Suggested readings?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Kharkov: Disaster on the Donets >> Suggested readings?

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Suggested readings? - 10/14/2008 2:31:28 PM

Llyranor

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From: Montreal, Canada
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Hi,

I'm interested in this game, and I'm also interested in getting some books to read up on the background/details re: this battle.

Are there any books (that are still available, preferably) anyone would recommend to read on this? Details on the plans, OoBs, maps, overview of the general situation in the overall area, witness accounts, and so on.

Thanks!

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RE: Suggested readings? - 10/14/2008 10:10:42 PM

jhdeerslayer

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David Glantz has a book, as he has many on the Eastern Front, but I found it so dry and hard to read I actually ended up selling it. All I know of that covered this time period in detail.

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RE: Suggested readings? - 10/14/2008 11:33:57 PM

Skeleton

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You might be interested in Antony Beevor's "Staligrad". Not actually about this battle, but does cover the battle for Staligrad and would be a good primer for the 50+ turn for the Staligrad scenario that hopefully will be out soon. I second Deerslayer's opinons of Mr. Glantz's books.

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RE: Suggested readings? - 10/15/2008 7:53:42 AM

Noakesy

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I've found a few books that contain references to this battle (e.g. a 10pp chapter, such as in the Paul Carrell books, although I know his view is somewhat 'tainted). I recall a book a few years ago along the lines of Zukhov and his disaster in 1942, so presumably this had something about it, I'll try and look it up.

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RE: Suggested readings? - 10/15/2008 2:42:30 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deerslayer

David Glantz has a book, as he has many on the Eastern Front, but I found it so dry and hard to read I actually ended up selling it. All I know of that covered this time period in detail.

This is the Glantz book on Kharkov:

http://www.amazon.com/KHARKOV-1942-ANATOMY-MILITARY-DISASTER/dp/B000PGI6TQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224077895&sr=1-3

I haven't read it yet, but will be checking it out from my boardgame buddies military library when I visit his house tomorrow night. I have perused it before and it appears to be the most detailed book I have ever seen on a particular battle. It has an unbelievably detailed OOB and I would be very surprised if the scenario designers did not use it as a reference.

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RE: Suggested readings? - 10/15/2008 3:26:53 PM

emcgman

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The Wikipedia (free internet encyclopedia) has a decent write up, with a couple pictures from the Glantz book.

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RE: Suggested readings? - 10/16/2008 1:35:24 AM

Gregor_SSG

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For me, the best parts of the Glantz book were the verbatim inclusions of Soviet high level military reports, studded with references to the sterling efforts of the Commissars in infusing the troops with the correct political thought (an absolute necessity without which victory was impossible) and the constant references, by people like Timoshenko and Zhukov, to the enemy as the 'German Fascist Invaders' or similarly emotive terminology. To me it shows how 'political' considerations permeated every facet and level of the Red Army's war.

Ian Trout owns the book, and when he's done with it I might post some of the choicer quotes.

Gregor

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RE: Suggested readings? - 10/16/2008 10:10:14 AM

Helpless

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG

To me it shows how 'political' considerations permeated every facet and level of the Red Army's war.

If you really want to study "considerations of every facet and level of the Red Army's war", i would suggest a "The collection of fighting documents of the Great Patriotic War" in 43 volumes ( http://militera.lib.ru/docs/da/sbd/index.html) (sorry, you need to learn Russian

)In most of the cases I find them to be absolutely 'non-political' on every level, i.e. Germans are just "enemy" (противник) or "germans" (немцы).

And yes, I agree that Glantz books are very good.

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RE: Suggested readings? - 10/26/2008 7:24:29 AM

SS Hauptsturmfuhrer

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I have the book David Glantz 'Kharkov 1942' and really liked it. I'm going to read it again after I get through some other battle books. The battle descriptions from both sides are exciting. The story has a surreal feeling to it because the Soviet accounts describe them crushing the Germans and killing troops and destroying many tanks all the way through the battle. A lot of their description is true like how they used artillery and advanced easily through the German lines in the opening phase while bypassing entrenched groups in villages, but even when the Germans finally start to get back on their feet and put their tactics to work, the Soviets still sound like they are easily winning. It seems a miracle that the Germans held their thin line around the east side against massive numbers of Soviet troops and tanks hitting them simultaneously from both sides. It's like reading about a Popeye versus Brutus fight cause it really sounds like the Germans are getting trashed even after they complete the encirclement.

The book starts out with extremely detailed information about Soviet formations and smaller section on the Germans. This can be quickly read through and does not need to be memorized although it shows how different Soviet and German force compositions are. When the battle starts, it will for sure hold your attention until the final triumph.

Anyone who loves military fiction and the Eastern Front must read this rare account.

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RE: Suggested readings? - 12/2/2008 12:44:39 AM

SS Hauptsturmfuhrer

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Another good read is After the Battle 'The Four Battles for Kharkov'. This picture book gives details about each fight during WW2 for the city and has a nice feature where they take photos of today's Kharkov and show the exact same photos during WW2. Kharkov has the biggest square, which is actually round, of any city and the photos show the hugeness of it and the massive, creepy buildings smoldering from Soviet scored earth tactics. So like in photo you can see a horrible street covered in wreckage and a dismal mood and the modern photo of the exact same place shows a nice smooth street and buildings mostly without holes in them. It's cool to see German armoured units and troops in the streets and then the modern Russian situation. Many of the buildings are still there today like the Univermag which shows German troops infront of it and today the exact same building and letters on it are still there. Very cool. The spooky city seems like such a perfect place to have a big urban fight.

There's even an old British MK IV tank from WW1 on display in the massive square (Russians used them in WW1) which shows German troops and vehicles around it and the same tank is still there today. That means, the safest place to hide a baby during the battles would have been inside that tank. Good thing no tank gunner thought, "Hey, maybe I should kinduv lob a shell at that tin box just to make sure nobody's baby is safely hidden in it." Note that this book does not cover this 1942 battle in much detail and is not one of the four mentioned in the title because the focus of the book is on the fights that happened in the city.

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RE: Suggested readings? - 12/2/2008 9:44:55 AM

Helpless

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Here is a scan of book "Battle of Kharkov in May 1942" - http://tourist.kharkov.ua/1942/index.htm

Although it is in Russian it has many photos with annotations in English.

Attachment (1)

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Pavel Zagzin
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RE: Suggested readings? - 12/2/2008 11:53:24 AM

oldspec4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Here is a scan of book "Battle of Kharkov in May 1942" - http://tourist.kharkov.ua/1942/index.htm

Although it is in Russian it has many photos with annotations in English.

Thanks for the link...lots of good info and pictures. BTW, I used the Google translator to get to the English version.

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RE: Suggested readings? - 12/2/2008 1:35:18 PM

Helpless

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Oh that's good, I thought that the whole page is just a scanned pic

I found interesting that at least 1/3 of Soviet tanks in SouthWest and Southern fronts in 1942 where British Matilda and Valentine. Would be good to see them on unit's tiles as well

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Pavel Zagzin
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Post #: 13