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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T157

 
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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T157 - 3/30/2009 4:33:28 AM   
Raindem

 

Posts: 696
Joined: 7/15/2000
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		Soviet Winter Offensive, December 1942 –

I hadn’t planned on starting my offensive until turn 162. However, my unexpected break in central Finland has caused me to reconsider.  Larry has responded aggressively and unless I call his raise I’ll quickly lose the initiave that I have (at least temporarily) gained in this sector.  So I accelerated my preparations and launched the offensive on Turn 153, 12/6/42, about a month early.

My plan was for a large pincer movement to eradicate the bulge in the Donetz bend.  If you'll look back a page or two in this thread you'll see that Larry had correctly predicted my objectives, although he probably didn't know exactly where the blow was going to fall.  The northern hook will strike out towards Krasny Liman’, mainly due to the three rail lines that exit the city and cross the Donetz.  If I can capture those bridges I’ll be able to threaten a lot of real estate.  The southern hook launches out of Shakty.  I had wanted to use Rostov as a base and follow the coast but Larry has insisted on keeping up insane pressure on the city.  There’s no point in attacking his strongest concentration of units.  The 2 pincers will meet in the vicinity of Stalino.


Although you don’t see it in the picture there is some serious hardware gathered for the northern pincer.  I had to keep it dispersed until the last minute so as to not give away my plans.  I couldn’t hide the southern concentration but since Larrry was used to seeing a lot of troops down there maybe they wouldn’t draw much attention.

The first week of the offensive went well.  Both my pincers achieved good progress.  In the north they entered Krasny Limon and even captured an intact bridge over the Donetz.  In the south the spearhead kept kareening northward due to the heavy concentration of enemy troops across from Rostov.  I need to get it back on line otherwise the 2 pincers might miss each other completely.

Central Finland is also creaking under the weight of the offensive.  Bolstered by my shock bonus even the lowly NKVD divisions are gaining ground.  I’ve got an army in reserve there.  If I commit it at the right time and place I might be able to drive the Finns back across the isthmus.


Elsewhere my attacks are constant, if unspectacular.  I am attacking literally every point along the line.  For every attack that succeeds four will fail.  But that 1 success is all I need to rush some armor into the breach and start wreaking havoc.

As of Turn 157 I have a bridgehead across the Donetz.  Both spearheads have been reinforced with fresh armies. I might have to take a turn to swap out the tired units for fresh ones. There’s a few other places on the line (see Larry’s diagram) that I’ve also had some unexpected success so I’m rushing reinforcements to those areas to take advantage of the breach.

Updates to follow.


< Message edited by Raindem -- 4/6/2009 3:03:09 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 661
RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T157 - 3/30/2009 6:27:42 AM   
Da_Huge_D

 

Posts: 195
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Status: offline 		Great report so far.
Keep it coming guys!

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Post #: 662
RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T158 - 3/30/2009 8:47:40 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the minimap moves movie showing the progress that Curt's northern pincer has made in just one turn. The speed of the pincer has caught me off guard.....I haven't yet seriously started my pullback to the south bank of the river and that bulge to the east is in serious danger of being surrounded and destroyed. I should point out here that the units plugging the gaps in my line in this area are tired depleated units that won't hold long and this real estate will entirely be in Soviet hands shortly. In disengaging my Axis units from the front line there are invariably units that move only one hex, get labeled "retreated", and are unable to move further that turn. I expect that to happen to most of them as I attempt to pull out from the bulge and head southwest to avoid the trap that's being sprung by the Soviets.




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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T158 - 3/30/2009 8:54:47 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		The Axis losses as of turn 158 show the number of assigned HRS units to be about 9,000 less that it was in turn 154 and at this rate of burn I'll have no HRS's in about 11 turns or so.

Long range plans at this point: I think I'll try using the Romanians and Hungarians to hold the line while I attempt to pull the Axis units back almost to Berlin blowing bridges as I go and try to put up some kinda defensive line line like in the picture below.

It may be too late for that already however, so I'm playing it by ear at this point. A pull-back or destruction by the Soviets, either way there's going to be major changes to the game. I see this game ending sometime in early '43.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 3/30/2009 8:55:21 PM >

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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T158 - 3/30/2009 9:07:06 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the front lines as of the end of turn 158. Everywhere you see a red line penetrating the blue line....that's where the breakthrough is occuring. There are several of them. I get the impression that Curt didn't count on his offensive to be this successful. I think the breaking of my line(s) in so many places caught him by surprize. I know I'm still shocked by it. The profound lack of supply ( winter causes the supply level to drop to single digits ) and lack of a reserve anywhere, and the general overstretched nature of the front lines has compounded to produce the results you see happening. I think Curt is going all the way this time. Even after the offensive is over and the shock levels go back to what they were before I think Curt will try to push his advantage. Even if he loses 1/4 of his divisions attacking me he knows he can afford to do that. So I think the attacking will go on until it's over. At least that's what I would do in his situation.

I predict that Curt will either destroy all the Finns or capture Helsinki and eliminate the Finns from the conflict. Capturing Budapest shouldn't be all that much of a task to eliminate the Hungarians....on the other hand it wouldn't cost all that much to just destroy them instead, since the Axis minors don't reconstitute after they die.

I should have started a major pullback before this situation got this far. Hitler wouldn't let us pull back....I'll use that as an excuse.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 3/30/2009 9:11:22 PM >

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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T158 - 4/1/2009 3:23:59 AM   
Raindem

 

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You can mark Turn 159 as the official turning point of the war.  Larry has decided to conduct a general withdrawal back to safer waters.  This micromap shows the long columns of German troops steaming westward.


To respond to this change of events I'm moving a large section of my air force from combat support to interdiction.  I also plan to step up attacks along the frontier to take advantage of his weakened defenses.  This withdrawal will truly put Larry's skills to the test as he is conducting it under difficult circumstances.

My primary offensive in the south is still forging ahead, although it's lost some of its luster now that I know I'm not going to bag an entire army.  Larry's decision to pull back now might cost him some terrain, but it certainly saved a large number of units from being cut off.  Each of my spearheads is already 1/2 way to it's objective and the northern pincer just punched another gaping hole.


If Larry had waited just a couple more turns I believe all his forces in the Donetz bend would have been trapped.  Now they'll live to fight another day.


_____________________________

Grab them by the balls. Their hearts and minds will follow.

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Post #: 666
RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T160 - 4/1/2009 7:20:38 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		As you can see in the picture below about 1/3 of the Axis forces are making their way to the west. I lost my nerve and decided to bug out. I'm planning on pulling back almost to Berlin and making a new line there. Maybe the other 2/3 of the Army will buy some time for me to rest up the tired ones and get organized before the Soviets come knocking on Berlin's door.

I need to pull back that far because of the overstretched nature of the front lines where they were....I need shorter front lines to do it some justice and try to hold in place for another three years ( 43, 44, and part of 45 ). I'm counting on those units that reconstitute to flesh out the weak areas in the new line I'm going to make. A short rest and they will be good as new. It might work.




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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T161 - 4/2/2009 4:10:11 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the Axis losses so far. The number of HRS squads assigned is about 13,000 less than before the start of the Soviet '42 Winter offensive. Curt reports that he's lost about that many rifle squads so far during this offensive.




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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T163 - 4/4/2009 5:52:37 AM   
larryfulkerson


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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I've managed to plug some holes temporarily and hold back most of the Soviet surges but now it looks like he's breaking through in force and will soon surround and destroy most of my guys. I've marked the picture below with green arrows where the major breakthroughs are occuring. Most of the guys making their way west haven't arrived in Germany yet so it looks like there may be a race going on to see who gets there first. Maybe I should leave some road blocks behind to guarantee that I get there first?




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 4/4/2009 5:53:07 AM >

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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T163 - 4/4/2009 5:18:23 PM   
Raindem

 

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Turn 163-

The eastern front is starting to disinigrate.  The central and southern sectors are breaking down into a series of small pockets of a few units each.



The largest encirclements are ocurring in the south, where the units in the Donetz bend are already cut off and the units near Rostov are being outflanked to the north.  They've got a couple more turns at best.



You'll notice from this map that my northern pincer reached its original stop line at Stalino (did that last turn).  But the southern spearhead pretty much stalled.  The only time it made any foward progress was when Larry decided to conduct the general withdrawal.  That leads me to believe that if Larry had stood fast the operational goals would not have been attained.  Of course the front may have shattered somewhere else.  Hindsight.

In the north and Finland Larry is holding up pretty good, except where I made the lake crossing at the beginning of the offensive.  I plan to focus my forces on a couple weak spots in the Finnish frontage and drive straight to Helsinki.  Only when Finland is out of the war will I be able to leverage out the northern third of the front.


_____________________________

Grab them by the balls. Their hearts and minds will follow.

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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T160 - 4/4/2009 6:01:29 PM   
Silvanski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
I'm planning on pulling back almost to Berlin and making a new line there.


I imaging the Fuhrer dude will be furious about that pull-out


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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T164 - 4/5/2009 1:57:12 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Hitler is already ending his sentences in prepositions and yelling at Gobbels at the top of his lungs. I'm not answering my phone for the next six months. Here's the front lines as of the start of turn 164:




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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T164 - 4/5/2009 4:05:22 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the Axis losses so far.

I'm moving my dudes headed west so that they might end up in their divisional organization again. Sometimes that's not possible but for the most part that's what I'm trying to do.




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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T165 - 4/5/2009 8:25:46 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what the front lines look like now. I don't get it....he doesn't seem to want to pursue my guys. Maybe his hands are full surrounding the part of the army that stayed in the east.




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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T165 - 4/6/2009 12:23:38 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's a little movie showing my guys racing away from the sound of the artillery ( turns 161 throu 165 ).




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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T165 - 4/6/2009 3:01:02 AM   
Silvanski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Here's a little movie showing my guys racing away from the sound of the artillery ( turns 161 throu 165 ).

Seems your dudes in the south are toast


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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T165 - 4/6/2009 3:07:26 AM   
desert


Posts: 827
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		The Germans never managing to penetrate into the Crimea is just weird...

_____________________________

"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall

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Post #: 677
RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T166 - 4/6/2009 7:24:23 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		It's worse than wierd....it's disgusting. Anyway, here's the picture of the front lines as of the start of turn 166. The Soviets are spilling out all over the place. The Axis units in the south are pretty much wrapped up and those in the north are next I guess.

Curt reports that he's run into a shortage of a few good engineers.




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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T165 - 4/6/2009 7:54:12 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

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Status: offline 		yah but he put a lot more effort into going further east elsewhere - much more fun doin' ur own thing :)


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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T165 - 4/6/2009 10:29:58 AM   
Da_Huge_D

 

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Status: offline 		In my opinion, Larry, you should pull back northern line almost to Leningrad, and try keep that city long as you can.

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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T165 - 4/7/2009 6:47:21 AM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Da_Huge_D
In my opinion, Larry, you should pull back northern line almost to Leningrad, and try keep that city long as you can.


Yeah, I'd do that but I'd lose my entrenchment value and so what if he gains Leningrad? I admit there is good terrain to defend in around there but still.....

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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T168 - 4/8/2009 5:59:43 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the front lines as of the start of turn 168. The Soviet equipment is beginning to venture out and grab real estate. Curt is trying to do two things at the same time....destroy some Axis equipment and grab terrain. I think he's got enough units to do that with ease. My engineers and late arrivers are blowing bridges as fast as they come to them so the Soviet dude will have his hands full trying to re-build them.




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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T165 - 4/8/2009 11:19:43 PM   
Raindem

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

yah but he put a lot more effort into going further east elsewhere - much more fun doin' ur own thing :)



That's the real key to this particular match between Larry and I. I had vastly overbuilt my southern forces in anticipation of a move by Larry, not to mention my own offensive designs in the area. Larry clearly won the contest of force ratio placement by holding steady in the south and making huge gains in the north. Even now, as most of the eastern front is falling apart, I can't budge those northern troops. I'm just going to have to wait until they are surrounded.




_____________________________

Grab them by the balls. Their hearts and minds will follow.

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Post #: 683
RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T171 - 4/12/2009 12:05:23 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I've put a token force in Helsinki but it won't hold the Soviets back very long. So the Finns are done for. Curt is advancing slowly everywhere else and I'm not sure he knows that taking the capitals of the minor countries will eliminate them from the game as well. Given the speed of his advance I'd say it will be at the earliest late spring or summer before he meets my new front lines. So we're looking at very little game action until turn 200 or so. And by then there will only be 200 turns left give or take. I'm not sure it's possible to hold the Soviet dude back for 200 turns with the force I have left but that's the situation I'm going to have.

Anyway, here's the front lines at the start of turn 171:




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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T176 - 4/15/2009 7:22:16 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the front lines at turn 176. Curt is still creaping slowly westward in small groups grabbing terrain and stuff like that.






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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T176 - 4/15/2009 10:47:42 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

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Status: offline 		have u been tempted to send out some hard hitting mobile units (Pz Corps?) to smack over his lead troops while the bulk are still well to the rear?

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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T176 - 4/16/2009 2:50:45 AM   
Raindem

 

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I'm not intentionally advancing slowly.  With a shortage of engineers and huge pockets of German troops still in the rear, I'm moving about as fast as my little feet will carry me.

There's no way I could ever quickly poke through Larry's defensive line anyway.  So I might as well take my time and get the whole army in place before the next phase of the campaign.


_____________________________

Grab them by the balls. Their hearts and minds will follow.

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Post #: 687
RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T181 - 4/19/2009 8:59:26 PM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work
have u been tempted to send out some hard hitting mobile units (Pz Corps?) to smack over his lead troops while the bulk are still well to the rear?

Oh, have I ever. I thought about it many a time and always decided that maybe it'd be best if I conserve my strength for the coming battles. I've waited too long to attack his forward scouts now and the troops bringing up the rear are in the area available to help out now. Here's the abbrev. version of the front lines as of the start of turn 181:




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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T181 - 4/19/2009 9:37:27 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Helsinki is under seige and can't hold out for very long. That means the Finns will go bye bye soon.




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RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T181 - 4/20/2009 3:23:17 AM   
Silvanski


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From: Belgium, residing in TX-USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkersonHere's the abbrev. version of the front lines as of the start of turn 181:


Dang, that's one heck of a Festung Deutschland there. It'll be interesting to see how this one's gonna turn out


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