not that the game is still not working as it should, it is the fact that Matrix is charging 70 dollars to sell a game that is by the admission of its developers is not yet finished. Based on the fact that this is clearly false and misleading advertising, that matrix has been unwilling to provide refunds to customers even though the product did not match advertised specs .... this makes me very wary of Matrix in general, and it is clear that I will never buy any of their product until the community at large has given its stamp of approval.... and magazine review obviously do not matter here. For exemple, even though I am waiting for MWIF with expectation, it is clear that I will not buy the game upon release... but instead will wait to see if it delivers, because obviously this company does not have a good track record on that level.
The only redeeming factor is that the developers are trying to fix the game (for now) even though it would probably not increase their sales even if they manage to suceed.
ok... rant over. I will leave the developers to do their work now.

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 380
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/29/2009 9:26:55 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lavisj

even though it would probably not increase their sales even if they manage to suceed.




I feel your pain and agree with the exception of above. I DO feel that if Matrix/Marshall can somehow manage (I do question though if it's even possible at this point) to get this game back on track that there will be more sales in the future simply by word of mouth. There are many people like me who are playing this game with people from here even though I'd like to play with my old group, who of course refuses to buy the game (due to bugs and a large part due to it only having PBEM capability).

(in reply to lavisj)
Post #: 381
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/30/2009 4:28:07 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		for me the worry is the feeling of denail I get from Matrix. They talk of changes to the naval system ans such without getting the game as is working. Marshall was going to take a position in a game we are playing as Turkey but his schedule apparently would not allow it. Too bad, as this game has had multiple issues, and he could have seen these first hand.

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 382
RE: playable yet? Part II - 5/30/2009 10:15:11 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		I expected a working product. If it was bad, then fine, my fault for buying it, but a working one. This beta version of a game is like trying to drive a truck with 2 of 8 bad sparkplugs, with a bad tranmission, in the rain with no windshield wipers. Does it run, sure, but you are going to have a hard time getting anywhere.

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 383
RE: playable yet? Part II - 6/7/2009 6:59:15 AM   
mr.godo

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline 		In the spirit of not hijacking threads, it's not just bugs that make this game not playable, it's the design restrictions that creep in. For example. allied depots and depot limits. These cannot be implemented because of restrictions with the code.
These aren't rules that were adopted midway through the development process, they are part of the original game. And frankly, I don't understand how it could be coded to not allow allied depots or depot limits.

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 384
RE: playable yet? Part II - 6/7/2009 6:38:27 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mr.godo

In the spirit of not hijacking threads, it's not just bugs that make this game not playable, it's the design restrictions that creep in. For example. allied depots and depot limits. These cannot be implemented because of restrictions with the code.
These aren't rules that were adopted midway through the development process, they are part of the original game. And frankly, I don't understand how it could be coded to not allow allied depots or depot limits.



I agree that there were serious design flaws for this game from the start and I think both Matrix and Marshall will agree with you also, sadly since they are not planning on releasing the source code nor are they planning on redesigning this thing from scratch I guess we will have to live with those major design flaws.

With all the design flaws that exist though, I still think this game could be fun if two things happened:

1) FIX THE BUGS!!!!!
2) The editor allows for a lot of flexibility WITHOUT introducing new bugs!!

At this stage I simply want the bugs fixed, at least that way I can plan without having to adapt to "surprises" (aka bugs) that pop up.

(in reply to mr.godo)
Post #: 385
RE: playable yet? Part II - 6/7/2009 8:34:08 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		I agree Neverman. At least get the game as is working. Fix the bugs. PLEASE!!!!!!!!

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 386
RE: playable yet? Part II - 6/29/2009 5:51:34 AM   
Grapeshot Bob


Posts: 642
Joined: 12/16/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Is the latest update any good?


GSB

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 387
RE: playable yet? Part II - 6/30/2009 4:34:35 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		still has issues with the russian fleets, transport fleet especially. battle files from multiple games cause trouble. Seems like many of the same issues.

(in reply to Grapeshot Bob)
Post #: 388
RE: playable yet? Part II - 6/30/2009 4:37:37 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		One thing I see with the games I am in, is the high drop out rate from Prussia and turkey. Let's admit it, they are, for most, the two worst nations to play (personally, if France comes through with some cash, Turkey can be quite fun). In a face to face group, players stay around out of loyality, or just to hang out a day with the group if nothing else. PBEM, it seems once things go south, many times those players are done and gone. Not much that can be done about it, but never the less a problem

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 389
RE: playable yet? Part II - 6/30/2009 1:56:47 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

still has issues with the russian fleets, transport fleet especially. battle files from multiple games cause trouble. Seems like many of the same issues.




I need to understand this because the battle files should not be a problem at all in 1.06???
Can you elaborate or get me a save of this???


_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to borner)
Post #: 390
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