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RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps

 
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RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 9/28/2010 8:08:54 PM   
RD Oddball

 

Posts: 4836
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline 		Here's the elevations for Meyerode in that area Michael.




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RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 9/29/2010 2:31:21 AM   
Tejszd

 

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Status: offline 		Looking at the map coding it could be one of those situations where the green line is through the windows on both sides of the building.....

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RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 9/30/2010 6:49:37 PM   
RD Oddball

 

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Status: offline 		That's exactly what I was thinking.

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RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 10/1/2010 3:59:11 PM   
davidss

 

Posts: 343
Joined: 12/10/2009
Status: offline 		I think you are right ... Line of Sight through two windows.
But, if WaR is coded the same as TLD (I don't own WaR) ... then this should not happen.

This is the window coding for TLD:
Can terrain block LOS? 1 = True
Can terrain block LOS even when adjacent? 0 = False


In my opinion ... this system of coding seems to work very well

Coded as above, you can get Line of Sight "through" when you are right beside a building window, but not when aimed at from a further distance away. Sometimes you can get Line of Sight through to the other side of a building with a parallel window ... but the through building Line of Sight won't extend very far past the other side of the building (if at all) ... unless it's on the corner of a building.
For example: if a tank finds a building where it can get Line of Sight through the corner of a building (due to closeness of window/door on either side) ... then it kind of makes sense, since tanks could set up in ambush methods like this. But notice a tank from a further distance away along the same (but opposing side), Line of Sight will not be able to get Line of Sight "through" ... due to not being adjacent to the building.

So, if WaR is coded this way (as above) the only explanation for the depicted Line of Sight error would be that Line of Sight is being made through diagonal single tiles ... where they only join at corners. This can be fixed by doubling the tile to fill in the the single diagonal corner joint leak.




< Message edited by davidss -- 10/1/2010 10:46:32 PM >

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RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 10/1/2010 10:27:21 PM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
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From: Australia
Status: offline 		Elements coding for windows in WaR is as you state davidss

Can terrain block LOS? 1 = True
Can terrain block LOS even when adjacent? 0 = False




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Post #: 65
RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 3/3/2011 10:02:45 AM   
Platoon_Michael


Posts: 1119
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Status: offline 		Any chance of adding a few locations for troops to cross on Longvilly?

If the AI deploys in this area there is no means for them to cross the river leaving them virtually useless during Battle.

Or has something been done to Deep Water to help prevent this from happening?

Thanks




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RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 6/23/2011 10:02:06 AM   
Platoon_Michael


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Status: offline 		Have to admit that Soldier/Vehicle pathfinding are much better with the new patch.
Especially when it comes to getting Troops to navigate around Deep Water.
I haven't tested it yet but how well do they do on Sheer Cliff?

Map codding looks to be much much better,I can hide behind houses again.
I do wish however you would have been more consistent with the .OVM's
Some Maps have tree shadows on them and some don't.
I REALLY wish you would have went with adding the Trees and Shadows to the .OVM's and increased the clarity as well.
Just makes the game look a lot better.
Maybe not as obnoxiously large as what I did but more clarity would help.
Some maps just have that fuzzy look to them when viewing the .OVM

< Message edited by Platoon_Michael -- 6/23/2011 10:14:53 AM >

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RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 6/23/2011 2:21:16 PM   
hank

 

Posts: 623
Joined: 8/24/2003
From: west tn
Status: offline 		+1 on the OP's comments regarding tanks ... their movement ... turret rotation ... etc.

As I command a Sherman, I would love to be able to sneak past a building; rotate my turret to to back side of a Panther or Tiger that I've painstakingly maneuvered to get a side or butt shot; pop a round, then back behind the building again. I've never been successful at doing that. Most of the time the tank wants to spend valuable time aligning the front before shooting ... while the Panther simply rotates its turret and blows my guy to oblivion.

See this thread from COI:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2155491

Observation on Tanks

I'll be loading this up tonight

< Message edited by hank -- 6/23/2011 2:24:35 PM >

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RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 6/23/2011 2:29:26 PM   
RD Oddball

 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the suggestion Hank. The preference is to have the front of the hull facing the enemy since that is typically the part of the tank that can withstand the most damage, which you probably know. But to your point a good enhancement to the AI would be to have it understand the concept of time and situations where time was of the essence and for it to make a judgement call based on threat assessment and advantage of firing vs. adjusting the hull position. Sounds like it'd be a tough problem to solve but certainly worth considering and looking into.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoon_Michael

I haven't tested it yet but how well do they do on Sheer Cliff?...


Should react just as well regardless of the obstacle. If you see any issues with pathfinding please report them so that we may look into it. Will need the usual support info. i.e. screenshot, description of the exact scenario when you noticed the issue, what was happening, what you were doing or attempting to do, etc.

quote:

...Some Maps have tree shadows on them and some don't....


Which map and where on the map? Post screenshots of any you find and they'll get taken care of.

quote:

I REALLY wish you would have went with adding the Trees and Shadows to the .OVM's and increased the clarity as well.
The suggestion has been made. Will consider it for future updates.


< Message edited by RD_Oddball -- 6/23/2011 2:41:37 PM >

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Post #: 69
RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 6/24/2011 2:49:57 AM   
Platoon_Michael


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Status: offline 		I ment on the .OVM's
Some .OVM's have tree shadows and some don't.

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RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 6/24/2011 1:25:43 PM   
RD Oddball

 

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Status: offline 		Ah okay. Thanks for clarifying.

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RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 6/24/2011 8:06:08 PM   
hank

 

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From: west tn
Status: offline 		I just got it reloaded last night and its been several months since I played last ... plus I'm a newb to the CC series ... but, with that said

I recall firing off a shot at a panther's side and it simply rotated its turret to my guy a killed him dead as a doorknob. For some reason it did not feel a need to turn its front to my tank. ... I'll be very observant of such things this weekend as I reaquaint myself with CC:WAR.

fwiw: I've played many many hour (days or weeks or months) of tank sim(s) ... from M1 Tank Platton thru Armored Fist(s) and Steelbeasts. That's where I get a lot of my tank talk.

Which leads me to another topic: I don't recall if there is any indication of when your armor reaches a hull down position. Is there, and I've just missed it?

Thanks for this fine game

< Message edited by hank -- 6/24/2011 8:08:02 PM >

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Post #: 72
RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 6/27/2011 12:09:17 AM   
RD Oddball

 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for posting the feedback Hank. We had one user report that tanks weren't firing until they aligned their front to the target. So I guess it's as I've been seeing and that results in this respect are mixed. Sometimes the tank won't fire until the hull is front to enemy and sometimes it fires on the fly without worrying about aligning the hull.

There isn't an indication of hull down that I'm aware of. If there is maybe it'd be a good idea to make it more obvious.

< Message edited by RD_Oddball -- 6/27/2011 12:10:59 AM >

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Post #: 73
RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 6/27/2011 5:56:30 PM   
hank

 

Posts: 623
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From: west tn
Status: offline 		Thanks

IMHO when a game allows control over individual pieces of equipment, those controls should allow the player to mimic reality. For armor, things like backing up, rotating turrets, simulating the armor ratings, etc. are vitally important.

In Battlefield Academy, they let the player move the tank (slow or fast) to a firing position then if a round is fired from that position to any point not in front, the turret rotates and fires. This of course can lead to a fatal side shot but its the players choice whether to turn the tank or not.
However, they left out one very very important feature: the ability to back up. They added it in the latest patch after several of us complained.

I can see the CC series having similar controls for armor. I have been successful the last few days backing up my armor after a shot and I have even been able to position the tank so the attack angle (after I stick my nose from behind a building) ... minimizes the time it takes to turn and face the enemy before shooting. I was so glad to see a couple of Panthers go up in smoke while playing the Houtton battle with these tactics.

Having the ability to rotate the turret to a firing angle other than to the front allows that much used tactic of fire and move. ... critical to survival it is.

< Message edited by hank -- 6/28/2011 2:34:49 PM >

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RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 6/28/2011 5:42:19 AM   
Southernland


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Status: offline 		Mirco-managing helps, add several waypoints just pror to where you want your tank to stop, the line between the final two in the derection you want the tank facing.

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Post #: 75
RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 7/24/2012 4:23:45 PM   
Platoon_Michael


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Status: offline 		I'm just kinda wondering if anything can/should be done to the Troisvierges Map?


Starting at The Old Town VL and moving South/Southwest the Elevation just climbs so severely that the Elevation just doesn't match up very well with the shading thus leaving one wonder why.
The Stug III isnt able to fire upon the M7 despite what appears to be a good LOS




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< Message edited by Platoon_Michael -- 7/24/2012 4:25:30 PM >

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RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 7/24/2012 4:38:19 PM   
SteveMcClaire

 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the report.  I'll make a note of it for future updates.

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RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 8/30/2012 9:01:40 PM   
CSO_Talorgan


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Status: offline 		Out of interest, is this the sort of problem which the new 3D mapping system, in Panthers in the Fog, hopes to solve?

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Post #: 78
RE: Impressions - Pathfinding/Maps - 8/31/2012 9:43:21 PM   
SteveMcClaire

 

Posts: 4472
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Status: offline 		This is certainly one of the problems that a 3D engine will eliminate, yes.  You'll code terrain height by actually raising the lowering the 'ground' of the terrain itself.  So there's no way for there to be a mismatch.


(in reply to CSO_Talorgan)
Post #: 79
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