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RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/13/2009 6:26:23 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		IIRC Buzz did -ve shock in the last version or 2 of his mod for hte mud turns & we played it up to T40 - seemed fine as I recall - but there was another bug after that...:/

I don't recall what value he had tho.

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Post #: 151
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/13/2009 6:32:42 AM   
fogger

 

Posts: 1446
Joined: 9/17/2006
Status: offline 		My file is dated 22 Oct 08 and I think the negative shock is a good idea.

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Post #: 152
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/13/2009 7:29:17 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Sorry about that Mr. Fogger. When the cease turns end, you can take one of your naval units and move him around the Baltic to convert those hexes for the next cease period. Can't do anything with the lake areas though, as no naval units can get there.

Except for Elmer, he can reconstitute naval units on the lakes. We have changed it so that fleet is ordered to withdraw when Leningrad falls.




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Post #: 153
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/13/2009 7:34:26 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

I don't recall what value he had tho.



Based on what I saw with a value of 80, I was thinking it could be a good bit less than that. A wise man has told me that 75 should be low enough. I haven't run any tests yet to see what might be best.

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Post #: 154
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/13/2009 12:12:23 PM   
fogger

 

Posts: 1446
Joined: 9/17/2006
Status: offline 		No problem. Just giving feedback and my Christian name is John.

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Post #: 155
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/13/2009 7:33:00 PM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Sorry about that Mr. Fogger. When the cease turns end, you can take one of your naval units and move him around the Baltic to convert those hexes for the next cease period. Can't do anything with the lake areas though, as no naval units can get there.

Except for Elmer, he can reconstitute naval units on the lakes. We have changed it so that fleet is ordered to withdraw when Leningrad falls.

Darn, I thought I'd fixed that. I wonder what went wrong?

_____________________________

Ralph Trickey
TOAW IV Programmer
Blog: http://operationalwarfare.com
---
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

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Post #: 156
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/13/2009 8:06:12 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
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From: east coast, usa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Sorry about that Mr. Fogger. When the cease turns end, you can take one of your naval units and move him around the Baltic to convert those hexes for the next cease period. Can't do anything with the lake areas though, as no naval units can get there.

Except for Elmer, he can reconstitute naval units on the lakes. We have changed it so that fleet is ordered to withdraw when Leningrad falls.

Darn, I thought I'd fixed that. I wonder what went wrong?


Elmer is crafty, he has ways around trickey blockades

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Post #: 157
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/13/2009 11:18:57 PM   
Pax25

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 4/2/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

Hey you guys....I sent out the version I have ( which is the one Steve Sill sent to me to playtest without any changes ) to so many guys I decided to upload it on a server so you can just retrieve it yourselves without any intermediary. Steve says it's okay to do this. You can find Directive 21.zip at this url:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d47f0a15d1c4feb0d2db6fb9a8902bda

enjoy.

When you get to the website just click on the Directive 21.zip name and you'll get another webpage to click on a button to start the download.


Thanks for posting this scenerio. I downloaded it last night and played Turn 1. It took me 2 1/2 hours to play the latter 50% of my turn. I didn't keep track of the first half, but it was probably about the same amount of time spent. This seems like a great scenerio (I have never played FITE PBEM so it should be interesting), but how do you guys find the time to complete these things? Any advice on faster play? I'm not sure I can spend 5 hours a night playing one turn.

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Post #: 158
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/14/2009 12:21:51 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pax25
Thanks for posting this scenerio. I downloaded it last night and played Turn 1. It took me 2 1/2 hours to play the latter 50% of my turn. I didn't keep track of the first half, but it was probably about the same amount of time spent. This seems like a great scenerio (I have never played FITE PBEM so it should be interesting), but how do you guys find the time to complete these things?

For me it's a labor of love playing FITE and it's variants. I'm retired and don't have anything else to do all day but those of you who have a Real Life and have to work for a living etc., married, etc. must have really bad time constraints.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pax25
Any advice on faster play?

I go through the order of battle when deciding where to move a unit to where and that way nobody gets skipped, but it must be faster to just start at the top of the map and start moving units until you get to the bottom of the map and there's nobody else to move. But you run into the problem of maybe having skipped moving somebody somehow.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pax25
I'm not sure I can spend 5 hours a night playing one turn.

I've been known to save the turn from one day to the next, naming the file a different name from the last save so I don't run into the problem of "re-loading a turn". It usually takes me all day to do all 7 or 8 combat rounds of an Axis FITE turn. All day is defined as at least 8 hours maybe more. But then I usually concentrate on my PBEM moves more than I do on my playtesting moves ( "Directive 21" scenario ). Curt Chambers and I are playing FITE PBEM and are averaging about 0.9 turns per day so far. It's probably getting to be a chore for Curt since he works for a living maybe.....but I can get up at 02:00 and work until about 06:30 and save my moves. And go back to bed to take a nap. Then up about 10:30 or so and hit it again for a few hours. I find that it's important to have time to think about the situation before any rash moves take place.

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Post #: 159
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/14/2009 4:55:20 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Partisans - ah....so I can use all those security and Hungarian units in the front line then!! :)

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Post #: 160
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/14/2009 8:34:28 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		So um......I think I may have a problem. I went to the menu and started to choose "computer player" but my finger slipped on the mouse and I chose "End Turn" instead with the result that there was no Soviet turn 50. And I didn't save the turn as a file either, so now I'm trying to decide if I should start over or just carry on without a Soviet turn 50? What do you guys think?




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Post #: 161
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/14/2009 8:37:46 PM   
hmota

 

Posts: 58
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From: czech
Status: offline 		My first try in Dir 21 scen...map after 1st Turn...Russians lost 92 units and 2100airplanes...my losses 155 airframes...I move two SS div to the south to help hungarian army to strike north...I get three combat rounds with land units and another two with air units...




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< Message edited by hmota -- 1/14/2009 8:40:23 PM >

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Post #: 162
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/14/2009 9:24:02 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work
Partisans - ah....so I can use all those security and Hungarian units in the front line then!! :)

So um......yes the Hungarians are available to use but there was a ton of security forces that aren't present in D21 as units presumably because they were off chasing partisans somewhere.

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Post #: 163
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/14/2009 9:26:10 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hmota
I get three combat rounds with land units and another two with air units...


So um....you run your attacks separately ( land and air )? I usually just lump them in together and hope for the best. Or maybe I don't understand what you mean.

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Post #: 164
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/14/2009 10:29:36 PM   
Pax25

 

Posts: 119
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

I go through the order of battle when deciding where to move a unit to where and that way nobody gets skipped, but it must be faster to just start at the top of the map and start moving units until you get to the bottom of the map and there's nobody else to move. But you run into the problem of maybe having skipped moving somebody somehow.


Thanks for the reply. I use a similar system where I start by analyzing the entire board and make all obvious moves first (ie.-those applicable to my overall strategy). Then I go through the entire OOB, centering on each HQ and looking at each formation for all units with MPs remaining. I move, dig in, or place on reserve those units, then I resolve attacks and repeat the whole process.

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Post #: 165
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/15/2009 3:35:56 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
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From: east coast, usa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work
Partisans - ah....so I can use all those security and Hungarian units in the front line then!! :)

So um......yes the Hungarians are available to use but there was a ton of security forces that aren't present in D21 as units presumably because they were off chasing partisans somewhere.


Just a clarification, all original security units are in D21, but they are slowly withdrawn every five turns up until turn 25, to simulate the needed increase in rear area security. A few units stay in until later.

The Hungarians were used in the front lines, weren't they?




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Post #: 166
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/15/2009 4:38:39 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

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From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Larry I suggest forgoing your own T51 to even things up.

And yes the Hungarians were used in hte front lines "in real life"...but one of their armies is full of "SEC" units, and lets face it - generally the German allies aren't that flash! :/

So I've been keeping all the German MP and SEC units, both Hungarian armies and the Slovaks as rear area garrisons awaiting the expected partisans.

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Post #: 167
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/15/2009 4:47:39 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work
Larry I suggest forgoing your own T51 to even things up.


I did skip the next available Axis turn but then it seemed that the Soviets were getting an unfair advantage and besides I have a railroad engineer who keeps spawning off-rail and therefore useless so I thought I'd just start over with a newer version of Directive 21.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work
So I've been keeping all the German MP and SEC units, both Hungarian armies and the Slovaks as rear area garrisons awaiting the expected partisans.

I got to turn 50 and didn't see any partisans to chase down and kill.

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Post #: 168
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/15/2009 5:12:26 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Hey this newest version of Directive 21: somebody moved the Pioneers to somewhere else. Now I have to go look for them when I need an engineer. Drat.




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RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/15/2009 5:42:50 AM   
hmota

 

Posts: 58
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From: czech
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: hmota
I get three combat rounds with land units and another two with air units...


So um....you run your attacks separately ( land and air )? I usually just lump them in together and hope for the best. Or maybe I don't understand what you mean.


first three round I attack together with air and land units (first round takes 30% of turn, second 20% and third 10%) after that I have zero MP on land units so I can´t attack further...so another two rounds I attack with air

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Post #: 170
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/15/2009 10:36:40 AM   
sPzAbt653


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From: east coast, usa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

...awaiting the expected partisans.



Sorry about that SMK. I left a lot out of the briefing because I didn't want to make it unbearably long, and let's face it, who reads them anyway? I've been working on rewriting the original background document that they put together for FitE so that we will have a D21 specific document that is easy to navigate.

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Post #: 171
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/15/2009 10:50:45 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
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From: east coast, usa
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quote:

... somebody moved the Pioneers to somewhere else.


OKH pioneer and artillery units are now under the Korps Hq's that they were associated with. It doesn't in any way change how you can use them, but it's a different way of locating them. I think after a few turns you get used to it. Maybe a little longer for us old timers that have been playing with the original setup for several years.

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Post #: 172
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/16/2009 5:17:19 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

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From: New Zealand
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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work
Larry I suggest forgoing your own T51 to even things up.


I did skip the next available Axis turn but then it seemed that the Soviets were getting an unfair advantage


Yeah...you've captured Leningrad and Stalingrad and the Sov's are getting an "unfair" advantage....awww...you poor thing - let's have a hug for Larry! lol


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Post #: 173
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/16/2009 8:09:27 PM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		T50 in my game & I might bring it to a close soon - there are only 348 soviet units in play this turn, many of which are air units and border/recce regts.  Plus Elmer has put some of them in really strange positions which isn't helping him.

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Post #: 174
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/16/2009 8:54:21 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work
Yeah...you've captured Leningrad and Stalingrad and the Sov's are getting an "unfair" advantage....awww...you poor thing - let's have a hug for Larry! lol


Thanks, I needed that hug !

quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work
T50 in my game & I might bring it to a close soon - there are only 348 soviet units in play this turn, many of which are air units and border/recce regts. Plus Elmer has put some of them in really strange positions which isn't helping him.


Bring it to a close? Why not go after those 348 units? What cities have you captured so far? What's the Soviet production rate for Rifle Squads? What do the front lines look like? Pictures, I need pictures.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 1/16/2009 8:56:06 PM >

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Post #: 175
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/17/2009 12:25:22 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		I'll do a gif of hte last 20 turns this afternoon - Sov rifle squad replacement rate is 469, with about 11000 in service and 135,000 dead....I've just captured Gorki with an advanced recce Regt & survived the counterattack, am adjacent to Maikop with a Pz Gren division and am 1 move away from Astrakhan - although it is garrisoned and that Pz div went into reorg - thought I'd play on for a bit to see how the shock 80 affedcts things....

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Post #: 176
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/17/2009 12:29:32 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

I'll do a gif of hte last 20 turns this afternoon - Sov rifle squad replacement rate is 469, with about 11000 in service and 135,000 dead....I've just captured Gorki with an advanced recce Regt & survived the counterattack, am adjacent to Maikop with a Pz Gren division and am 1 move away from Astrakhan - although it is garrisoned and that Pz div went into reorg - thought I'd play on for a bit to see how the shock 80 affedcts things....

And you did all this in just 50 turns? My hat is off to you dude. Sounds like you could teach me a trick or two since I'm nowhere near what you've accomplished.

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Post #: 177
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/17/2009 3:05:34 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Larry you just got to be completely ruthless - Elmer can't handle a swarming attack that doesn't really maintain a solid front, so any unit that was in orange or better got pushed into the nearest gap (whilst keeping divisions mostly together....)

Here's how turns 24-33 went - IIRC up until the mud ceasefire - in 2 turn chunks 'cos it'll only let me upload that much at a time :(

Turns 24-25:




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Post #: 178
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/17/2009 3:06:25 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		T26-27:





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Post #: 179
RE: Directive 21 playtesters thread - 1/17/2009 3:07:04 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		T28-29:





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